How much backing track is too much?

[MacDaddy]

On 01/04/2025 at 10:30, diskwave said:

 

 

And lastly. Everywhere I look advertising people are using old pop tunes to sell product to young people. Why?

 

 

 

 

 

Because there hasn't been any 'new' pop music for nearly 30 years.

What I mean by that is, in the 50's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 40's. in the 60's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 50's. in the 70's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 60's. in the 80's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 70's. in the 90's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 80's.

Then something happened (or didn't happen?) because after the 90's, not the case at all.

[prowla]

3 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Because there hasn't been any 'new' pop music for nearly 30 years.

What I mean by that is, in the 50's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 40's. in the 60's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 50's. in the 70's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 60's. in the 80's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 70's. in the 90's there was pop music you wouldn't have heard in the 80's.

Then something happened (or didn't happen?) because after the 90's, not the case at all.

The bubble popped!

[Bilbo]

I am not judging people wot use backing tapes, I just think it's sad that a, they have to, and b, the audiences accept it. It somehow devalues the art of music making for me. The tragedy is that, when you look on line, there are so many monster players but, when you go out to watch live music, you get half arsed shite badly performed against backing tapes. 

 

I think we deserve better (by we I mean the listening public). And don't get me started on A.I.

[TimR]

Playing multiple takes in your bedroom until you get a good recording is one thing.

 

To actually stand in front of an audience with a band takes a whole different skill set.

 

Starting with - stepping out of your bedroom. 

[BigRedX]

12 hours ago, Bilbo said:

I am not judging people wot use backing tapes, I just think it's sad that a, they have to, and b, the audiences accept it. It somehow devalues the art of music making for me. The tragedy is that, when you look on line, there are so many monster players but, when you go out to watch live music, you get half arsed shite badly performed against backing tapes. 

 

I think we deserve better (by we I mean the listening public). And don't get me started on A.I.

 

The problem is that IME most "monster" players that I see being heralded on here and similar music forums, are musically boring and wouldn't recognise a decent tune/song if it slapped them around the face.

 

As I've said before, parts that are technically challenging to play but repetitive and ultimately not very exciting for the people playing it are and have been essential components of a lot genres for the last 40 years. Maybe if my band were famous enough we could employ people to play these parts exactly as we have composed them, as well as tell them how to look and dress and STFU the rest of the time, then we'd replace the machine that does this job without complaining.

[Leonard Smalls]

19 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The problem is that IME most "monster" players that I see being heralded on here and similar music forums, are musically boring and wouldn't recognise a decent tune/song if it slapped them around the face.

I feel that "musically boring" is something that's highly debatable... It's like saying that a discussion of surface tension is chemically boring (*), or set theory is mathematically boring!

For those that relish complexity in their music, playing modal progressions in 13:8 time is musically very interesting indeed. Those same people, when hearing a simple 3 chord ditty in straight-ahead 4:4 might say it's "boring" - but that's only to them. Others may find that simplicity is what they like, and complexity is, to them, boring.

But at the end of the day it's all subjective; I personally find Oi bands to be deeply dull and like a bit of crazed widdling though an Oi fan would be the opposite to that.

Same goes for "decent tune". I mean, which is better, Donna Lee or The Birdy Song? 

As for backing "tapes", we shall continue to use 'em - though in our case it's a laptop playing Logic; our guitarman fiddles with fx and stuff on the fly.

 

* to be fair it's a bit dull, after all, the Langmuir Trough experiment was what Thatcher worked on!

[TimR]

Most bass lines become boring once you've practiced them the number of times required to wire them into muscle memory. 

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I feel that "musically boring" is something that's highly debatable... It's like saying that a discussion of surface tension is chemically boring (*), or set theory is mathematically boring!

For those that relish complexity in their music, playing modal progressions in 13:8 time is musically very interesting indeed. Those same people, when hearing a simple 3 chord ditty in straight-ahead 4:4 might say it's "boring" - but that's only to them. Others may find that simplicity is what they like, and complexity is, to them, boring.

But at the end of the day it's all subjective; I personally find Oi bands to be deeply dull and like a bit of crazed widdling though an Oi fan would be the opposite to that.

Same goes for "decent tune". I mean, which is better, Donna Lee or The Birdy Song? 

As for backing "tapes", we shall continue to use 'em - though in our case it's a laptop playing Logic; our guitarman fiddles with fx and stuff on the fly.

 

* to be fair it's a bit dull, after all, the Langmuir Trough experiment was what Thatcher worked on!

 

Yes it's all subjective...

 

But what I was trying to say is that I have no time for music where technical ability and musical complexity is at the forefront and ultimately all that the piece of music is about.

 

For me the skill is not in writing a piece in an uncommon time signature like 13:8. Anyone with a modicum of skill can do that, and most will signpost just how musically complicated their composition is. The real skill is the write a piece in 13:8 that doesn't sound like it has an unusual number of beats because the tune that holds it together is so good. Whenever I've written something in an unusual time signature it is because the tune has come first and it's only when I'm working out the drum programming that I realise it's not in 4:4

[Terry M.]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

Most bass lines become boring once you've practiced them the number of times required to wire them into muscle memory. 

Would you say that applies to every instrument then and not just bass? Or even any process that relies on muscle memory?

[TimR]

19 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Would you say that applies to every instrument then and not just bass? Or even any process that relies on muscle memory?

 

Yes.

 

You'll find that most orchestras and big bands rotate and refresh their set list frequently. I know of at least one big band that rehearses for a weeks run of gigs and then starts rehearsals with new music once the run is done.