Paid gigs for amateur musicians......?

[Dan Dare]

Much has been said about playing for payment vs. playing for the love of music. I get that, but there is an important distinction to be drawn.

 

If I can play whatever I like at times of my choosing in convivial surroundings to nice people, I am happy not to earn money from it. However, if I have to play stuff I don't care for (or even actively dislike), wear a DJ, watch the clock, put up with grief, etc, etc, I expect to be paid. The amount I expect to be paid will be directly proportional to the amount of grief I have to endure.

 

Doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Al Krow]

9 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

Much has been said about playing for payment vs. playing for the love of music. I get that, but there is an important distinction to be drawn.

 

If I can play whatever I like at times of my choosing in convivial surroundings to nice people, I am happy not to earn money from it. However, if I have to play stuff I don't care for (or even actively dislike), wear a DJ, watch the clock, put up with grief, etc, etc, I expect to be paid. The amount I expect to be paid will be directly proportional to the amount of grief I have to endure.

 

Doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

Sure. The OP excluded function bands in his original query.

 

The "grey" area where both amateur and semi-pro bands play is typically pubs - no DJs need be worn and, in my experience, considerably less grief than function work! But I'm guessing you and I would still want to be paid for doing pub gigs? I'm totally fine with that in my case - means I get to work with semi-pro musos, for whom the money is important, and which has been a privilege for me and helped me improve as a bass player.

 

Edited Monday at 13:08 by Al Krow

[martthebass]

Well I wouldn't class myself as a 'bread-head' when it comes to gigging.  However, I generally look to stay 'net-zero' at least on the finance side so that expenses and gear bought to support gigs is paid for along the line.  I've never really made much from the activity, being 40% tax bracket for many years put me off earning sufficient to interest the tax man.

Charity gigs we nearly always do pro-bono or for minimal mileage expenses if a longer hike.  For venues where they are making significantly on the exercise then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect remuneration in line with that, for venues that are more financially compromised we normally charge accordingly but don't take prisoners if they aren't active in promotion etc.

[jonnybass]

For me it depends on the reason I am in the band and what the band is being asked to do "whats in it for me". 

 

I used to play in covers/tribute bands, I would expect to get paid for these gigs I am there to play and hopefully make money.

 

At the same time I have played in a jazz trio, again this was covers, we'd rock up play standards in a pub every fortnight.  Our pay was £40 for a taxi and 6 pints (2 each).  Never expected a penny and usually the fee covered our taxis home.  I was doing this to experience playing jazz standards live.

 

Also played in originals (still do) bands, never expect payment its about playing music i want to play, and people coming is a bonus, unless someone is selling tickets with our name on it and they have sold allot (its not happened often) where I'd expect the band to be paid.  In all of these bands any money earned is put back into the band and no one ever takes a cut for themselves.

 

So to the OP I play live to get something from the gig, given how i balance my music it generally wont be money.  But before I join a band I will know 'whats in it for me' and thats why I'lll play with that band.

 

Jonny

[dave_bass5]

On 30/03/2025 at 13:12, Beedster said:

Just thinking out loud here following a conversation with a bandmate.....

 

 

 

So they're my two hobbies, playing music and playing sport. They're equivalent in many respects. I'm just wondering why that for 99% of the people i know in both, the expectation in the former is that you should be paid, the expectation in the latter is that you should pay? 

 

 

 

Hobbies cost money, and a lot of people are happy to spend a fortune on them without expecting to recoup (especially bedroom players) what they spend. Even buying the gear is part of the hobbit enjoyment. 

Ive done gigs for free and really enjoyed them, but if there is money in the pot, I want a share of it. 

[tegs07]

Having not played in a band since I was a teenager I can’t offer many pearls of wisdom other than when I ran a small business I sold stuff that other people would want to buy rather than what I loved. I expect that there is still money to be made in playing live following this philosophy. Whether it would be rewarding or creatively appealing is another matter. My first bass teacher played in a buddy holly tribute band (he loathed buddy holly) but it paid the large part of his mortgage. His originals band never made much cash but was a creatively rewarding experience.

Edited Monday at 15:09 by tegs07

[Bilbo]

A renowned guitarist once said to me, there are three reasons to gig.

1. The qualities of the music.

2. The quality of the 'hang', or

3. Good money.

One of the above is enough, two is great, three is heaven.

I think we get out of it what we put in and it will vary for all of us.

[Burns-bass]

We’ve just been offered £250, a free meal and three free drinks to play at what will be a crowded venue that I’ve always wanted to play at it with people I like and music that makes me smile.
 

This, to me, is success.

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

We’ve just been offered £250, a free meal and three free drinks to play at what will be a crowded venue that I’ve always wanted to play at it with people I like and music that makes me smile.

This, to me, is success.

 

Oddly I've just been offered a solo gig (me on acoustic guitar as opposed to bass) in a busy pub and the booker wanted loads of 80's and 90's 'bangers' £280 cash in my hand.  I politely declined despite knowing 99% of the songs suggested as I just can not be chewed with that kind of gig any more.  

 

This to me is success. 

[Al Krow]

41 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

A renowned guitarist once said to me, there are three reasons to gig.

1. The qualities of the music.

2. The quality of the 'hang', or

3. Good money.

One of the above is enough, two is great, three is heaven.

I think we get out of it what we put in and it will vary for all of us.

 

Our guitarist heard the exact same from a pro jazz drummer he knows, and I thought at the time there's much wisdom in that! Wonder who came up with that little gem originally?

 

Edited Monday at 16:24 by Al Krow

[Burns-bass]

2 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Oddly I've just been offered a solo gig (me on acoustic guitar as opposed to bass) in a busy pub and the booker wanted loads of 80's and 90's 'bangers' £280 cash in my hand.  I politely declined despite knowing 99% of the songs suggested as I just can not be chewed with that kind of gig any more.  

 

This to me is success. 

You’ve dodged a huge bullet there.

 

We’re playing in a lovely arts centre. Good crowd, good veggie food and we can basically do what we want. Sort of the opposite of the gig you’re describing.

[Norris]

No. The occasional charity gig, yes. The Dog and Duck? Never. Besides, the guitarist is pro

 

Heck, if nothing else it's self-esteem to be worth paying after the decades of practice and experience

[pete.young]

What we do has value. People don't value things that they get for free. So if you want to  protect yourself and not be treated like a carpet, you need to charge something even if money is not your motivation. You can always make a retrospective donation.

[Stub Mandrel]

Music is a passion and a hobby for me. How many things are there that you can do that bring immediate pleasure to a large group of people? Seeing an audience really enjoy a gig is my main reward.

 

Payment us about covering the expenses to be able to have those experiences.

[jonnybass]

11 minutes ago, pete.young said:

What we do has value. People don't value things that they get for free. So if you want to  protect yourself and not be treated like a carpet, you need to charge something even if money is not your motivation. You can always make a retrospective donation.

I agree but I dont always think the value is 'cash based' it may be listening and enjoying your original music for example.  

 

Jonny

[Stub Mandrel]

On 30/03/2025 at 16:06, Al Krow said:

 

It depends on the venue? Eg if 100+ punters stay an hour longer and each buy 1 or 2 pints, which certainly can be the case in several of the venues I know, the sums do add up pretty quickly. Which is why they have live bands on 2 nights a week often followed by a DJ and many such venues are doing very well. They know what they need to be doing to be a destination pub.

 

Totally appreciate that's not going to be true for all venues.

 

 

I'm very involved with a club that puts ona lot of live music. Some bands pull in enough people to make the night pay, some don't. There are some popular bands who will give a modest discount to make sure the night pays - in return we put a bucket round and this typically makes up the difference.

 

What irks most are regular punters who only buy tap water (not even a soft drink) and one (known as the seagull) who subsists only by swooping down on abandoned drinks...

[BigRedX]

6 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

What irks most are regular punters who only buy tap water (not even a soft drink)

 

Not everyone wants to drink alcohol and most soft drinks are sugary shit that's probably even worse for you. If I went to see a band I wasn't having a beer for whatever reason I probably wouldn't have anything to drink.

[Steve Browning]

31 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

What irks most are regular punters who only buy tap water (not even a soft drink) and one (known as the seagull) who subsists only by swooping down on abandoned drinks...

 

Surely you just put the price of tap water up to £5 a pint (I think it's only free when served with food), free to band members (as some drink water 'onstage'). Possibly under-investing in bar staff gives the seagull his reward.

Edited yesterday at 09:48 by Steve Browning

[jonnybass]

All licensed premises in England, Scotland and Wales are required by law to provide free water to their customers upon request.  Although they can charge for a glass and service.

[Mickeyboro]

1 hour ago, pete.young said:

What we do has value. People don't value things that they get for free. So if you want to  protect yourself and not be treated like a carpet, you need to charge something even if money is not your motivation. You can always make a retrospective donation.

Exactly. My wife hosts a twice monthly Irish session in our local for no monetary reward  and gets treated with zero respect by the venue. 

[Boodang]

I was in a band that insisted on being paid what I thought was outrageous amounts of cash... as a sign of respect for all the hours of practice they'd put in. Funny thing was they would play some venues where the audience to see them were less than the punters that would have turned up just to have a drink if they weren't there. 

My current band have put there money where their mouths is. If the venue makes more money we get paid what they think we're worth. Seems like a bad business plan but so far it's paid off quite well. 

[Boodang]

....also, just because you want to play doesn't mean people want to listen. Something a lot of amateur bands fail to take into account when they inflict themselves on an unsuspecting audience. 

A friend of mine has a band that keeps moaning about how little they get paid but I have to keep reminding him they're lucky they don't have to pay compensation to the audience for the psychological damage they cause with their dreadful playing. 

Edited yesterday at 12:16 by Boodang

[TimR]

57 minutes ago, Boodang said:

....also, just because you want to play doesn't mean people want to listen. Something a lot of amateur bands fail to take into account when they inflict themselves on an unsuspecting audience. 

A friend of mine has a band that keeps moaning about how little they get paid but I have to keep reminding him they're lucky they don't have to pay compensation to the audience for the psychological damage they cause with their dreadful playing. 

 

Many a word spoken in jest.

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Boodang said:

....also, just because you want to play doesn't mean people want to listen. Something a lot of amateur bands fail to take into account when they inflict themselves on an unsuspecting audience. 

A friend of mine has a band that keeps moaning about how little they get paid but I have to keep reminding him they're lucky they don't have to pay compensation to the audience for the psychological damage they cause with their dreadful playing. 

This is a good point. I see many 'musicians' saying how they wont play for free etc, but quite of a few of them really should as entertainment wise, they are worth bugger all 😇

[SimonK]

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

What irks most are regular punters who only buy tap water (not even a soft drink) and one (known as the seagull) who subsists only by swooping down on abandoned drinks...

 

I'd be willing to pay for the cultural experience of playing in a pub/venue like this - although I might want to stipulate at least one dog in attendance, and perhaps a domestic occuring at somepoint during the set?