Paid gigs for amateur musicians......?

[Steve Browning]

Blimey Simon. There's bound to be one where you are (and I don't say that as someone coming from Pompey - we have our own variety).

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

This is a good point. I see many 'musicians' saying how they wont play for free etc, but quite of a few of them really should as entertainment wise, they are worth bugger all 😇

 

I think that's what's called an "open mic night" 😅

[Crusoe]

2 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

This is a good point. I see many 'musicians' saying how they wont play for free etc, but quite of a few of them really should as entertainment wise, they are worth bugger all 😇

I can remember a duo in a bar once, one on keyboards, the other singing and possibly playing guitar, doing Oasis covers. The singer made Liam Gallagher sound like Pavarotti by comparison.

[tauzero]

4 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

I can remember a duo in a bar once, one on keyboards, the other singing and possibly playing guitar, doing Oasis covers. The singer made Liam Gallagher sound like Pavarotti by comparison.

 

I was on a cross-channel ferry in 1997 from Newhaven to Dieppe, and entertainment was provided by Sid and Doris Bonkers (© Private Eye) on guitar, bass, drum machine, and dubious vocals, including a ground-breaking rendition of 'Delilah' in 4/4 instead of the more conventional 3/4 time.

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

Not everyone wants to drink alcohol and most soft drinks are sugary shit that's probably even worse for you. If I went to see a band I wasn't having a beer for whatever reason I probably wouldn't have anything to drink.

 

I you get a free night's entertainment week after week, you could at least ocassionally find something to buy. The person is teetotal, but could buy a mineral water, slimline drinks or just a packet of crisps. Literally NEVER put a penny behind the bar.

[Stub Mandrel]

7 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

 

Surely you just put the price of tap water up to £5 a pint (I think it's only free when served with food), free to band members (as some drink water 'onstage'). Possibly under-investing in bar staff gives the seagull his reward.

 

Tap water is free as a courtesy. You can't have collective punishment...

 

The seagull swoops when she sees someone leaving.

[HeadlessBassist]

I can only come at this from the pro world, but people's attitudes to Musicians apply whether you're Amateur or Professional.

 

I used to live in the South West, and a young bar manager at a local pub where I was having a couple of beers with a friend suddenly mentioned to me, "I hear you're a professional musician..."

"Yes, I am." I replied.

"Wow man, you'll have to come and play for us one evening!"

"Yes, sure - book a date in the venue diary and agree a fee and I'll comer and play for you."

"Nooo maaaan! Music's free! Music's for everyone..."

"I'm sure you wouldn't expect your ****** Plumber to come and unblock your toilet for free, would you?!"

 

That's the general shape of the exchange, anyway. Basically, a lot of people don't see music as a real job. Yes, it's fantastic if you can afford to play for free as a hobby, but people often forget that to some of us, it's our job.

 

 

[HeadlessBassist]

2 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I was on a cross-channel ferry in 1997 from Newhaven to Dieppe, and entertainment was provided by Sid and Doris Bonkers (© Private Eye) on guitar, bass, drum machine, and dubious vocals, including a ground-breaking rendition of 'Delilah' in 4/4 instead of the more conventional 3/4 time.

Delilah works best if you do the verses in 3/4 and the chorus in 4/4 as a Quo style shuffle.

[Dad3353]

5 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

I can only come at this from the pro world, but people's attitudes to Musicians apply whether you're Amateur or Professional.

 

I used to live in the South West, and a young bar manager at a local pub where I was having a couple of beers with a friend suddenly mentioned to me, "I hear you're a professional musician..."

"Yes, I am." I replied.

"Wow man, you'll have to come and play for us one evening!"

"Yes, sure - book a date in the venue diary and agree a fee and I'll comer and play for you."

"Nooo maaaan! Music's free! Music's for everyone..."

"I'm sure you wouldn't expect your ****** Plumber to come and unblock your toilet for free, would you?!"

 

That's the general shape of the exchange, anyway. Basically, a lot of people don't see music as a real job. Yes, it's fantastic if you can afford to play for free as a hobby, but people often forget that to some of us, it's our job.

 

Our nearest neighbour runs a plumbing/heating business. I 'phoned him a while back, asking if he could look at our water pressure. He popped round one day when I was out, and the pressure regulator was changed (pressure restored...). No invoice, or fee. He was surprised (and pleased...) when I dropped in to offer him a bottle; he had refused the money I had offered. Sometimes there are other concerns than one's professional or otherwise status. Just sayin'. 

[Buddster]

[Burns-bass]

38 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Our nearest neighbour runs a plumbing/heating business. I 'phoned him a while back, asking if he could look at our water pressure. He popped round one day when I was out, and the pressure regulator was changed (pressure restored...). No invoice, or fee. He was surprised (and pleased...) when I dropped in to offer him a bottle; he had refused the money I had offered. Sometimes there are other concerns than one's professional or otherwise status. Just sayin'. 

I had this discussion with my daughter.

 

If you do something as a profession (I write things, for example) and someone asked me to do a job I would expect them to pay for it.
 

If I choose to do it for free, that’s on me. But the *assumption* I would do it for free is where the problem begins.

 

You and your friend have a lovely arrangement, but I understand what our headless friend was saying.

 

My friend fixed a split seam in a double bass. I offered to pay, he refused. We settled on a charity donation and a crate of artisan beer. We were all happy.

[TimR]

This is Pimlico's law. The longer a discussion goes on about musicians' pay, sooner or later someone will bring plumbers into the chat.

 

It's like Godwins law but with different kinds of tanks. 

[Wombat]

I brought plumbers in on the 1st page 🤷‍♀️

[TimR]

6 minutes ago, Wombat said:

I brought plumbers in on the 1st page 🤷‍♀️

QED.

[juice]

There’s always the ‘mates rates’ discussion where someone you vaguely know asks how much to book you for their wedding or whatever, then say ok and what would that be at ‘mates rates’. Only to look dismayed when you tell them that real mates support each other by paying what their hard work is worth!

[Stub Mandrel]

My bandmate's other band played my SO's birthday on Saturday.  They offered to do it for a silly fee, a fairer but still reduced fee was agreed. They got a bit more than they expected on the night, and all were happy.

Edited April 1 by Stub Mandrel

[Steve Browning]

11 hours ago, TimR said:

This is Pimlico's law. The longer a discussion goes on about musicians' pay, sooner or later someone will bring plumbers into the chat.

 

It's like Godwins law but with different kinds of tanks. 

But it's a perfectly valid argument and one most people can understand. 

[tegs07]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

But it's a perfectly valid argument and one most people can understand. 

Im not so sure. I don’t think anyone, anywhere, ever said I really fancy getting a plumber round tonight. It’s something people pay for only when they really have to. Similarly I can’t imagine there are many plumbers who do the work for the creative joy of installing radiators.

 

I think there are ways for musicians to make money but many of them would involve thinking more like a plumber than a creative.

 

Edit: Going to expand on this. Most of us if we practice enough can learn to play an instrument. A few of us can get very good at playing an instrument. In my experience far fewer of us can write songs that people want to hear. Even fewer can write really catchy songs that many people want to hear.

 

This is a big part of why musicians don’t always make money. If you can’t write songs you need a top notch songwriter, or you need to play other peoples music. If you’re excellent this can be jazz, classical etc where the audience is often older and more affluent. There is an established (but limited audience) out there,

 

Mass market is a little more tricky. There is a lot of competition and shrinking venues. Other avenues are function bands, tribute bands, musicals, cruises etc. 

 

I’ve seen some shocking musicians with some decent tunes get better and get a decent following. I’ve seen plenty of decent musician’s with plenty of integrity but no songs go nowhere.

Edited April 2 by tegs07

[TimR]

My plumber came round last week to service the boiler.

 

I had to take a day off work.

Made him 2 cups of tea.

He spent an hour servicing the boiler which would have taken about 30minutes if he hadn't told me his life story. 

No issues with the boiler.

 

It cost me £76.

 

The thing is, if a plumber does his job wrong, you could die of carbon monoxide poisoning, a massive gas explosion or your house could be flooded.

 

The worst most likely problem you'd get with a band is a punter trips over some gear. 

 

Or if you don't show up to a wedding you get sued for ruining the day. So write that into your contract and get insurance. 

Edited April 2 by TimR

[TimR]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

 

I think there are ways for musicians to make money but many of them would involve thinking more like a plumber than a creative.

 

All the pro musicians I know, teach. Even the ones in touring orchestras, teach when they're not touring or doing afternoon and evening performances in London. 

 

There are a few with West End show residencies. 

[EssexBuccaneer]

This has been an interesting read. My covers (pub) band won’t play for free except for a couple of regular charities we play annually.
 

We want to arrange a gig in Reading sharing the bill with a guy from work’s band, but we’re in Essex and Reading is obviously quite a trot for us. The first venue we spoke to said ‘we don’t pay bands, but can give you beer and sandwiches all night’ 🤐

[Stub Mandrel]

I know venues that will let bands gig for free and they keep door/ticket receipts. This places the onus for promotion on the band...

 

We are thinking of doing one, setting up early and using the stage and lighting to get some more 'professional' photos and video. We would keep ticket prices low in the hope of getting a decent attendance but would probably need a support or dj as well.

 

Obviously this doesn't suit pub type gigs...

[TimR]

40 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I know venues that will let bands gig for free and they keep door/ticket receipts. This places the onus for promotion on the band...

 

We are thinking of doing one, setting up early and using the stage and lighting to get some more 'professional' photos and video. We would keep ticket prices low in the hope of getting a decent attendance but would probably need a support or dj as well.

 

Obviously this doesn't suit pub type gigs...

 

When I did this in the past. I hired the hall. 

 

In my experience of doing free gigs for venues who keep the door receipts, there's usually a catch. I suspect the ticket prices will be set by them. 

[Franticsmurf]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I know venues that will let bands gig for free and they keep door/ticket receipts. This places the onus for promotion on the band..

The first few gigs I ever played had this arrangement - the venue put popular paid acts on over the weekend and allowed new bands to play for the door money Tuesday-Thursday. I doubt we would have got many/any gigs in the city centre otherwise, and it helped us build a small but loyal following. I think it also made us think more critically about what we were doing as we weren't relying on a captive audience of pub regulars and, as you say, we had to promote ourselves. We ended up up getting a couple of the much sought after weekend gigs but the band folded shortly afterwards.

Edited April 8 by Franticsmurf

[chris_b]

You can be a fantastic writer of original songs and it still doesn't guarantee you'll get you paid.

 

Tom Parker, Elvis's manager, wouldn't let Elvis record a song unless he, Parker, got 50% of the song's royalties. That was a regular scam. Elvis tried it on with Dolly Parton. He wanted to record I Will Always Love You, but only if he got 50% of the writing royalties. She told him where to go.

 

A friend got one of his songs on the BBC as a theme tune, but he had to give the producers 50%! As he said, "50% of something is better than 50% of nothing".

 

There are no end of people who want to rip musicians off, and the "playing for free" is just another scam.

Edited April 8 by chris_b