Paid gigs for amateur musicians......?

[Obrienp]

How many publicans would be happy with you asking for free beer all night in return for the great publicity? Not to say I am not very sympathetic to their issues. It’s a real struggle to break even for many and paying a band means that it has got to lead to greater takings.

 

Playing for free is fine for charities but in no other circumstances IMO. It undermines those who make a living from music and depresses the value of music in general. 

[dave_bass5]

12 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

depresses the value of music in general. 

Ive seen some bands do that without any help 😇

 

I get that a pub has to make a living as well. Having to pay out another £200-£300 extra at the end of the night, with no increase in beer sales can't be easy. Ive seen bands who have pulled in a lot of people, but ive seen many that have emptied an already half empty pub. 

A pub is a business, a band is not, its just a hobby, I dont agree with the 'see if a pub will give free bear for publicity' argument, its not the same thing at all. A band at this level has nowhere near the overheads a pub has. Ok, it could be the pubs responsibility to get people through the door, but a lot now rely on the bands pricing extra drinkers in. 

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

I get that a pub has to make a living as well. Having to pay out another £200-£300 extra at the end of the night, with no increase in beer sales can't be easy. Ive seen bands who have pulled in a lot of people, but ive seen many that have emptied an already half empty pub. 

 

 

 Last night, our jam was a bit light, only 45 or so punters. We can get between 50 and 60 on good nights. The locals tell us there could be as many as 3 drinkers in on the other Monday's, and they'd be gone by 9 o'clock. So paying a band who can build up a following for a jam night makes a lot of sense.

[dave_bass5]

24 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

 Last night, our jam was a bit light, only 45 or so punters. We can get between 50 and 60 on good nights. The locals tell us there could be as many as 3 drinkers in on the other Monday's, and they'd be gone by 9 o'clock. So paying a band who can build up a following for a jam night makes a lot of sense.

Totally agree, but it's a gamble for the venue. With one foot in the door like you have I guess its easier to get a proper gig over a band that contacts them, says they can bring in so many people, and doesn't. 

Because my band do mostly private gigs we find it very hard getting pub gigs, as we haven't got a following that will bring money in to the pub. We do a couple and do get a good turn out, but it's more that the pub is always busy anyway. 

I guess my point is that an establish band on the local scene is more likely to get paid gigs than someone just starting up and can't bring in more money for the venue. As you say, one way is to build up a following at a certain venue, but I think this is what 'exposure' means' some of the time. Personally im experienced enough to weigh up the pros and cons of playing for expose, so wont always discount it. Most of our gigs have come from people seeing us, albeit at paid gigs. That to me is where playing for exposure can work. 

[Mickeyboro]

The explosion of open mic nights has certainly helped venues to mount cheap entertainment at the expense of bands. 

[tauzero]

12 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

The explosion of open mic nights has certainly helped venues to mount cheap entertainment at the expense of bands. 

 

The open mics I go to are on Tuesdays and Wednesdays - not at major music venues either. The Tuesday one does sometimes have bands in, on a Saturday. Are you seeing a lot of Saturday night open mics in Bournemouth?

[Mickeyboro]

I take your point. Its just that as someone who has to be in a band it seems open mics, soloists with backing tracks etc seem to proliferate these days and bands are on the way out… Not the argument here, I know. 

[TimR]

If someone is organising an open night they need to be on the ball or it turns into the same 4 blokes, playing the same guitar tunes each week. With the 'organser' getting a one hour slot at the end.

 

When I've organised Jam nights I've taken everyone's name down and a list of songs. Then tried very hard to rotate people around every 2 or 3 tunes. Not easy when you're the only bass player in the village. It also helps to have good WiFi and stands for phones and Busker books. Although less people seem to be able to jam from charts now and need to the something prepared - which isn't really a jam...

Edited Tuesday at 19:37 by TimR

[mep]

On 01/04/2025 at 20:40, Wombat said:

I brought plumbers in on the 1st page 🤷‍♀️

Our plumber's company is called Page Plumbing!

[chris_b]

6 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

The explosion of open mic nights has certainly helped venues to mount cheap entertainment at the expense of bands. 

 

I know several guys running jam nights. They are always on non gigging nights and the house bands all get paid.

 

There seems to be some strange rules for jam nights around the country. On ours, the house band starts the evening off with 2 numbers and then the jammers play. It's usually well attended, so depending on how many jammers turn up the house band might not get back on.

[Stub Mandrel]

12 hours ago, TimR said:

 

When I did this in the past. I hired the hall. 

 

In my experience of doing free gigs for venues who keep the door receipts, there's usually a catch. I suspect the ticket prices will be set by them. 

 

Sorry my wording was ambiguous... it's the  BAND that keeps the ticket and door receipts andcsets the prices.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

Although less people seem to be able to jam from charts

 

A real jam is playing along to a song you've never heard before by ear 🙂

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

A real jam is playing along to a song you've never heard before by ear 🙂

 

I can do that. I call it free-form jazz.

 

Some day I must get along to a jam night. So far, all my experience in this general arena has been folk clubs (one must perform either a Folk Song written by someone else, or a song which one has written oneself about ghosts or 18th-19th century warfare or pagan symbolism, and must be listened to in absolute silence) and open mic nights (one may perform whatever the f*ck one likes, sometimes others will leap up and join in, meantime everyone is talking to each other at maximum volume). Got back from one open mic night three hours ago, finished up playing bass behind a 14 year old girl doing Sweet Child o'Mine even better than our guitarist/singer. Tomorrow, or rather tonight, I'll be at a different open mic, possibly having to listen to a guitarist who owns a bass playing the wrong notes off time - it depends on how many people ask me to play bass.

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I can do that. I call it free-form jazz.

 

Some day I must get along to a jam night. So far, all my experience in this general arena has been folk clubs (one must perform either a Folk Song written by someone else, or a song which one has written oneself about ghosts or 18th-19th century warfare or pagan symbolism, and must be listened to in absolute silence) and open mic nights (one may perform whatever the f*ck one likes, sometimes others will leap up and join in, meantime everyone is talking to each other at maximum volume). Got back from one open mic night three hours ago, finished up playing bass behind a 14 year old girl doing Sweet Child o'Mine even better than our guitarist/singer. Tomorrow, or rather tonight, I'll be at a different open mic, possibly having to listen to a guitarist who owns a bass playing the wrong notes off time - it depends on how many people ask me to play bass.

 

One of my brothers goes to folk nights.  When he lived in Scotland he went to one, a pair of girls turned up for the first time and impressed everyone with two songs. The crabby lady who ran it gave them a dressing down for singing two songs in the same key.

 

Open mics round here vary, but are pretty laid back, people talk but it's bad form to be loud and disrespectful. Players vary from beginners to professionals and the odd one who ischard to listen to. What I find hardest are the guitarist/ singers who play with lots of 'feel' (i.e. have never been in a band and are incapable of sticking to a steady tempo even if accompanied by a drummer).

 

At one it seems songs I know get performed then I get asked up and it's suddenly stuff I have no idea of... at the other I have a rep as a blues bassist and I think myself lucky to get anything not a 12 bar 🙂

[Leonard Smalls]

9 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

A real jam is playing along to a song you've never heard before by ear

 

6 hours ago, tauzero said:

I can do that. I call it free-form jazz

That's not exactly free-form jazz! That's playing by ear...

This is a touch more free-form, but not quite free-improvisation. If you need some of that. try Han Benninck, Evan Parker, Lol Coxhill (*) or Derek Bailey!

 

 

* I briefly played in a free-funk-jazz thang with some of Lol's sidekicks! Though we aimed for extended relatively straight funk jams over variously sensible and crazed saxes.

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

At one it seems songs I know get performed then I get asked up and it's suddenly stuff I have no idea of... at the other I have a rep as a blues bassist and I think myself lucky to get anything not a 12 bar 🙂

 

A lady at my regular Wednesday night one lets me know what we're playing anything between twenty minutes before and just as we're setting up. At least she has the chords on a tablet and I can read them over her shoulder (gets trickier when the tablet goes temperamental and she has to use her phone instead). At least Blind Young George lets me know what he's doing at the start of the evening so I can check out the chords if it's not a 12-bar.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, tauzero said:

 

A lady at my regular Wednesday night one lets me know what we're playing anything between twenty minutes before and just as we're setting up. At least she has the chords on a tablet and I can read them over her shoulder (gets trickier when the tablet goes temperamental and she has to use her phone instead). At least Blind Young George lets me know what he's doing at the start of the evening so I can check out the chords if it's not a 12-bar.

 

I occasionally get a novice sent my way to find a song I can play with them. Sometimes they've not played with a bass player before and it's great to see them be part of a 'band' for the first time.

[Si600]

I organised the monthly music night in our regular in West Haddon for a year.  No-one turned up after the second one.  On the last one there were quite a few people in the pub asking when the music night was going to start.  My response that it would start as soon as someone was willing to stand up and sing/play something was met with some bemusement.  "What, someone has to make an effort for us to be entertained?"