112 bass cab 4ohm?

[Freddi375]

Hi guys,

 

I'm looking for a small 4ohm 112 cab to pair with a te elf.

 

I know there is much on offer, but based on personal experiences is there any recommendations?

 

Looking for something with good lows.

 

Thank you!

Edited yesterday at 10:21 by Freddi375

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If you want 4 ohms 'to get all the watts out of my amp' that's OK if you never need more than one cab. But if you do you won't be able to, as the ELF has a minimum load of 4 ohms. 8 ohms is more practical, and easier to find. As for 'small...with good lows' those attributes are mutually exclusive, so if you're going small you have to accept that it won't go as low as a larger cab.

[Freddi375]

Thanks Bill, I have 2 x 8 ohm cabs already but looking to draw the full wattage out of the amp, so assuming a decent 112 4ohm cab will do the trick.

 

For some venues I don't want to take both cabs, and 1 of the 8ohm cabs alone is obviously not pulling the full power from the elf.

 

Thanks!

Edited yesterday at 13:21 by Freddi375

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I get that, but the flaw in your logic is that there's no benefit to pulling the full power from the Elf. All else being equal, and it never is, the difference in the potential maximum output of a 4 ohm versus 8 ohm cab with your amp is roughly 2dB. That's audible, but barely, and it assumes you actually need to pull all of the power out of the amp. You probably don't, and if for some reason you do a pair of 8 ohm cabs will go louder than one 4 ohm cab.

[Freddi375]

Thanks Bill.

 

I'm using an EBS neoline 112, which is loud enough, it's more lacking in the low end with the elf certainly compared with my much more powerful streamliner (understandably so). But then I was thinking, is this to do with the cab being 8ohm. Or will a more sensitive 8ohm do a better job of pulling through the lows. Forgive my lack of knowledge!

[tauzero]

30 minutes ago, Freddi375 said:

I'm using an EBS neoline 112, which is loud enough, it's more lacking in the low end with the elf certainly compared with my much more powerful streamliner (understandably so). But then I was thinking, is this to do with the cab being 8ohm. Or will a more sensitive 8ohm do a better job of pulling through the lows. Forgive my lack of knowledge!

 

Do you mean you get more lows using the EBS cab with the Streamliner than with the Elf, or using the Streamliner with another unspecified cab than the Elf plus EBS? If you're using the same cab for the comparison, then the difference is the amp, in which case why not just use the Streamliner?

[Freddi375]

Purely for gigs where i can get away with using the elf which slips into the bass case, something less to carry! 

 

The EBS cab works fantastic with the streamliner, but a big drop in lows with the elf. Just wondering if the elf is being underpowered for just 112 8ohm? Which then led me to think whether a 4ohm cab would do a better job. Doesn't sound like it would make much difference.

[chris_b]

What you are hearing is the difference between the Streamliner, which was designed with a big low end and the Elf which wasn't. I'm not sure any cab will make up for that difference.

[Freddi375]

Its just the low end seems to break up quite considerably at not a very high volume. Perhaps mine is faulty!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You've got a double whammy. The EBS cab is physically too small to have high sensitivity in the lows, the Elf isn't powerful enough to overcome that. The Streamliner can. I'd have no problem driving my 112 with the Elf, but my cab is nearly twice the size of yours.

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

What you are hearing is the difference between the Streamliner, which was designed with a big low end and the Elf which wasn't. I'm not sure any cab will make up for that difference.

 

A 15" Ampeg Portaflex pulls a lot more bass out of an Elf than the 2x8. I know because I tried both in PMT before I bought the Elf, and found it weak sounding through the 2x8.

 

Oddly, a year later my brother picked up  Portaflex 15 for £50(!) and ended up getting an Elf to go with it.

 

 

(Yes I know all the arguments against 15s but this particular combination sounds great for the sort of music I play).

[BassmanPaul]

Playing the instrument that we do we have to constantly fight against the laws of Physics. it sucks but that's the way it is!

 

[Downunderwonder]

Put the streamliner in a backpack. Then you're not carrying it.  Problem solved.

Edited 8 hours ago by Downunderwonder

[SimonK]

20 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

I get that, but the flaw in your logic is that there's no benefit to pulling the full power from the Elf. All else being equal, and it never is, the difference in the potential maximum output of a 4 ohm versus 8 ohm cab with your amp is roughly 2dB. That's audible, but barely, and it assumes you actually need to pull all of the power out of the amp. You probably don't, and if for some reason you do a pair of 8 ohm cabs will go louder than one 4 ohm cab.

 

Was just thinking about this - so what is ever the benefit of having a 4 ohm cab?

[Stub Mandrel]

29 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

Was just thinking about this - so what is ever the benefit of having a 4 ohm cab?

 

When you are certain you don't want to run two cabs... so when it's a big(ger) cab.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Valve amps can work better with lower impedance loads, depending on the output transformer load rating.

[SimonK]

52 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

When you are certain you don't want to run two cabs... so when it's a big(ger) cab.

 

But that's no reason for a 4 ohm cab - you may as well just have a bunch of 8 ohm cabs and only take one!

 

16 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Valve amps can work better with lower impedance loads, depending on the output transformer load rating.

 

So what does "work" mean - more headroom?

[casapete]

16 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Valve amps can work better with lower impedance loads, depending on the output transformer load rating.

Yup- for example Ampeg SVT valve heads which usually run at either 4 or 2 ohms. 

[Freddi375]

I guess my main point and question is, if any amp is underpowering the cab, which i guess the elf running a 300w 8hm cab will be, then surely it will give more power and lows to a 300w 4ohm cab?

[Stub Mandrel]

12 minutes ago, SimonK said:

But that's no reason for a 4 ohm cab - you may as well just have a bunch of 8 ohm cabs and only take one!

 

No, I knew I wanted one 2x12 cab and since getting it have passed on one of my old 8R 2x12s and taken the other apart. I have no desire to go back to using two of them, the only motivation would be to have something more 'stack like' for certain genres,  in which case a dummy cab would work just as well. The only benefit of an 8R cab would be making it slightly easier for me to control stage volume.

 

Now I am considering a 1x10, in which case I probably will go 8R as I could see potential to double it up for a small but portable setup.

[neepheid]

The only 4 ohm cab I've ever owned was a 4x10.  I knew damn well I wasn't going to augment that with anything!

[casapete]

35 minutes ago, neepheid said:

The only 4 ohm cab I've ever owned was a 4x10.  I knew damn well I wasn't going to augment that with anything!

I think the appearance of more efficient / sensitive cabs in recent years has made the 4 / 8 ohm 

argument pretty redundant. When I got my Barefaced Compact I was concerned a single 8ohm

cab wouldn’t cut it in a live situation - glad to say I was soon proved wrong!

[SimonK]

5 minutes ago, casapete said:

I think the appearance of more efficient / sensitive cabs in recent years has made the 4 / 8 ohm 

argument pretty redundant. When I got my Barefaced Compact I was concerned a single 8ohm

cab wouldn’t cut it in a live situation - glad to say I was soon proved wrong!

 

Yes I think that's my experience as well - I had a 4ohm 4x10 for a while but ditched it in favour of having a bunch of 8ohm cabs that I can mix and match at will. For me having a selection of speaker combinations all at 8 ohms is far more useful and convenient.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

2 hours ago, Freddi375 said:

I guess my main point and question is, if any amp is underpowering the cab, which i guess the elf running a 300w 8hm cab will be, then surely it will give more power and lows to a 300w 4ohm cab?

Not enough to make it worthwhile. And it's not underpowering the cab per se. It just lacks sufficient power to overcome the cab's poor sensitivity in the lows. You're fighting against Hoffman's Iron Law. It's a futile effort. 

[Freddi375]

Thanks Bill, I appreciate your help.