PA for rock band

[jezzaboy]

A few weeks back I posted a rambling post about a change of pa for my band which didn`t make much sense to me or those who replied to it .

 

Here is the scenario. AC/DC covers band, lead vocals and 2 backing vocals, loud drummer and 2 Marshall valve amp guitar players. Most times we use supplied pa but we do our own gigs in small/medium pubs, halls etc. At the moment I have 2 x Yamaha DBR 12`s that I have the vocals and a small bit of drum and bass going through. I would like to put more bass and drums through the pa but am reluctant to do this with the current set up. I have seen some bands in my local and they use a sub and it makes a big difference even in a small space.

 

I`m thinking of selling the Yamaha`s and replacing them with a sub and smaller speakers. The issue`s I have are limited storage and transport space and budget, I don`t want to spend thousands on kit I may only use 4 or 5 times a year.

 

I was looking at this set up: RCF 702 AS MK3 sub and Alto TS 408 tops. This all comes in at just over £1200. I will be buying the kit myself so don`t want to go much more than that but may be able to stretch to 10" tops if that would be better.

 

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/RCF-SUB-702-AS-MK3-12-Active-PA-Subwoofer/5ZG7

 

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Alto-Professional-TS408-2000-Watt-Active-PA-Speaker/52X8?origin=product-ads&gad_source=1

 

Or I have a RCF 715 top that I used to use for a bass amp and I could buy another one of these and stick everything through these but I`m not sure if this is the best option.? I have never used a sub before so have zero experience of a sub plus top set up so any advice would be welcome.

 

Edit

 

Just thought of another option. Keep the Yams and just buy the sub and get the others to take a speaker each?

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:56 by jezzaboy

[Dan Dare]

DBRs are very decent budget PA cabs. No point in selling them and making a sideways move to something like Altos. They're not excessively large/heavy, so you'll save little carrying effort by replacing them with smaller tops. You're on a budget, so you want to get the most bang for your buck. You never get back much selling used PA gear, so stick with what you have and augment it.

 

I'd look at adding a quality sub to your DBRs. With the need to deal with LF removed from them by the sub, you can drive the DBRs harder and they should give a good account of themselves and be quite adequate for the use you describe. In your shoes, I'd get a sub plus an active crossover (unless your mixer or existing speakers already have the facility to do the job).

 

Buy the best sub you can afford. A single quality sub beats a pair of cheapos. The Yamaha DXR PA speakers (the next step up from the DBRs) are very good. The DXS15 sub is around £850 and is well-reviewed.

 

Edited to add. If you are tight on storage space, offload your RCF 715 and stash the sub in its place. A decent sub will make it redundant.

Edited Sunday at 13:29 by Dan Dare

[Pirellithecat]

On 06/04/2025 at 14:18, Dan Dare said:

DBRs are very decent budget PA cabs. No point in selling them and making a sideways move to something like Altos. They're not excessively large/heavy, so you'll save little carrying effort by replacing them with smaller tops. You're on a budget, so you want to get the most bang for your buck. You never get back much selling used PA gear, so stick with what you have and augment it.

 

I'd look at adding a quality sub to your DBRs. With the need to deal with LF removed from them by the sub, you can drive the DBRs harder and they should give a good account of themselves and be quite adequate for the use you describe. In your shoes, I'd get a sub plus an active crossover (unless your mixer or existing speakers already have the facility to do the job).

 

Buy the best sub you can afford. A single quality sub beats a pair of cheapos. The Yamaha DXR PA speakers (the next step up from the DBRs) are very good. The DXS15 sub is around £850 and is well-reviewed.

 

Edited to add. If you are tight on storage space, offload your RCF 715 and stash the sub in its place. A decent sub will make it redundant.

Completely agree.  A single sub makes a huge difference - I added a RCF 705 to my band's set up and was really surprised about the positive effect across the whole sound spectrum.  As it acts as a stand for one of the tops it doesn't add to the stage "footprint".   There's a B Stock RCF 905 for sale  - https://www.simplysoundandlighting.co.uk/products/rcf-sub-905-as-ii-subwoofer-15-1100w-bass-speaker-active-dj-disco-sound-system-b-stock?variant=49594894188864&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Simply Sound and Lighting Shopify&utm_content=RCF SUB 905-AS II Subwoofer 15" 1100W Bass Speaker Active DJ Disco Sound System *B-Stock&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=22281502317&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwktO_BhBrEiwAV70jXkjwUKaUvS2OyeGipeIrP6MAbuTof9NCuEAwb-7GmCZywUfCANnqzhoCUvkQAvD_BwE.    And that would give you £300 change from your £1200 budget...........  A single sub is probably all you'll need! 

[Phil Starr]

On 06/04/2025 at 14:18, Dan Dare said:

DBRs are very decent budget PA cabs. No point in selling them and making a sideways move to something like Altos. They're not excessively large/heavy, so you'll save little carrying effort by replacing them with smaller tops. You're on a budget, so you want to get the most bang for your buck. You never get back much selling used PA gear, so stick with what you have and augment it.

 

I'd look at adding a quality sub to your DBRs. With the need to deal with LF removed from them by the sub, you can drive the DBRs harder and they should give a good account of themselves and be quite adequate for the use you describe. In your shoes, I'd get a sub plus an active crossover (unless your mixer or existing speakers already have the facility to do the job).

 

Buy the best sub you can afford. A single quality sub beats a pair of cheapos. The Yamaha DXR PA speakers (the next step up from the DBRs) are very good. The DXS15 sub is around £850 and is well-reviewed.

 

Edited to add. If you are tight on storage space, offload your RCF 715 and stash the sub in its place. A decent sub will make it redundant.

I'm going to agree too. You can build a nice sounding PA around the DBR's.

 

I went for the two 15's route with a couple of RCF 745's. It works in that I can do just about any gig with just a pair of speakers and they sound fabulous but in small venues they are completely over the top and obscure the stage. Lifting them onto the poles is starting to wear thin as is the load in and out. I can't say I'm unhappy with them as the sound is just glorious but if I had my time again I'd probably go for a single sub with smaller tops. The DBR's would probably handle the smaller pubs without a sub too so you'd have options.

[mike257]

Going from your current speakers to a pair of 8 inch Altos would be a significant downgrade that I wouldn't recommend. 

 

 

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

I'm going to agree too. You can build a nice sounding PA around the DBR's.

 

I went for the two 15's route with a couple of RCF 745's. It works in that I can do just about any gig with just a pair of speakers and they sound fabulous but in small venues they are completely over the top and obscure the stage. Lifting them onto the poles is starting to wear thin as is the load in and out. I can't say I'm unhappy with them as the sound is just glorious but if I had my time again I'd probably go for a single sub with smaller tops. The DBR's would probably handle the smaller pubs without a sub too so you'd have options.

 

Agreed. Putting large boxes on poles is a chore and they block the view of the band. You need quality heavy duty stands with a wide footprint if you want to avoid the risk of one being knocked over and squashing someone, too.

[warwickhunt]

I sourced and use a PA similar to your suggestions, for use with our pub/club rock covers band.  I elected (after much research and questioning, especially of fellow BCers) to buy a pair of lightly used QSC K10 (active version 1) speakers and a used FBT 15" active sub (with an A&H CQ12 desk).  It is more than capable of handling the whole band inc my bass with zero backline for me.  I've never found it lacking in anything but the largest 'club' rooms; where I 'possibly' could have overcome with a 2nd sub.

 

Using HPF on the whole PA + further filtering on some instruments has been a revelation.  30 - 40 years ago I'd never have considered taking out the lowest lows in my bass rig or PA... why would you take out bass?    However, the extra punch and clarity I now get with the use of HPFs is superb.  The A&H desk allows me to parametrically EQ individual channels and the whole sound, likewise HPFs available on every channel.

 

The added benefit/bonus is that the QSC K10s makes an excellent vocal and/or bass monitor (I've used a single QSC10, with a preamp pedal as my bass rig on many occasions).  

Edited yesterday at 08:52 by warwickhunt

[WinterMute]

Can't recommend QSC K12.2 speakers highly enough, with or without a sub, been using a single one for my 5 string rig for a while now and it's flawless with the Quad Cortex, sounds great for monitoring too.

 

The QSC subs are pricy mind, but I can echo what others have said about a single sub in smaller venues.

 

TBF, the K12.2 has some proper kick in the LF anyway. Not a big cab or a heavy lift if you're using poles and is stable on its end or as a wedge monitor.

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

I sourced and use a PA similar to your suggestions, for use with our pub/club rock covers band.  I elected (after much research and questioning, especially of fellow BCers) to buy a pair of lightly used QSC K10 (active version 1) speakers and a used FBT 15" active sub (with an A&H CQ12 desk).  It is more than capable of handling the whole band inc my bass with zero backline for me.  I've never found it lacking in anything but the largest 'club' rooms; where I 'possibly' could have overcome with a 2nd sub.

 

Using HPF on the whole PA + further filtering on some instruments has been a revelation.  30 - 40 years ago I'd never have considered taking out the lowest lows in my bass rig or PA... why would you take out bass?    However, the extra punch and clarity I now get with the use of HPFs is superb.  The A&H desk allows me to parametrically EQ individual channels and the whole sound, likewise HPFs available on every channel.

 

The added benefit/bonus is that the QSC K10s makes an excellent vocal and/or bass monitor (I've used a single QSC10, with a preamp pedal as my bass rig on many occasions).  

Great advice too. QSC and FBT are both great brands as are Yamaha and RCF. I've committed to the RCF745's for the immediate future with my band but also use RCF 310's in my quite noisy duo. I've done band gigs with them and a sub as an experiment and that went well but the vocal clarity of the 745's is outstanding. I'm toying with the idea of upgrading the 310's to 910's with a view to doing all my gigs with RCF 910's plus a sub though. I gigged for about four years with a previous band using QSC K12-2's without a sub and didn't need my bass stack ever. K12's are pretty heavy though, depending upon your age and fitmness