Slap - huh?

[thepurpleblob]

I rashly decided that I'd like to have a crack at slap bass. Got Ed Friedland's DVD and noted his complicated left hand muting that he doesn't even mention... anyway...

I'm really stuck... when I slap an open string it's rubbish 50/50 if I hit the string/fresh air/next string/the cat but it sounds like the note. However, when I fret and slap I don't get the fundamental I get the octave up. Weird. Ever time... *ping* the octave higher than the note I play. What the hell am I doing wrong??

[steve]

can you do a video of you playing? the only thing I can think of (but i'm no slapper ) is that your slapping the string over a harmonic, or maybe not hitting the string cleanly and damping the fundamental?

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='steve' post='507847' date='Jun 7 2009, 11:18 PM']can you do a video of you playing? the only thing I can think of (but i'm no slapper ) is that your slapping the string over a harmonic, or maybe not hitting the string cleanly and damping the fundamental?[/quote]

I'm definitely not hitting the string cleanly It's probably all it is.... just need to keep at it until I start to bleed or Ed gets thrown out of the window!

[YouMa]

Im afraid its just practice mate, im having the same fun with double thumbing at the moment,good luck.

[Thunderthumbs]

Could be that you're not releasing your thumb from the string quick enough, therefore creating a harmonic with your thumb.

As Steve has said, a video might be a better way to look at your technique.

That being said, like any other technique, patience is the key. Keep at it, and it will improve.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='507894' date='Jun 8 2009, 12:38 AM']....., patience is the key. Keep at it, and it will improve.[/quote]


<cough>

<splutter>

Thirty freakin' years! Seriously, I've been trying to learn this technique since I first picked up a bass in my mid teens, and absolutely cannot do it. I don't mean I'm not very good. I mean I just can't do it. At all.

To the OP: Maybe it's just not for you, mate. There are some things that some people simply can't do. If you're anything like me, you absolutely will not accept this! Keep trying! Good luck!

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='507952' date='Jun 8 2009, 08:52 AM']<cough>

<splutter>

Thirty freakin' years! Seriously, I've been trying to learn this technique since I first picked up a bass in my mid teens, and absolutely cannot do it. I don't mean I'm not very good. I mean I just can't do it. At all.

To the OP: Maybe it's just not for you, mate. There are some things that some people simply can't do. If you're anything like me, you absolutely will not accept this! Keep trying! Good luck! [/quote]

Yeh - I can't play with a pick! I've tried everything and I just can't keep hold of the damn things. I'll give the slap thing a fair crack. These instructional DVDs have a lot to answer for. It's all "just do this", when what they actually mean is "you'll have to spend weeks getting the slap action down and I don't even want to mention the stuff I'm doing with my right hand to damp the other strings" Then...... you can move from the E string to the A string.....

[Pete Academy]

Unfortunately, slap bass takes a lot of practice to get right, especially in achieving a clean note with the thumb. I would just keep at it...you should get there eventually.

There's another really good DVD out there, called The Slap Bass Program by Alex somebody. He goes into an amazing amount of detail. Most of the first part is spent just on the thumbing hand, so I reckon it will help a great deal.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='507894' date='Jun 8 2009, 12:38 AM']Could be that you're not releasing your thumb from the string quick enough, therefore creating a harmonic with your thumb.[/quote]

Yep. I won't pretend for a moment that I'm an expert at slap, but I do a fairly good impression of it as long as it's simple stuff like Ashes to Ashes.

The movement pretty much all comes from rotation of the wrist. The trick is in keeping the wrist loose enough that the thumb bounces off the string.

[51m0n]

OK OK, calm down everyone.

It does take practice, but if you are doing it right you'll get 80% success on a simple thump in less than half an hour (thirty years, who has been teaching you?). Really!

First thing, have you ever watched the innards of a piano?

If not then it may surprise you to discover that the string is struck by a felt covered wooden hammer.

The hammer strikes the string as hard as you strike the key, but (and this is the key to a loud note with a solid fundamental), it rebounds immediately off the string.

Your thumb is the hammer when slapping.

So you must strike the string and immediately rebound off it so that no part of your thumb is touching the string after the strike to cause a harmonic to sound. The bonus side effect is you are ready for the next thump sooner. This is best achieved with a bass with a low-ish action (doesnt need to be silly low mind)

Next thing to bear in mind, you need to strike directly over the last fret and with enough energy to just make the string touch that fret. No more is required to cleanly slap, although some players (IMO wrongly) use far more energy to slap the string than necessary.

The key is the speed of your thumb, not the force. I've got loads of students slapping who said they couldnt with the following little exercise...

To learn the slapping action do the following (without a bass on):-

1 make a (very) relaxed fist with your thumping hand (i'll refer to it as RH from now on, sorry all you lefties).
2 pull your thumb up toward perpendicular to your palm/fist (a loose 'thumbs up')
3 rotate your wrist/ forearm back and forth through about 90 degres of roatation - keep your thumb relaxed, the tip should flick about pretty rapidly.
4 make a fist with you left hand in front of your chest, bring your rapidly rotating left hand up to it such that your completely relaxed RH thumb is striking the knuckle of your LH index finger (which is now mimicking that point of the string you want to thump over the last fret) with the joint of the first segment of your thumb (theres a crease on your thumb there). It should make a clear thunk sound.

Now strap your bass on, and repeat but this time mute all but the E string with your left hand and bring your flailing RH thumb up to your bass such that it is hitting the E over the last fret. Voila, slapping.

Now you have to practice your accuracy....

Then there is popping (for which extend your middle or index RH finger enough to catch a string - D or G usually, sometime both for chords - whilst rotating your thumb away from the just thumped string).

And double thumbing where your thumb doesnt rebound but strikes through the string and catches it again on the way back. Which is a fair bit trickier!

Edited June 8, 2009 by 51m0n

[Doddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='507961' date='Jun 8 2009, 09:14 AM']There's another really good DVD out there, called The Slap Bass Program by Alex somebody.[/quote]

.........Alexis Sklarevski.

It sounds to me like you are striking the string over a harmonic 'node' point similar to a tapped harmonic.
It's hard to explain with out demonstrating,but you need to hit the string hard enough so that it hits the upper fret. I find that
hitting the string too lightly results in a harmonic-this is especially noticeable on the higher strings.
I disagree with the notion that it is about the speed of the thumb and not the force,as it is possible to hit the string fast and light and result in
a flurry of tapped harmonics-there has to be enough force to to prevent this,although not too hard. Your thumb should naturally rebound of
the string.
I also wouldn't advise practising by slapping your left hand finger- every 10 minutes you spend doing this,is 10 minutes you
could have spent on the bass.

I don't mean to disagree with 51m0n,but these are a few things which I find work better for me.
No offence meant

[thepurpleblob]

Thanks for everybody's advice. I get the message. Keep at it until it comes right

I'll start by trying to get one slap right, then two....... that always worked for everything else!

[51m0n]

[quote name='Doddy' post='508321' date='Jun 8 2009, 04:42 PM'].........Alexis Sklarevski.

It sounds to me like you are striking the string over a harmonic 'node' point similar to a tapped harmonic.
It's hard to explain with out demonstrating,but you need to hit the string hard enough so that it hits the upper fret. I find that
hitting the string too lightly results in a harmonic-this is especially noticeable on the higher strings.
I disagree with the notion that it is about the speed of the thumb and not the force,as it is possible to hit the string fast and light and result in
a flurry of tapped harmonics-there has to be enough force to to prevent this,although not too hard. Your thumb should naturally rebound of
the string.
I also wouldn't advise practising by slapping your left hand finger- every 10 minutes you spend doing this,is 10 minutes you
could have spent on the bass.

I don't mean to disagree with 51m0n,but these are a few things which I find work better for me.
No offence meant[/quote]

None taken!

The point I was trying to make is that if you take away the bass and just show people the action, a lot of the time they get what they are trying to achieve physically and can (and should) take that to the bass.

WRT to speed vs force. I did say you need enough force to strike the string onto the fret, it's a surprisingly small amount on a well set up instrumetn. What you dont need is to be generating huge blisters on your thumb, or need a load of pretentious tape/superglue to cope with the beating you are giving your instrument and yourself. It doesnt help and you wont sound better for it.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='51m0n' post='508395' date='Jun 8 2009, 06:05 PM']WRT to speed vs force. I did say you need enough force to strike the string onto the fret,[/quote]

Is that really necessary? I always thought it was the action of the thumb hitting the string itself that sounded the note...

[lowdown]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='508833' date='Jun 9 2009, 09:55 AM']Is that really necessary? I always thought it was the action of the thumb hitting the string itself that sounded the note...[/quote]

I agree.
Also bearing in mind open strings come into the equation.

Garry

[51m0n]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='508833' date='Jun 9 2009, 09:55 AM']Is that really necessary? I always thought it was the action of the thumb hitting the string itself that sounded the note...[/quote]

Well that's how I do it

If you are going at it then unless you have a daft action (v high) you will find the string does hit the fret if you look closely, and I play as light as I can even when slapping, without being daft about it. A thumb flailing around like that (ie relaxed and being rotated by your wrist) has a fair amount of mometum after all.

I also think a lot of the nature of the slap sound does come from that strike against the fret. Have a listen to the first track on my myspace page, the verse is all slapped, as is the middle 8, that sound comes in part from the way the thumb strikes the string down onto the fret IMO & IME, if I play so lightly as to not hit the fret the sound is different, not so bright and punchy...

As an aside, you can tell if a bass has been played slap style a lot by checking the wear on the last fret under the E string, they usually get mullered after a few years (my Vester is a case in point, absolutely ground away) - even the pickup covers can get obvious wear and tear from slapping that no other style of playing produces.

Edited June 9, 2009 by 51m0n

[dlloyd]

The main reason I ask is that I get no discernable difference in the thumbed notes when I play fretless. Popped notes are a different matter!

[51m0n]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='508955' date='Jun 9 2009, 12:38 PM']

The main reason I ask is that I get no discernable difference in the thumbed notes when I play fretless. Popped notes are a different matter![/quote]

Really?

I do, very obvious the fretless just doesnt have the brightness from the string hitting the fret, back in the day you used to get the odd fretless bass with a brass slap plate at the end of the neck, partly to take the wear and save the fingerboard, but also to try and get that added zing to the slap. Nice!

[dlloyd]

[quote name='51m0n' post='508982' date='Jun 9 2009, 01:08 PM']Really?

I do, very obvious the fretless just doesnt have the brightness from the string hitting the fret, back in the day you used to get the odd fretless bass with a brass slap plate at the end of the neck, partly to take the wear and save the fingerboard, but also to try and get that added zing to the slap. Nice![/quote]

Looking at my bass last night... right enough, there's some wear to the cyanoacrylate on the E string side of the fingerboard.

It's difficult to tell exactly what happens when I'm hitting the string, because the movement is so fast, but I [i]think[/i] it is hitting the fingerboard.

[Beedster]

Some good stuff above.

Probably obvious but your bass, the strings and the setup DO make a big difference. I can play slap stuff - albeit somewhat badly - on my current fretted bass that I simply can't play on other basses (I think the previous owner's set-up was probably done with slap in mind). On the basis that my slap tone now sounds OK we've decided to do a pretty tricky Chili's number. Having nailed it on my new bass, I sat down to play it on another bass last night and simply couldn't. Strings were slightly heavier, action slightly higher, neck a different radius (I find flatter necks easier to slap on). I guess what I'm saying is don't flog a dead horse, make sure your bass is up to it!

[51m0n]

Good point Beedster.

My 4 banger has been referred to as set up for slap by every blues player to come near it. In that it is strung with 40->100 DR Lo-Riders, and has a nice low action they could be right. But I wouldnt insist this was a slap set up, just decent low-ish action. A badly set up bass or one with a high action is just harder to play full stop, but I think this does tend to show up more with slap than anything else....

The Roscoe has 45->125 on it, and a far lower action, but the strings (currently the stock d'addario ones) are far stiffer than DRs so its generally harder to play. Swapping them out later this week in preparation for an audition on Monday - that way if it causes rattling I'll be able to sort it in time, meanwhile the stiff strings are a great work out

[chilisfan16]

i'll tell you what i do when slapping, you said you accidently hit other strings sometimes?

to counter this, use the tip of the finger used to fret the string you are slapping to just lightly touch the bottom of the string above it, which basicly mutes it. so if you accidently hit it, there isnt any real sound to be heard from it if you hit the intended string aswell.

and for the string below it, this should be pretty obvious, just use your palm/bottom length of fretting finger to mute them. i find this really helpful when performing agressive slap when your thumb can be moving at a high speed, and hitting another string accidently can happen easily, especially if you are using the popping technique with the slap.

which chilis song is it you've decided to do?

i cover alot of chilis stuff, stone cold bush, blackeyed blonde etc, and i think the bass boomer strings flea uses really emphasises the slap tone.

and they do last.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Beedster' post='509987' date='Jun 10 2009, 10:49 AM']Some good stuff above.

Probably obvious but your bass, the strings and the setup DO make a big difference. I can play slap stuff - albeit somewhat badly - on my current fretted bass that I simply can't play on other basses (I think the previous owner's set-up was probably done with slap in mind). On the basis that my slap tone now sounds OK we've decided to do a pretty tricky Chili's number. Having nailed it on my new bass, I sat down to play it on another bass last night and simply couldn't. Strings were slightly heavier, action slightly higher, neck a different radius (I find flatter necks easier to slap on). I guess what I'm saying is don't flog a dead horse, make sure your bass is up to it![/quote]

Interestingly... I picked up my G&L 5 string and found it much easier to get the sound but *much* harder to hit the right string. On my Stingray it's just a nightmare. Odd that. I'll try some new strings on it I think.

[oksocialbass]

Try watching a few different players on YouTube. I'd suggest the following: Les Claypool, Flea, Doug Wimbish, Ryan Martinie and Wooten.

They all have different slap styles and hand positions (Wimbish taps almost but has the action so low and the strings so bright that it sounds like a gun at times). I took ages to learn to slap because I had a Stu Hamm instructional DVD and just find the "proper" slap position too hard to work with. I slap using flea's style and can (without sounding big headed hopefully) beat the daylights out of my bass and do some cool stuff. It is a bit harder to do some techniques like double thumping or even treble thumbing though - but they sound a bit too muso at times and don't suit many occasions.

A lot of people take the michael out of fleas style as it is quite primitive - but it leaves your hand in an idieal position to play fingerstyle and interchange between a lot of different techniques I find. I like it because it is more aggressive sounding and compensate for not using double thumb stuff by mixing up a load of muting in between and have been able to create my own quite unique style.

My 2 cents...

[thepurpleblob]

Update...

After a few days trying it's starting to come together - a bit. I'm still very hit and miss. Mostly miss. The big problem now is that I can only practice for about 10 minutes before my shoulder gives out. I had tendonitis in my shoulder a few years ago and it wasn't funny, so I don't want to push my luck.

Basically, it's just really difficult. Oh well!