Ray Brown's bass method

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[quote name='endorka' post='513165' date='Jun 14 2009, 10:08 AM']I agree 100%, I also play the instrument this way, as per my avatar. The stool I use is this one;

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/km_14052_stehhilfe.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/km_14052_stehhilfe.htm[/url]

For travelling on the underground etc. it fits into (and onto!) this rucksack;

[url="http://www.highlander1.com/Rucksacks/Day_sacks/SUMMIT35.html"]http://www.highlander1.com/Rucksacks/Day_sacks/SUMMIT35.html[/url]

Jennifer[/quote]

Hi Jennifer

Great idea thanks for that, i will try out some drum stools when i'm in the west end next.

I have orderd the improvisers bass book from the states, so look forward to getting stuck into it.

Many thanks
Marti

[wulf]

[quote name='rslaing' post='512001' date='Jun 12 2009, 10:58 AM']I disagree.........I bought the 2 Simandl books (when I read Pastorius raving about them!) and the first one obviously starts with the most primitive and elementary aspects of playing and reading music. The second book takes you through to the highest levels of playing.

Although I have still not learned to read tenor clef proficiently.

The Simandl stuff is highly recommended by most teachers and professionals, why do you think it seems unnecessarily mystifying?[/quote]
I think it would be wonderful if it explained why the particular positions had been chosen. My working theory is that it is based on the position of natural notes on the A string (1 pos = B, 2 pos = C, 3 pos = D, etc), which might related to A being the highest string on a cello. I appreciate the need for careful thought on positioning but why did Simandl choose his particular scheme?

Also, I'm not convinced that a beginner needs to get into territory like double-flats or play exercises that are so chromatic they sound atonal. Almost all instrumental methods seem to start with teaching a few notes that can quickly be used to play simple tunes and then build up through concepts like scales; Simandl seems to assume that you've got a good grasp on music and just want an exhaustive guide to all possible combinations of notes, beginning from the area that involves the greatest degree of stretching.

I'm not saying it is a waste of time but I think I would have found it mystifying and offputting if I hadn't gleaned an understanding of music from plenty of other sources over the previous 20+ years.

Wulf

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='wulf' post='516301' date='Jun 17 2009, 11:59 AM']I think it would be wonderful if it explained why the particular positions had been chosen. My working theory is that it is based on the position of natural notes on the A string (1 pos = B, 2 pos = C, 3 pos = D, etc), which might related to A being the highest string on a cello. I appreciate the need for careful thought on positioning but why did Simandl choose his particular scheme?

Also, I'm not convinced that a beginner needs to get into territory like double-flats or play exercises that are so chromatic they sound atonal. Almost all instrumental methods seem to start with teaching a few notes that can quickly be used to play simple tunes and then build up through concepts like scales; Simandl seems to assume that you've got a good grasp on music and just want an exhaustive guide to all possible combinations of notes, beginning from the area that involves the greatest degree of stretching.

I'm not saying it is a waste of time but I think I would have found it mystifying and offputting if I hadn't gleaned an understanding of music from plenty of other sources over the previous 20+ years.

Wulf[/quote]
Hi Wulf
I suppose I'm biased re Simandl as it was the method I was taught from age 15 when I took up the bass having already studied violin for 7 years and self taught guitar from age 12. So I already had a good grasp of reading and theory.
Having said all that, I've used this book to teach many bass students over the years - admittedly mostly DB - and never found any real problems with it.

I agree that the introduction of double sharps and flats may seem a little out of place if you only want to play jazz (and I'm not demeaning the jazz players - I'm one myself !), but these accidentals do appear in many pieces of standard rep so it pays to at least have some knowledge of them.

As to the position naming - yes it does sometimes appear rather obtuse having intermediate positions and "half" position - but these are only names after all. Once you are conversant with position changing, you can actually forget what they are called and just play.

The main reason I like Simandl is that the early exercises are a nice mix of scales and arpeggios - in fact you can virtually write the chord sequence under each piece.

As to your comment "Simandl seems to assume that you've got a good grasp on music and just want an exhaustive guide to all possible combinations of notes, beginning from the area that involves the greatest degree of stretching" - actually if you find playing in the half position to be too much of a stretch then I would suggest that the bass is too big for the player.
And surely a knowledge of how to play "all possible combinations of notes" is exactly what a good player needs.

Another plus point - Simandl starts with mainly minims and crotchets and only slowly introduces quavers, semis and syncopations, making it easy for the student to grasp the basics before things hot up.

But my main comment to you Wulf is that this method was written to be used in the teacher/pupil scenario - and, despite all the on-line help you can get these days, and all the self teaching videos, books, and magazine articles etc etc - you still can't beat the old one to one with a good teacher. I've just recently started teaching a 26 year old guy who has been playing (self taught) for 3 years - he's doing OK - plays with several combos around Manchester, is off to Glastonbury to play with an up and coming singer songwriter - BUT we've made more progress in 3 lessons than he did in 3 years working on his own! (BTW - I limit my teaching these days to only those students who show total commitment - I'm too busy playing to want to waste time on vanity players!)
Yes I would agree that you have to figure some stuff out for yourself - (nobody taught me the blues scale .. I discovered it for myself listening to Eric Clapton with the Yardbirds) but to have help from somebody who truly knows what they are doing is invaluable (well about £30 an hour actually).

Simandl isn't for everybody I suppose - but I've not seen many other methods that I could recommend.

The Major

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I have been slowly working my way through the Ray Brown book and am now up to "Scales on other strings" working through these has given me exactly what I was looking for, systematic fingerings for scales across the neck that help intonation, I am slowly creeping up to an F# on the G string and my tuning has very much improved, and have been using the bow too, tonight I will be venturing into thumb position, so I think so far for me, with some blind faith and perseverance with the book, I have begun to get exactly what I needed and am really excited about what other revelations lay in store.

I havent found the rather odd practice of the chromatic aproach off putting now I am used to it, it keeps me on my toes actually and stops the auto pilot "playing scales mode" kicking in as I have to remember what key theyre in and try and read them as such, I'm also practising speaking the name of the note as I play.

[Major-Minor]

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Your enthusiasm is a credit to you and shines out from your posts. Keep up the good work and let us know how you progress. But I still think you would benefit from some decent lessons. Keep searching for the right teacher.

The Major

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[quote name='Major-Minor' post='517189' date='Jun 18 2009, 09:48 AM']SubAudio
Your enthusiasm is a credit to you and shines out from your posts. Keep up the good work and let us know how you progress. But I still think you would benefit from some decent lessons. Keep searching for the right teacher.

The Major[/quote]

Hi Major

Very kind words, thank you, I am very much on a journey.

I am aiming to find some time at the weekend to do some telephoning with the list you very kindly posted.

[wulf]

Yes - with a teacher, the "mystifying" aspect becomes unimportant because there is someone who can answer questions and make decisions about the best path to take through the text (including extra material from other sources). I think it sounds like we're beginning to harmonise here!

Wulf