Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just found out this morning that the money that I have just spent on two brand new Chunk Systems pedals (Agent 00Funk Mark II and Brown Dog) is probably a complete waste! I had been on their website and listened to the sounds from both pedals and then the excellent synth type tones they make when linked together. However whilst on the phone to them in Australia this morning it transpires that if you link both pedals together as shown on their website then you cannot use the Agent 00 Funk Mark II by itself as just an envelope filter! What they have done (as an improvement they tell me) is to make the pedal cut out the signal to the Envelope output when the pedal is bypassed! Great for cutting out unwanted noise but useless if you just want to have a funky envelope filter sound but with no fuzz on it. I bought these pedals (which are not cheap) because together they sound great and I justified it by thinking that I was also getting two pedals that would work well in isolation as all pedals do - this is not the case. I have expressed quite strongly that they should make it clear on their website that this is how the pedals work together as there is no mention of this at the moment and to be honest I feel quite conned! There will be a way of rigging this up but it is not what I thought I was getting or paying for! Thoughts or experiences of this anyone? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I suppose that's the design you end up with when you shoot for "true bypass". It does seem silly I agree. So I guess the filter just stays closed if there's no signal arriving through the envelope in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Yes exactly right - I just think that they should make this clear somewhere on their website as it is quite a big deal. The guy at Chunk (who TBF was pretty helpful) says that if I want to use the 00Funk this way then I should keep it in the chain and have a regular input from the brown dog but split the signal before it goes to my first pedal in the chain and take a direct input into the envelope input of the Agent Funk. How the hell do you do that??!! Mark [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='510145' date='Jun 10 2009, 01:33 PM']I suppose that's the design you end up with when you shoot for "true bypass". It does seem silly I agree. So I guess the filter just stays closed if there's no signal arriving through the envelope in?[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) Can't you get the brown dog to send the envelope output even when bypassed? EDIT: If not, you would have to make a relay to run off the brown dog's bypass to switch a buffered split of your signal into the envelope output. It seems pretty stupid that the envelope output feed doesn't keep running when you turn the fuzz pedal off. Edited June 10, 2009 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 No you can't - they say that the reason they did this was that in the first models there was a lot of bleed through coming into other pedals in the chain! Sounds lame to me!! How do I implement your suggestion? [quote name='cheddatom' post='510231' date='Jun 10 2009, 02:56 PM']Can't you get the brown dog to send the envelope output even when bypassed? EDIT: If not, you would have to make a relay to run off the brown dog's bypass to switch a buffered split of your signal into the envelope output. It seems pretty stupid that the envelope output feed doesn't keep running when you turn the fuzz pedal off.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Get an A/B-Y box, and switch between A->Brown Dog, and Y-> Agent Funk input AND Envelope input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Arrrrgh!1 that's not right, it's making my head explode! I will figure this out in a min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Sounds complicated - to make it worse I have to fit in the loop as follows: Bass to EBS Octabass to Brown Dog to Agent 00 Funk to EBS Bass IQ to EBS Multi Comp to EBS Uni Chorus!! Any help really appreciated! [quote name='cheddatom' post='510246' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:06 PM']Arrrrgh!1 that's not right, it's making my head explode! I will figure this out in a min.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) OK, get a Y cable, plug the Y end into the envelope input on the agent. Plug A into the envelope output on the fuzz. Plug B into Send B on a Boss LS-2. Plug the fuzz into the LS-2's A loop. Set it to switch between A and B. EDIT: The only problem with this is you might loose some volume when you're on "A" (bypassed fuzz) i'm not sure, but you could bring down the level for loop B to compensate for that. Edited June 10, 2009 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='cheddatom' post='510257' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:21 PM']OK, get a Y cable, plug the Y end into the envelope input on the agent. Plug A into the envelope output on the fuzz. Plug B into Send B on a Boss LS-2. Plug the fuzz into the LS-2's A loop. Set it to switch between A and B.[/quote] Easier (still involving an LS-2): Guitar -> LS-2 (always on, set to A+B Mix) LS-2 "A" Send -> Brown Dog input LS-2 "B" Send -> 00Funk envelope in Nothing plugged into the LS-2 output or loop return jacks (you're basically using it as a buffered signal splitter). That way your 00Funk is always receiving an input, regardless of whether your fuzz is on or not, just don't use the envelope out on the fuzz. You could potentially use any fuzz in this setup and get the same results from your filter, but personally I like the Brown Dog circuit. Edited June 10, 2009 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Yeh that's way simpler, I was thinking to use the LS-2 to bypass the brown dog and switch the envelope signal, but there's not need as you can use your original dry signal for the envelope input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Surely just a Y cable will do output of Brown dog into ev and the input? For the money couldn't you have got the OS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Sounds complicated b ut if it works then great - but the LS-2 is another £75 which is a pain! Can you advise what a Y cable is - not heard of that before. Where do I get one from? Also any advise on the crank type jack pedal connectors - good ones and where to get them from? [quote name='cheddatom' post='510257' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:21 PM']OK, get a Y cable, plug the Y end into the envelope input on the agent. Plug A into the envelope output on the fuzz. Plug B into Send B on a Boss LS-2. Plug the fuzz into the LS-2's A loop. Set it to switch between A and B. EDIT: The only problem with this is you might loose some volume when you're on "A" (bypassed fuzz) i'm not sure, but you could bring down the level for loop B to compensate for that.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Will this work - really do not want to have to spend more money on an LS-2. Sorry but what does OS mean? Operating System?? [quote name='tayste_2000' post='510293' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:48 PM']Surely just a Y cable will do output of Brown dog into ev and the input? For the money couldn't you have got the OS?[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 [quote name='tayste_2000' post='510293' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:48 PM']Surely just a Y cable will do output of Brown dog into ev and the input?[/quote] Yes but then the envelope input will be post Fuzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='510296' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:51 PM']Sounds complicated b ut if it works then great - but the LS-2 is another £75 which is a pain! Can you advise what a Y cable is - not heard of that before. Where do I get one from? Also any advise on the crank type jack pedal connectors - good ones and where to get them from?[/quote] A Y cable is two jack cables joined together at one end by a jack plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 You guys are genius's at this - guess you have all done this a few times before? Can you advise how this would fit in with my existing pedal set up - where would I put the LS-2 - at the beginning? Thanks a lot guys! [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='510284' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:42 PM']Easier (still involving an LS-2): Guitar -> LS-2 (always on, set to A+B Mix) LS-2 "A" Send -> Brown Dog input LS-2 "B" Send -> 00Funk envelope in Nothing plugged into the LS-2 output or loop return jacks (you're basically using it as a buffered signal splitter). That way your 00Funk is always receiving an input, regardless of whether your fuzz is on or not, just don't use the envelope out on the fuzz. You could potentially use any fuzz in this setup and get the same results from your filter, but personally I like the Brown Dog circuit.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 This should sort you out. [url="http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_models.htm#GL"]http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/swi...e_models.htm#GL[/url] </unhelpful> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='cheddatom' post='510299' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:54 PM']Yes but then the envelope input will be post Fuzz.[/quote] I think what TaySte meant was to put the Y cable before the Brown Dog, send one split to the Brown Dog input, and the other to the 00Funk envelope in. Same solution I suggested using an LS-2 really, but much cheaper. I'm always a bit sketchy about using Y-cables, but not for any rational reason. [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='510298' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:53 PM']Sorry but what does OS mean? Operating System??[/quote] The Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer. It has the 00Funk and Brown Dog circuits in it, and also a dedicated mixer (amongst other neat features) that makes sure the envelope follower always gets the clean input signal. [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='510303' date='Jun 10 2009, 03:57 PM']Can you advise how this would fit in with my existing pedal set up - where would I put the LS-2 - at the beginning?[/quote] Beginning would be best, so it gets the (best, cleanest) signal from your guitar and sends it to the envelope in on your 00Funk. But I would try it with a Y-cable first like TaySte suggested. If it works well enough then it'll be much cheaper than the LS-2 solution. Edited June 10, 2009 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='510307' date='Jun 10 2009, 04:02 PM']I think what TaySte meant was to put the Y cable before the Brown Dog, send one split to the Brown Dog input, and the other to the 00Funk envelope in. Same solution I suggested using an LS-2 really, but much cheaper. I'm always a bit sketchy about using Y-cables, but not for any rational reason.[/quote] Oh yeah....deeeerrrrr [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='510307' date='Jun 10 2009, 04:02 PM']But I would try it with a Y-cable first like TaySte suggested. If it works well enough then it'll be much cheaper than the LS-2 solution.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 OK - anyone recommend a good place to buy a Y cable from - never used one before! [quote name='cheddatom' post='510317' date='Jun 10 2009, 04:12 PM']Oh yeah....deeeerrrrr +1[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 people will recommend the custom cable builder OBBM on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 And would you? [quote name='cheddatom' post='510323' date='Jun 10 2009, 04:15 PM']people will recommend the custom cable builder OBBM on this site.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsfreddy2003 Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Ah Russ, as this was your idea it is bound to be horribly expensive!!! [quote name='EBS_freak' post='510306' date='Jun 10 2009, 04:00 PM']This should sort you out. [url="http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_models.htm#GL"]http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/swi...e_models.htm#GL[/url] </unhelpful>[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 [quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='510331' date='Jun 10 2009, 04:19 PM']And would you?[/quote] I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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