Vocal Recording - tips!

[iamapirate]

Well, I'm (literally) recording guitars as we speak, and I'm going to be moving onto vocals tomorrow, and I have a sehhenheiser E840S and a Shure SM-57 and a PG-57. Which is best for vocal recording.

Also, are there any general tips for recording vocals? I don't have a pop-shield (probably should get one) and apparently a sock over the mic does the same thing . Also, EQing it and other things. just to give it more clarity (and make sure it cuts through the mix)

Any help is MUCH appreciated!


EDIT

just out of intrest, which of these would you use for mic'ing bass, Or would you just go ahead and DI? Thats just an aside cos I've already done the bass DIing and it sounded nice and clear (and bassy) for my tastes!

[51m0n]

not a sock!

a stocking (or tights), a sock will kill your top end.

take a wire coathanger, unravel it, make a 4" diameter spiral (ie 2 loops). put sotcking over it (this holds the two layers of the stocking apart, which makes it work a lot better) attach to mic stand about 3" in front of mic.

THe right mic is the one that sounds best with that vocalist in that context, try all three (on each song if its close) and listen to the result....

[escholl]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='520717' date='Jun 22 2009, 01:32 PM']just out of intrest, which of these would you use for mic'ing bass, Or would you just go ahead and DI? Thats just an aside cos I've already done the bass DIing and it sounded nice and clear (and bassy) for my tastes![/quote]

i've use a SM57 on bass before, i found it to work quite well when blended with a DI -- but to be honest, I would probably just use the DI.


as far as vocals go, as Simon said, use the one which sounds the best with that vocalist. the SM57 with a pop filter will probably be ok, i've not used the E840 though so couldn't say. really, it does depend on what is going to suit the vocalist. It's hard to say about EQ or anything else specifically as it really does depend on the mic, the vocalist, the recording environment, and what other equipment you've got available.

[iamapirate]

haha, well at the moment it's the mics and your recorder!! xD oh and our guitarists' 2 week old 8gb of RAM macbook pro haha

[Rimskidog]

Try all the mics. To be hnest you need a decent pre to get the best out of any of them. Good advice re popshiled given above.

Presuming you havent got a great sounding room so get a duvet and hang it up in the corner of the room so it follows the 90 degree angle. Get the singer to stand with his back to the duvet and sing out into the room. The cardoid pattern of the mics (not sure about the Senn) will prevent reflections coming back into the mic from the room, and the duvet behind ill prevent reflections from the wall behind you. Cheapest and most effective vocal booth I know of! Better still if you have access to a reflexion filter.

Good luck!

[escholl]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='520758' date='Jun 22 2009, 02:14 PM']haha, well at the moment it's the mics and your recorder!! xD oh and our guitarists' 2 week old 8gb of RAM macbook pro haha[/quote]

how's the Akai working out for you?

[ahpook]

sure you can't get your hands on a condensor mic for the vocals ?

each to their own of course, but i've always got much better results using a condensor than a dynamic mic for voice.

[iamapirate]

hmmm, not as far as I know...

The Akai's working just brilliantly! What are the aux sends actually for?? I tried sending signals thorugh them (and pluggin in the auxes to monitors) as I presumeed they were monitor outputs. Doesn't matter - not as thought we actually need 4 seperate monitors!

[escholl]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='521077' date='Jun 22 2009, 07:55 PM']hmmm, not as far as I know...

The Akai's working just brilliantly! What are the aux sends actually for?? I tried sending signals thorugh them (and pluggin in the auxes to monitors) as I presumeed they were monitor outputs. Doesn't matter - not as thought we actually need 4 seperate monitors![/quote]

the aux sends are so you can route individual channels out through external hardware, and then back into the mixer. at least, that's what i used them for. there may be something in the manual?

[Rimskidog]

[quote name='ahpook' post='520878' date='Jun 22 2009, 04:36 PM']sure you can't get your hands on a condensor mic for the vocals ?

each to their own of course, but i've always got much better results using a condensor than a dynamic mic for voice.[/quote]

Horses for courses. Depends entirely on how the singer sounds and what the song needs. Sometimes one mic is better, sometimes another.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='521157' date='Jun 22 2009, 09:13 PM']Horses for courses. Depends entirely on how the singer sounds and what the song needs. Sometimes one mic is better, sometimes another.[/quote]

that's why i'm suggesting trying to get hold of a condensor mic, so the choice is there.

Edited June 22, 2009 by ahpook

[Rimskidog]

[quote name='ahpook' post='521174' date='Jun 22 2009, 09:26 PM']that's why i'm suggesting trying to get hold of a condensor mic, so the choice is there.[/quote]

Yeah I get what you are saying but "a condenser mic" is a very wide church. I have a locker full of them and every damn one of them sounds different. One condenser might sound awful with that voice in that song. Another might sound amazing. Try a condenser mic is a bit like saying 'try a stringed instrument'.

Here's a good example. Listen to the tracks SDC1 and SDC2 here: [url="http://www.myspace.com/circledemos"]http://www.myspace.com/circledemos[/url]. Each of them is a high end small diaphragm condensers recording exactly the same performance. Both pointing over the players shoulder directly across the picking hand toward the thigh. Both sound very different. As it happens both work pretty well in this clip but imagine it was a voice being captured. One might work very well. Another might not. Make sense?

Sorry, not intending to labour the point. Just trying to open people's eyes/ears to a whole new way of thinking about recording.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='521205' date='Jun 22 2009, 09:53 PM']Yeah I get what you are saying but "a condenser mic" is a very wide church. I have a locker full of them and every damn one of them sounds different. One condenser might sound awful with that voice in that song. Another might sound amazing. Try a condenser mic is a bit like saying 'try a stringed instrument'.

Here's a good example. Listen to the tracks SDC1 and SDC2 here: [url="http://www.myspace.com/circledemos"]http://www.myspace.com/circledemos[/url]. Each of them is a high end small diaphragm condensers recording exactly the same performance. Both pointing over the players shoulder directly across the picking hand toward the thigh. Both sound very different. As it happens both work pretty well in this clip but imagine it was a voice being captured. One might work very well. Another might not. Make sense?

Sorry, not intending to labour the point. Just trying to open people's eyes/ears to a whole new way of thinking about recording.[/quote]

Exactly, there is no right or wrong mic, take what you've got, try them all, the one that fits is the right on for that song, that performer on that day even.

Getting the right mics for drums if you have the time can take ages. Really!

Voice is usually pretty easy, you whack all the mics you've got up, and take the one that gives the best recording, but even then you can fettle the angle of the mic to the singer, and the height of the mic and the distance to the mic (easiest in a really dead vocal booth - but doable with Rimskidog's faux booth mentioned above)

Saying get a condenser is fine, but you can in certain circumstance do way better with a great dynamic (RE20) or a nice ribon (Cascade Fat Head) or something different (Heil PR40 - its a dynamic but not as we know it Jim, it uses neo magnets). Not to mention the sheer number of bad condensors out there....

I'd bet on a dynamic up to £500 over a Condenser up to £500 myself for vox, over that and the condensers start getting interesting IMO...

Edited June 22, 2009 by 51m0n

[Rimskidog]

[quote name='51m0n' post='521240' date='Jun 22 2009, 10:22 PM']Getting the right mics for drums if you have the time can take ages. Really![/quote]

Hell yeah. I know one engineer who took over 3 months getting the right snare sound for one song. Seriously!

[quote name='51m0n' post='521240' date='Jun 22 2009, 10:22 PM']Saying get a condenser is fine, but you can in certain circumstance do way better with a great dynamic (RE20) or a nice ribon (Cascade Fat Head) or something different (Heil PR40 - its a dynamic but not as we know it Jim, it uses neo magnets). Not to mention the sheer number of bad condensors out there....

I'd bet on a dynamic up to £500 over a Condenser up to £500 myself for vox, over that and the condensers start getting interesting IMO...[/quote]

Yep. Agree here (mostly) too though I find the shure sm7 is a more flexible dynamic (with the RE20 a close second) and have never yet found a voice that works well on a fathead (awesome on overheads or heavy guitars though). I'm more likely to stick up an R84 on vox if I really want the ribbon vibe. That has it in spades. I havent really found a condenser I really liked for less than £500 (though the Rode NT2a and Mojave MA200 are pretty useable)

[ahpook]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='521205' date='Jun 22 2009, 09:53 PM']Here's a good example. Listen to the tracks SDC1 and SDC2 here: [url="http://www.myspace.com/circledemos"]http://www.myspace.com/circledemos[/url]. Each of them is a high end small diaphragm condensers recording exactly the same performance. Both pointing over the players shoulder directly across the picking hand toward the thigh. Both sound very different. As it happens both work pretty well in this clip but imagine it was a voice being captured. One might work very well. Another might not. Make sense?

Sorry, not intending to labour the point. Just trying to open people's eyes/ears to a whole new way of thinking about recording.[/quote]

you know an awful lot more about this than me.

[Rimskidog]

[quote name='ahpook' post='521302' date='Jun 22 2009, 11:22 PM']you know an awful lot more about this than me.[/quote]

We're all still learning feller!

[iamapirate]

As for singing style, I'm not sure what songs I have on the myspace, but it's [url="http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid"]http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid[/url]
Our singer sings at people's normal shouting volume, and yet we can't get the energy across that's in his voice very well. Is there a substitute for a wire coathanger for a pop-shield? I expect we'll get some tights and get the drummer and g-tardist to hold it in position! xD

[51m0n]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='521341' date='Jun 23 2009, 12:22 AM']As for singing style, I'm not sure what songs I have on the myspace, but it's [url="http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid"]http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid[/url]
Our singer sings at people's normal shouting volume, and yet we can't get the energy across that's in his voice very well. Is there a substitute for a wire coathanger for a pop-shield? I expect we'll get some tights and get the drummer and g-tardist to hold it in position! xD[/quote]

Yeah any stiff but of bendy stuff that will hold its shape. Wire is best, and most people can find a wire coat hanger, or buy one. A 'proper' pop shield will certainly cost over £20, the DIY version is less than a fiver. The results are certainly equivalent for the home market - with a little time and effort you can actually make it look pretty pro too....

[escholl]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='521341' date='Jun 23 2009, 12:22 AM']Is there a substitute for a wire coathanger for a pop-shield? I expect we'll get some tights and get the drummer and g-tardist to hold it in position! xD[/quote]

perhaps if you got a fairly large diameter (6-8 inches) plastic or metal container, and used a saw or a knife to cut out a ring of it about 1cm deep -- then stretch the tights over that.

one other piece of advice i forgot to mention earlier is to put the mic slightly above the singer's mouth, if you find you are having trouble with excessive sibilance.

Edited June 23, 2009 by escholl

[51m0n]

How about a 1" length of 4" diameter plastic drainage pipe??

+ stocking of course....

[51m0n]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='521341' date='Jun 23 2009, 12:22 AM']As for singing style, I'm not sure what songs I have on the myspace, but it's [url="http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid"]http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid[/url]
Our singer sings at people's normal shouting volume, and yet we can't get the energy across that's in his voice very well. Is there a substitute for a wire coathanger for a pop-shield? I expect we'll get some tights and get the drummer and g-tardist to hold it in position! xD[/quote]

Performance energy is not related to volume IME. Think of the energy in Sinead O'Conner's 'Nothing Compares' performance. She aint that loud in that....

This is a tricky one, he may be just unused to singing to a stocking in an empty room , he may be very self conscious about being critiqued :blush: , he may hate the sound of his own recorded voice (a lot of singers do!)

Try dimming lights, get him in a seperate space, only have you and him there, getting him mellow, getting him riled - whatever. Ty getting him ti explain the lyics and what they mean to you.

This is the bit a producer is for, an engineer catures sound, a producer creates the right atmosphere for the performance to be optimal (in theory anyway). You as the engineer can take a huge amount of that role on your own shoulders (and should in this case IMO)

Good luck!

[iamapirate]

Yeah, well We've been doing a lot of home recordings so he's used to hearing his own voice a lot on reocrdings. I know it's kinda what you said not to do but we got a (very) thin sock over the mic (I think we used the SM-57 in the end). Bearing in mind that the band stayed round my house for the night (and we went to sleep at 2:30am) and that the vocalist had to go at 11am, we really didn't want to make a pop-shield - plus I think my Mum would kill me - firstly taking her stockings, then going and cutting out the bottom of her favourite piece of tupperware! So a sock was the easiest thing to do. We used the macbook for reverb, and whacked it in and the results are here: (It's only the first track - others on their way!) [url="http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid"]http://www.myspace.com/bandhybridhybrid[/url]