Lightweight, uncoloured cab?

[Musky]

[quote name='stevie' post='530637' date='Jul 2 2009, 01:58 PM']If I want a car with four doors, I want a car with four doors. I don't care how fast it goes as long as I don't have to swing the front seats up to let the kids in every time I take them to school. A car with four doors meets my needs better than a car with two doors - to take your analogy to its logical conclusion.[/quote]

I'm not sure an imperfect analogy needs taking to a logical conclusion.

[stevie]

[quote name='Musky' post='530717' date='Jul 2 2009, 03:25 PM']I'm not sure an imperfect analogy needs taking to a logical conclusion. [/quote]
You're probably right .... I just couldn't resist. I'll try to exert more self control in future.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Linus27' post='530579' date='Jul 2 2009, 01:21 PM']Yeah it is hot and I am just about to go for a curry. really sure thats a bad move.

I've also only heard good things about Alex's cabs but I am more a 4x10 type of guy. I do need light though. Have you tried any Epifani's?[/quote]

I had a curry for lunch. Only a birdseye microwavable one but it went down well.

I used to own a Epifani UL212 and even that was lighter than my 1210R. It was a nice size but i never really got on with it. It sounded great on its own and at small gigs but it lacked the kick of my 1210R (that i was using for the other band). It seems quite slow and, while not woolly exactly, it did seem soft in the mid range. I had to sell it last year (to someone on here) as i needed to scale down and so got a 1212L. what a difference. No problems with either getting heard or sounding clear. If it wasn't for the need to scale down i had been thinking about getting a UL410 or UL310.
Im pretty sure im not a 10"'s person but by all accounts the UL410 is a very nice cab. I tried one and and i was sort of sold on it but then i had to get a smaller cab very quickly.
I used to have a UL115 as well and that was very nice. Probably the best sounding and lightest cab ive every owned. Just not quite up to being in a one cab rig for some of our gigs.
It was a very full sounding cab though, nice round lows and because of the tweeter very clear sounding and totally different to my MAG 1x15 deep cab. The Ashdown was a more traditional sounding 1x15 i guess.

I would also like to reply to Alex's post that while a lot of cabs do sound different, even though they are loaded with the same type of drivers i feel i can hear the difference between a 10" and a 12"/15" and i dont really like the very fast attack you can get from 10"s. Saying that with 4 of them in a cab i also found they could produce a lot more lows than a 2x12.
Just my experience though.

Edited July 2, 2009 by dave_bass5

[51m0n]

[quote name='Linus27' post='530643' date='Jul 2 2009, 02:01 PM']OK, talking from a non-expert background. I have always found that a 1x15 was always a lot bassier and boomier, especially when comparing like for like. For example, a Trace 1x15 combo always sounded bassier than the 4x10 combo. Even my two Ashdown MAG cabs I had sounded different with my MAG head. The 1x15 was much fuller and bassier than the 2x10 was cleaner, smoother with less bottom end. This was where I actually found the Ashdown 1x15 sounding wooly.

So basing on my experience on different cabs, a 1x15 had always sounded too bass heavy for me and why I always chose the 4x10 option. Now, your cabs may be different but I just wanted to explain why I commented on a 4x10 sound.[/quote]

Thats a really common misconception, but if I told you the newly aquired Berg HT115 didnt go as deep as the Berg HT210 it works with, or have as much growl would that surprise you?

The 115 has a lovely warm tone, masses of low mid punch, very smooth. Gorgeous sound, not at all slow. Its been widely stated as the ultimate 115 by such bass gear luminaries as Tom Bowlus (a man with probably the largest bass gear fetish on the planet).

Well as the 210 is a bigger volume box which accounts for the added lows, it also has tens which tend to provide more upper mid range. They both have the same tweeter in.

So the really important difference is the box volume, for depth at least. The smaller volume of the HT115 means less depth.

The upshot of all this is the 210 sounds more hifi than the 115, both together is magical though!

Most 410 boxes are pretty big, so they go pretty deep, (assuming all else equal).

Edited July 2, 2009 by 51m0n

[Doddy]

I can't recommend Bergantino cabinets highly enough.
I use the HS410 which is,quite frankly,awesome. The AE410 is way lighter but I prefer the sound of
the HS410. They are both ace though.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Linus27' post='530643' date='Jul 2 2009, 02:01 PM']OK, talking from a non-expert background. I have always found that a 1x15 was always a lot bassier and boomier, especially when comparing like for like.[/quote]

The boomier thing tends to be because cheaper 15"s don't have strong enough motors to control the big cone. On the bassier thing, well my old Acme 2x10"s had tons more bottom than the Compact does.

Alex

[Musicman20]

I have to admit as time as gone on, in 14 years as a bassist, I can see why people think a 1x15 sounds like it does. It might be based on more of the classic style 1x15s, not the new designs.....but there is a sense that a 4x10 is fast and punchy, whereas a 1x15 sounds nice and chunky and low.

This is only with cabs i've tried....saying that my Orange 1x15 has very sweet highs...without a tweeter. Tom Bowlus noticed the same thing.

So, I think its a tradtional view from tradtional cabs. New designs may indeed be different

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='530848' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:43 PM']So, I think its a tradtional view from tradtional cabs. New designs may indeed be different [/quote]

I think it's more a case of most bass guitar 15"s having always been pretty cheap. Some of the big heavy expensive old EV and Fane 15"s are very much revered and referred to as 'not sounding like 15"s'. But if the majority of 15"s you hear are the ones in those 'my first combo I can gig with' and then when you buy a good rig you do the standard thing and get a 4x10" plus head, then no wonder a 4x10" seems a much better configuration.

Alex

[Musicman20]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='530860' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:51 PM']I think it's more a case of most bass guitar 15"s having always been pretty cheap. Some of the big heavy expensive old EV and Fane 15"s are very much revered and referred to as 'not sounding like 15"s'. But if the majority of 15"s you hear are the ones in those 'my first combo I can gig with' and then when you buy a good rig you do the standard thing and get a 4x10" plus head, then no wonder a 4x10" seems a much better configuration.

Alex[/quote]

+1. My first set of cabs with amp was a Peavey 1x15 with Black Widow Speaker, and the 410 to match. Awful 15.....it put me off for a long time.

[Linus27]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='530848' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:43 PM']I have to admit as time as gone on, in 14 years as a bassist, I can see why people think a 1x15 sounds like it does. It might be based on more of the classic style 1x15s, not the new designs.....but there is a sense that a 4x10 is fast and punchy, whereas a 1x15 sounds nice and chunky and low.

This is only with cabs i've tried....saying that my Orange 1x15 has very sweet highs...without a tweeter. Tom Bowlus noticed the same thing.

So, I think its a tradtional view from tradtional cabs. New designs may indeed be different [/quote]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I have been playing for 23 years and not really bought many bass cabs so I can only comment on what I have owned or tried which is why I say from a non-expert background. My first cab was a Calrbro 1x15 back around 1988. Then I got a Trace Valve combo 1x15 around 1996. Then a Trace combo 1x15 around 1997. Then I got a Hartke 4x10XL and 1x15XL around 1998. I ended up using the 1x15 more because the 4x10 was was so thin and tinny but that might have been because of the alluminium speakers. All this time I was playing punk rock pop stuff which needed fat full driving bass lines. The classic 4x10's in those days just sounded thin and to much top end which is why I chose the 1x15 everytime.

I guess all my old speakers were the old classic style and why I have the opinion that 1x15's have a certain sound. I guess speakers have changed a lot in recent years.

However, I still have to question, what the difference tonally there is between say a 1x15, 2x10 and 4x10 and infact a 2x12 for that matter and why do manufacturers offer the different configurations. My MAG 2x10 and 1x15 certainly sounded different and sat with the traditional perception. There was not a big difference but enough for me to notice and choose between depending on what bass I was going to play. Jazz would get the 2x10 to be clearer and more mids and top and my Stingray would go with the 1x15 to fatten it out.

I guess things have moved on.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='Linus27' post='531008' date='Jul 2 2009, 08:03 PM']However, I still have to question, what the difference tonally there is between say a 1x15, 2x10 and 4x10 and infact a 2x12 for that matter and why do manufacturers offer the different configurations.[/quote]

In theory: there is no tonal difference, and the reason why manufacturers offer the various options is that most bass players have a slavish adherence to a particular setup (ie they believe that they prefer the sound of 10s etc, or they believe that they need a 410+115 to get their desired tone) and so you need to offer some variety in order to capture the entire market.

In practise: if you take a 410 and a 115 which are made with cheap drivers, and then push them beyond the limits of their clean excursion by putting 200 watts into each, then they will sound very different. You will end up with "the 410 sound" and "the 115 sound".

S.P.

[Mr.T]

[quote name='Linus27' post='530643' date='Jul 2 2009, 02:01 PM']For example, a Trace 1x15 combo always sounded bassier than the 4x10 combo.[/quote]

Many, many moons ago...

I traded my Trace 1x15 combo for a 4x10 because the 4x10 had more useable bottom end (To my ears).

I make no claim to be an expert in the subject, but I think this has more to do with cabinet and driver design (and compatibility) than the size of the driver itself.

As with motorcycle (or car) engines, the displacement and number of cylinders does not give an accurate clue to actual performance.... It is all about tuning.

[Linus27]

Well, I have been very kindly lent a Epifani 310 cab to try by Obhm and so today I plugged it into my Ashdown ABM EVO III head. At first I tried it with my Lakland Darryl Jones, running everything flat and it sounded very clean and punchy. Each note was very distinct and crisp. I then plugged my head into my Ashdown ABM 4x10 to compare and the Ashdown was much fuller and fatter sounding but less clean and distinct. It was punchy but the clean tone was somewhat hidden away under the mushiness that the Ashdown was giving. This was not a bad thing as what you lose in tone, you gain in fullness. With the Epifani, you get a slightly thinner sound but get a much cleaner precise tone. I then plugged my Lakland Duck Dunn through the Ashdown 4x10 and this sounds wonderful. Big fat precision sound. I then tried it through the Epifani and is sounded great but very bright and crisp and it lost a lot of the bottom end. I am sure the tone could be dialled in but for now, I just wanted to try everything flat.

So, overall, I really like the Epifani and it really suits the tone I want to get out of a Jazz. However, the Ashdown, did stand up really well against it especially as it costs half the price. I am going to play with the Epifani some more over the next day or so but I do wonder if the Epifani 212 would add a bit more fullness to the sound over the 310.

One funny thing though, after I finished testing. I packed the Epifani away which may I add, is so light its unbelievable. You can carry it one handed. I then went to pack the Ashdown ABM4x10 away and as I picked it up, I got a really sharp stabbing pain in the base of my spine. I am now in some discomfort and pain in my lower back and has confirmed in my mind that its time to go lightweight, whatever the cost. Its just not worth it anymore.

[bassmansky]

i love the sound of my abm 4x10 but as you say it is a bit heavy for one person to carry.the handles are not exactly very kind on your hands either and i find when someone is helping you carry it ,the cab is not very well balanced.so after humping it around for the last year i am also thinking of going lightweight,but to what?I need a deep sound from a cab (or two) which is light and compact and needs to be loud without affecting the sound quality.good luck in finding a new cab, any reccomendations would be most helpful

[whynot]

Not sure if Kalim still has my old Tech Soundsystems 4x10. Was in the For Sale listing several weeks back.
I used both an ABM500 and 300 with it at one point. Clear, punchy, not boomy.

[Linus27]

[quote name='bassmansky' post='533169' date='Jul 5 2009, 05:47 PM']i love the sound of my abm 4x10 but as you say it is a bit heavy for one person to carry.the handles are not exactly very kind on your hands either and i find when someone is helping you carry it ,the cab is not very well balanced.so after humping it around for the last year i am also thinking of going lightweight,but to what?I need a deep sound from a cab (or two) which is light and compact and needs to be loud without affecting the sound quality.good luck in finding a new cab, any reccomendations would be most helpful [/quote]

Epifani and Genz Benz seem to be top of my list at the moment. If I go with the Epifani, then either the 3x10 or the 2x12 and I will stick with my Ashdown ABM EVO III head. If I go the Genz Benz route, then I am tempted to get a Shuttle 6 and the Genz Benz Neox 212T cab. However, I know nothing about the Genz Benz stuff apart from it is supposed to sound very good.

[Musicman20]

Im going to add my experience of 'weight' recently to this.

Even 60lbs is still a bugger to lift. My Orange OBC115 is a tad over 60lbs, and still need a good lift. Its not massively heavy, just not easy!

So...even though some cabs state 'lightweight' at 60-70lbs, it is lighter than old school weight, but still not hugely helpful!

Something compact make a hell of a difference, with casters.

I lifted a 70lbs cab this weekend, and yes its still lighter than say an Ampeg 410E by 25 lbs, its still not practical until you have casters or small size to get your arms round it better.

Once I put my casters on my Aguilar DB212s, (they come with them and can be taken out really easily) it made a world of difference.

[tauzero]

[quote name='whynot' post='533181' date='Jul 5 2009, 06:03 PM']Not sure if Kalim still has my old Tech Soundsystems 4x10. Was in the For Sale listing several weeks back.
I used both an ABM500 and 300 with it at one point. Clear, punchy, not boomy.[/quote]
It's now sat in my lounge. I still have to have a decent play with the Superfly to explore the sound but I'd agree entirely with that description. It's a keeper...