Ear Plugs

[Finbar]

Hmm, after reading through this thread, I went and bought some ER-20s. No hassle, they're only like a tenner or something. Took them to our last band practice, set everything up how we wanted it, and then in went the plugs. Immediately, I felt like something had been taken away from the sound of the band though. The tones and effects we use weren't coming through well at all, the drums were barely audible sometimes, and everything just felt dampened. To be honest, this kind of killed off a lot of the enjoyment for me, as I couldn't cope with this alteration of what I hear. After 15 minutes, I abandoned the earplugs, and exposed myself to sonic bliss again, much to my relief.

So I'm left with somewhat of a dilemma. I know that earplugs are going to save me hassle in the long run - my ears are obviously incredibly important. But I just can't work with them. I can't imagine doing a full practice, let alone two a week with them in, and gigs would be a nightmare :/

I'd love to have something that just quietened the sound, rather than put a blanket over it, but I don't want to splash £150 on a fitted pair, if I can't be sure I won't have the same issue.

[Dood]

You have outline a good point here. I am going to tell you something that sounds a bit unbelieveable! I have heard it more than once and it is defintely the case for me with moulds.

If you wear good plugs for long enough, how ever it happens, you become acustomed to them.. I don't know if your brain sorts itself out, but I remember wondering why I couldn't figure out how loud I was when I first started using plugs.. but now I won't even go to a normal gig in the crowd without wearing them.

I suspect it maybe more to do with the ER-20's as well.. Don't forget, they are still only ten quid.. they are good, but they can't fully get rid of the occlusion effect - and that wierd' something missing' sound.

Look after ya ears buddy - keep trying with different plugs too.. it certainly seems that ones that I found unusable are highly thought of by others.

Dan

[Dood]

This is interesting! [url="http://www.hearingresearch.org/Dr.Ross/occlusion.htm"]http://www.hearingresearch.org/Dr.Ross/occlusion.htm[/url]

[Finbar]

Hm, I have to say I don't have problems with hearing my own voice too loud and becoming distracted It is louder in my head with plugs, for sure, but only weird in the same way talking through a PA is for the first time - I'm used to that. I'm just not sure I can cope with the huge loss on everything but low end, and the overal 'fogginess' of sound ¬_¬

It all comes down to money doesn't it. I can't afford to splash on some £160 plugs, especially without knowing if I will like them.

[bass_ferret]

I could not get on with the ER20's and went back to foam as they were more comfortable but did mess with the sound. I went for the full on moulded jobbies and they are great. I need the full 25db cos my ears are totally f***ed but if you are not already suffering then the 15db will probably do OK.

What you have to ask yourself young Finbar is how much is your hearing worth? I would suggest a lot more than £160.

[Finbar]

Oh, I'm not debating that, don't get me wrong! If I was that carefree, I wouldn't have even taken a small dip into earplugs with the ER20s. But they do kill my enjoyment of playing with my band. And I do play with my band because I enjoy it!

And while something may be worth £160, you still need to have that much money in the first place! I am poor :/

[martinbass7750]

Hi All,

I need to get some ear plugs, and I want to go for the best.

I've been reading through this thread, but it's soooo long I got confused

Can you tell me the best choice for a moulded ear plug please - I would also like to add in-ear monitoring at some stage, so can that be added to the same ear plugs?

Cheers

Martin

Edited February 27, 2008 by martinbass7750

[geilerbass]

This link has probably already been posted, but won't hurt to put it up again: -

[url="http://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/musicians-protection.htm"]http://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/musicians-protection.htm[/url]

I have used these for years. They are expensive, but are undoubtably the best. Think of it as paying for your ability to hear and the cost seems somewhat less significant.

The main advantage is that they have a level cut across all frequencies, meaning that the music isn't affected by un-even attenuation.

[rohan]

[quote name='dood' post='131984' date='Feb 1 2008, 03:34 PM']This is interesting! [url="http://www.hearingresearch.org/Dr.Ross/occlusion.htm"]http://www.hearingresearch.org/Dr.Ross/occlusion.htm[/url][/quote]

I had something similar to this after the first time i went scuba diving, I was hearing everything through water lodged in my ear so everything I listened to sounded out of tune!

[Dood]

[quote name='martinbass7750' post='147792' date='Feb 27 2008, 01:28 PM']Hi All,

I need to get some ear plugs, and I want to go for the best.

I've been reading through this thread, but it's soooo long I got confused

Can you tell me the best choice for a moulded ear plug please - I would also like to add in-ear monitoring at some stage, so can that be added to the same ear plugs?

Cheers

Martin[/quote]

The moulds for ER9/15/25 are such that with an adaptor from Etymotic Research, you can plug in there own in ear monitors systems. Thus the moulds can be used as hearing protection OR with in-ears. Etymotic also sell under the names Elacin and Heros (Heroes). When ayone refers to the ER range of plugs, they are refering to Etymotic Research. There are other companies out there doing in ear monitors. I think some of the best 'all in ones' are made by "ultimate ears".

If you are after just straight cheap and cheerful (yet surprisingly good) ear protection, then look at the ER20 range. These are not moulded to your ear and use the funnel shape ends. With the plugs seated properly (so many seem to get it a bit wrong) you should get 20dB of attenuation and not too bad a sound. I found that I couldnt wear these for too long as I have very narrow ear canals, as I porved when I compared my ER moulds against my mates ones!

I know this sounds boring, but do go back and read through the thread with a good cuppa.. all the salient info is right here for you.

[quote name='geilerbass' post='147812' date='Feb 27 2008, 01:47 PM']This link has probably already been posted, but won't hurt to put it up again: -

[url="http://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/musicians-protection.htm"]http://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/musicians-protection.htm[/url]

I have used these for years. They are expensive, but are undoubtably the best. Think of it as paying for your ability to hear and the cost seems somewhat less significant.

The main advantage is that they have a level cut across all frequencies, meaning that the music isn't affected by un-even attenuation.[/quote]

Yep, these are the Etymotic Research attenuators too. As you can see, under the Elacin name (same company)

[bass_ferret]

You can get them from any specsavers with a hearing centre.

[99ster]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='147978' date='Feb 27 2008, 05:34 PM']You can get them from any specsavers with a hearing centre.[/quote]


+1
That's where I got my custom moulded ones from.

[martinbass7750]

[quote name='dood' post='147974' date='Feb 27 2008, 05:24 PM']The moulds for ER9/15/25 are such that with an adaptor from Etymotic Research, you can plug in there own in ear monitors systems. Thus the moulds can be used as hearing protection OR with in-ears. Etymotic also sell under the names Elacin and Heros (Heroes). When ayone refers to the ER range of plugs, they are refering to Etymotic Research. There are other companies out there doing in ear monitors. I think some of the best 'all in ones' are made by "ultimate ears".

If you are after just straight cheap and cheerful (yet surprisingly good) ear protection, then look at the ER20 range. These are not moulded to your ear and use the funnel shape ends. With the plugs seated properly (so many seem to get it a bit wrong) you should get 20dB of attenuation and not too bad a sound. I found that I couldnt wear these for too long as I have very narrow ear canals, as I porved when I compared my ER moulds against my mates ones!

I know this sounds boring, but do go back and read through the thread with a good cuppa.. all the salient info is right here for you.



Yep, these are the Etymotic Research attenuators too. As you can see, under the Elacin name (same company)[/quote]


Thanks Dan - a fount of knowledge as usual!

[bass_ferret]

Someone should edit this up and stick it on the wiki for easier reading.

[martinbass7750]

[quote]The moulds for ER9/15/25 are such that with an adaptor from Etymotic Research, you can plug in there own in ear monitors systems. Thus the moulds can be used as hearing protection OR with in-ears[/quote]

OK, a few more questions.

Do you get all 3 filters with the ER9/15/25? If not, which is likely to be the best choice? The website I just looked at suggested the ER15.

If I then buy the matching ear monitors (T15 I think) how do I connect them up to a monitor system?

I could go wireless, or presumably you can hard wire in-ear monitors. I seem to remember seeing a small unit to attach to your belt which connected to the audio out from the mixer, and you plugged the in-ear monitors into it, but I'm b******d if I can find it again. Maybe it was a weird dream!

And if I go wireless, does anyone have a view on which system to go for? They seem to vary in price a lot from just over £100 to £600.

Hope I haven't hijacked this thread too much.

[Dood]

[quote name='martinbass7750' post='148046' date='Feb 27 2008, 07:20 PM']OK, a few more questions.

Do you get all 3 filters with the ER9/15/25? If not, which is likely to be the best choice? The website I just looked at suggested the ER15.

If I then buy the matching ear monitors (T15 I think) how do I connect them up to a monitor system?

I could go wireless, or presumably you can hard wire in-ear monitors. I seem to remember seeing a small unit to attach to your belt which connected to the audio out from the mixer, and you plugged the in-ear monitors into it, but I'm b******d if I can find it again. Maybe it was a weird dream!

And if I go wireless, does anyone have a view on which system to go for? They seem to vary in price a lot from just over £100 to £600.

Hope I haven't hijacked this thread too much. [/quote]

You only get one set, and replacements / changes can be up to 70 quid for a pair. 15's are good for an average band.. I would suggest 25's for a rock/metal band!!!
I use 25's all the time, just because I have got used to them.. I also think they do break in a little too.

There are different ways of attacking the in ear system! Ped plugs his in ears straight into the front of his POD XT PRO and takes a feed straight out to the PA. The POD is designed to do this and you need no other hardware.. earphones, POD and bass... thats it!!!!

You could, like I have in the past, take a feed out of your backline into a little mixer to drive your earphones. The nice thing about this, is you can obviously mix in feeds from other people too! so in your ears you could have exactly the mix you want of other peoples signals. So there's just a couple of hardwire solutions, you are plugged directly into your gear.

You mention wireless IEM too.l. yup, the 'reverse' of a guitar wireless system, you have a little box on ya belt that you plug your earphones into and a transmitter that you plug your amp/mixer/POD into. Shure, Trantec, Beyer Dynamic, Audio Technica and Senheisser all make really pro systems as well as more afordable ones. Prices do vary! and £600 is still cheap in comparison to the really top spec stuff which include the moulds and..well... i think you get a haircut and pedacure at the same time as the fitting!!!

You haven't hijacked the thread at all chap!!!

[martinbass7750]

Thanks Dan - that pretty much tells me all I need to know about ear type stuff.

Off to the shops on Saturday it is

Cheers

Martin

[martinbass7750]

[quote name='martinbass7750' post='148282' date='Feb 28 2008, 10:37 AM']Thanks Dan - that pretty much tells me all I need to know about ear type stuff.

Off to the shops on Saturday it is

Cheers

Martin[/quote]
Well I bit the bullet' and ordered some ER15s today from Boots in Cheltenham. I can change the filter within 3 months, so happy with that. I also had a hearing test; quite interesting really. Normal up to 4k then dropped off 20dB up to 8k.
Apparently about right for my age and musical history!

[Dood]

[quote name='martinbass7750' post='149061' date='Feb 29 2008, 05:11 PM']Well I bit the bullet' and ordered some ER15s today from Boots in Cheltenham. I can change the filter within 3 months, so happy with that. I also had a hearing test; quite interesting really. Normal up to 4k then dropped off 20dB up to 8k.
Apparently about right for my age and musical history![/quote]


Good on ya mate!! You'll find that you will become acustomed to the new way of hearing, if you can call it that.. then I reckon you'll ask yourself why you didnt do it years ago! I know I do! ... mebbe just a tad too late for me as well!!!

[jwbassman]

As this was discussed on the radio a couple of days ago, it prompted me to look over this thread again and subsequently I've just ordered some ER20's with a view to trying them out at rehersal on Saturday.

It's something I've been thinking about for a while now so will be interesting to finally see how it sounds at the weekend...

[Merton]

[quote name='jwbassman' post='152173' date='Mar 6 2008, 08:37 AM']As this was discussed on the radio a couple of days ago, it prompted me to look over this thread again and subsequently I've just ordered some ER20's with a view to trying them out at rehersal on Saturday.

It's something I've been thinking about for a while now so will be interesting to finally see how it sounds at the weekend...[/quote]
Oh christ, you didn't hear me jibbering on about them on Radio 5 did you?

[andrewrx7]

I've used the ER20's for about 2 years now. Really wished I'd tried them earlier. Unfortunately, until I got mild tinitus, I thought I was OK, but now I have it, I regret not using ear plugs earlier. But hey ho! you live and learn, and now I've just got to live with it!

I bought a db monitor a while back, and had it at rehearsals, just out of interest to see what level the band plays at. We rehearse in a small village hall. Basically at what the band (i.e. the other 2 members!) think is an OK level to rehearse at, i.e. what volume the band naturally settles at, was around 110-115dB for the drummer/guitarist, but when the bass kicked in, it was spiking repeatedly at 120-125dB. An eye opener, and justifies my use of the ear plugs. What surprises me, is that the other 2 still don't use any ear denfenders, and just rely on their natural ability to repeatedly recover after rehearsal/gigs. So far neither has tinitus problems, but then I didn't until 2 years ago. I did think to start with, that ear plugs would be very conspicuous and was pretty conciencious about them, but no-one has ever questioned them at gigs, not once. Personally, I have tried foams as well, but they are too muffled for my personal liking, so have stuck with the ER20's - which do give a much clearer sound, in my opinion.

[jwbassman]

[quote name='Merton' post='152188' date='Mar 6 2008, 10:02 AM']Oh christ, you didn't hear me jibbering on about them on Radio 5 did you? [/quote]

Indeed it was Radio 5

[geilerbass]

I've got mild tinnitus (fortunately no actual hearing loss) and that was with wearing earplugs for pretty much all musical activity (including watching gigs and going to nightclubs) from the age of 17 (after I got a real scare at my very first live show, Iron Maiden at Brixton Academy!). It seems that it is far from an exact science - some people have a higher natural tolerance than others, though sadly, not me.

It's interesting reading how some people find it difficult/uncomfortable with earplugs. I've worn plugs for so long that I've gone the other way and now, if I'm in a pub and they start to turn the music up, I'll have to leave if I don't have a pair of earplugs to hand. It's a purely psychological thing - I can't relax if the music feels too loud, as I'm convinced it's doing damage.

I really couldn't live without my ER25's anymore!

In fact, does anyone know if you can get decent earplugs with a higher attenuation than 25dB? There are times at rehearsal when even that doesn't feel sufficient.

[Thunderthumbs]

I've seen various locum doctors who have tried to tell me I just have wax that is causing the constant ringing in my ears. I've at last been able to see my registered GP who is booking me in for audio tests as she said the amount of wax I have is not enough to cause permanent ringing.

So obviously, I've come to the conclusion I've probably got mild tinitus, which wouldn't surprise me after nearly 30 years of playing.

So glad I've seen this thread, as you can't put a price on things such as hearing, sight, etc.

Whether I can afford it or not, I'm going to purchase some ear plugs. I'd still like to be able to appreciate what I'm playing in the next 30 years if I live that long.