Boutique Basses

[birdy]

[quote name='Tait' post='531271' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:01 AM']ahh, it seems i didn't understand your point at all then!

true, the playability is another factor, but tbh i pity you if you can't get along with anything thats out there. and ok, maybe you can get along with whats out there, but these expensive boutique basses are nicer in your eyes, but it leads back to the original question, is it worth it? i wouldn't have thought so. if you like a stingray neck for example, im sure jon shuker or RIM basses (as the two cheaper examples of boutique basses given earlier) would make a bass with a stingray neck, with a much better build quality than a stingray, and it can make any sound you like, if you want it to sound like a jazz, i'm fairly sure jons good at making basses sound like jazzes, or precisions, or have whatever tone you want them to have. most of the cheaper boutique bass builders are good at making necks how you ask them to, so yes, maybe a £3000 bass might end up with a nicer neck than a £1500 one, but if the £1500 bass is playable and has a nice neck anyway, is it really worth it for that neck thats a little nicer?

i suppose i'm arguing pretty much the same as i argued for sound, that if a £1500 bass is nice, but a £3000 bass is nicer, whether that be for sound, playability, build quality, looks, anything really, i personally wouldn't be able to justify all the extra money that some people play for a "nicer" bass when you could pay much less for a "nice" bass. i don't think i'm making my point very well, i have a tendacy to ramble a lot, but i hope im making my point.

really it doesnt matter what i think, what you think, what anyone thinks except the person buying the bass. if they think the extra money is worth the extra quality, then thats fine by me. i don't think i could ever spend much more than £2000 on a boutique bass though, when i can get a perfectly nice shuker for less.[/quote]

It's precisely because in your head you have set a £2000 limit to what you would spend on a bass that you question why anyone would want anything above it. If say you won the lottery and had £10 million I am sure you would buy a £5000 if it was 1% better than the £2000 one and you liked it more.

My car is worth about £1500-2000. My main bass is worth £3500. I prefer to do this than have a £10000 car because I get more enjoyment from the bass than I would from a car which to me is just a mechanism to get from A to B.

Steve

[Tait]

[quote name='birdy' post='531275' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:07 AM']It's precisely because in your head you have set a £2000 limit to what you would spend on a bass that you question why anyone would want anything above it. If say you won the lottery and had £10 million I am sure you would buy a £5000 if it was 1% better than the £2000 one and you liked it more.

My car is worth about £1500-2000. My main bass is worth £3500. I prefer to do this than have a £10000 car because I get more enjoyment from the bass than I would from a car which to me is just a mechanism to get from A to B.

Steve[/quote]

i don't have a £2000 limit, it was just a number i estmated on the spot. tbh i probably wouldn't spend £1800 on a bass, maybe £1600 after playing it. i suppose it really depends on how much you think its worth. personally, i don't think any bass is worth as much as a lot of basses go for. no matter how nice a bass was, if someone told me it cost £3000, i'd tell them theres not a chance in hell im paying that much for it.

damn right if i had £10 million i wouldnt think twice about spending £5000 on a bass, or buying a ferrari, or even a helicopter and a field near my house to put a helipad in, but the fact is, i just opened my bank statement to find i have £20.12. i'd still think £5000 for a bass is obscene, but then i'd think aww well, i got £10 million, and its a really nice bass, what the hell.

i don't understand what you're trying to say about the car, sorry.

[OldGit]

Ok Tell you why I have a custom bass.
This guy died, quickly, of cancer. He was there then next time I looked he was gone. We weren't friends exactly but I knew him from gigs. It hit hard.


He was about three years older than me.

I was still playing the same beginners kit I'd downgraded to about 10 years before.

At that point I decided that life was too darn short to play an average bass through an average amp and I started saving.

I sold a few things, raided the savings and ordered the Shuker. I did it for me. I don't care if it sounds good to anyone one else but me. I like it when a fellow bass player plays it and it takes an hour to get them to stop smiling but mostly I like it when I put it on and it feels like home.

I've got used to the fact that the average punter can't tell it from a Squier (or a strat for that matter) that's really not important.The overriding reason it's so good [b]for me[/b] is that [b]it's all about me[/b].

There you go.

[Tait]

[quote name='OldGit' post='531283' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:23 AM']Ok Tell you why I have a custom bass.
This guy died, quickly, of cancer. He was there then next time I looked he was gone. We weren't friends exactly but I knew him from gigs. It hit hard.

He was about three years older than me.

I was still playing the same beginners kit I'd downgraded to about 10 years before.

At that point I decided that life was too darn short to play an average bass through an average amp and I started saving.

I sold a few things, raided the savings and ordered the Shuker. I did it for me. I don't care if it sounds good to anyone one else but me. I like it when a fellow bass player plays it and it takes an hour to get them to stop smiling but mostly I like it when I put it on and it feels like home.

I've got used to the fact that the average punter can't tell it from a Squier (or a strat for that matter) that's really not important.The overriding reason it's so good [b]for me[/b] is that [b]it's all about me[/b].

There you go.[/quote]

best reply on this thread IMO.

btw, i'm not having a go at people with custom basses, i play a custom bass (cost me £990), i'm just saying that IMO, it depends on how much it costs as to whether its worth it, and i don't think any £3000 bass will ever be worth that much.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Tait

[birdy]

My point about the car is that I could afford a much better one if I had a lesser bass but I prefer to spend the money on basses as it makes me happier. A boutique bass to me is worth the money. To some people a nice car would be much more important, thats all I meant

Steve

[4000]

[quote name='Tait' post='531247' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:38 PM']i guess, but is it really worth it? don't we make music so that others can listen to it? whats the point in spending an extra £1500 when none of the listeners will notice the difference, really?

i dont know, i understand your point, and its natural for a player to want to sound their best, even if no one else is going to notice, but i just don't see that its worth the silly prices some pay for a boutique bass, to sound that little bit better when no one other than the person playing it is going to tell the difference. especially as i see the point of making music to be solely to please the listeners, i see music as entertainment. but i know others see music as much more than that, and i guess it may be more important to them, but even then i think its difficult to imagine that i could ever spend that much on a bass.[/quote]

Obviously we have a huge difference of perspective here, because ultimately I write and play for [i]my[/i] enjoyment first and foremost. If someone else likes it, fine, if not, fine. There is absolutely no pointing using someone else's opinion as a benchmark for what you want. It might be the entire audience thinks that the best bass sound in the world is Jamerson's when you think it's Mark King's, or vice versa. To be honest half the typical audience wouldn't care what it sounded like as long as they could either hear or feel it. Is that sufficient for you?

My question here would be do you write music, or write your own parts? Do you aspire to your own tone or your own style? Are you striving for something creatively? In essence, is music about creativity to you? It is for me. Entertainment is a hopeful byproduct, but even if no-one else ever listened to my music, I'd still be writing and playing (and let's face it, that's often the case ).

Moving back to the boutique question, and ignoring my personal favourite Ric for the moment, I've played several Shukers (a cross section of styles, from a JJ Sig to headless), although none that were built for me. The Seis I've owned have been far better basses for what I want. My £3.5k Alembic also blew them into the dust, [b]in my opinion[/b]. Which for me is all that counts. So yes, absolutely worth it for me. I wouldn't have paid £1500 for the Shukers I've played because they didn't work for me (although I'm sure John could build something that did), but I was happy paying over £3.5k for the Alembic. Of course YMMV.

Also bear in mind that whereas £3k may seem a fortune to some, it isn't to others. Of course it also depends how much you want something....

Edited July 3, 2009 by 4000

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='530269' date='Jul 2 2009, 09:31 AM']are boutique models worth the hefty price tag?[/quote]

If you buy a boutique bass and you like it, then presumably it's worth it. Er...that's it.

For me, the word 'boutique' conjours up images of plump 'ladies of a certain age' buying spangly evening wear from a dinky little shop somewhere in leafy Cheshire.

May I recommend the term 'Tailored' be substituted. So much more manly.

[thodrik]

My philosophy is really that if you can afford it and it makes you happy, then go for it. Yeah, I know I would get away with playing a cheap Squier bass, and it would get the job done. Hell, if you're adding a bunch of overdrive effects and a chorus etc, most people (who are not dedicated bass-listeners!) wouldn't be a able to tell the sound it makes from a Alembic etc. Would the player notice the difference? Of course they would.

However, for me, if you are just plugging a bass into an amp, there is a big difference between a MIM Fender Jazz and a Nordy. Yeah, a top player will probably still play circles round you with his MIM Fender, but for me he would sound even better through the Nordy. Subjective, I know, but that is my view

I think there should be distinction though between boutique basses and really well made (and albeit more expensvie) basses. I don't think that everything that isn't a Fender, Gibson, Musicman, Rickenbacker etc should be classed as boutique. For me, if you are too frightened to gig with your bass for fear that something might happen to it, you have probably got a boutique bass. I play a Vigier Excess, which I would not at all consider a boutique bass, but rather a really well-made bass that sounds better to my ears than my P-bass and is far less likely to suffer from any build quality issues or fall apart! It has not been sitting in a cupboard, rather it has been used constantly over a three year period and it has never once let me down. Much as I love my Fender, I can't say the same thing about it!

Would I spend 4 plus grand on a Fodera or Alembic that is designed exactly to my specifications? Probably not, until I at least have a well earning job (at which point I will probably no longer be a musician!) But I would, be prepared to spend a bit more than the MIM or even the MIA Fender. If one of the main Guitar builders provides everything you are looking for from a bass then that is great, but if you want something a bit different, you have to be willing to pay for it.

Edited July 3, 2009 by thodrik

[OldGit]

Just thought .. By "boutique" do you mean a custom built bass made for the person who owns it or do you mean a bass you can buy off the wall in a posh bass shop like BassDirect?

Edited July 3, 2009 by OldGit

[Legion]

[quote name='birdy' post='531259' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:51 PM']I think they are worth the money. All of the high end basses I have owned have been exceptional quality instruments and I am not sure why I sold half of them.

How expensive something in depends on your income and outgoings ultimately. If you are unempleyed then £500 is a lot of money to spend on a bass whereas if you have a top job in the city you could maybe earn the £3500 for a Fodera in a week or two.

Bass is my main hobby and I pay for all my gear from gigging so if I drop £3500 on a bass so what as long as I want it and don't go into debt. If I was into speedboats or motorbikes etc I would spend way more money.

Certainly cheaper basses can get the job done very well but you do generally get what you pay for.[/quote]

I'm with Birdy on this - it's all relative isn't it. And not so much relative to what you earn (it is a factor of course) but what you want, my bike cost 10k which is a hell of a lot more than my bass, my car cost 2k. That says it all really. Personally I think people who want to spend 30k on a car are nuts, but thats based on MY values.

All the boutique basses I've laid my hands on have exuded quality and felt great to play. I actually feel embarrassed by that as I think I don't live up to the basses ability, hence I'm going to blend in with a P bass from now on

[OldGit]

[quote name='Legion' post='531420' date='Jul 3 2009, 09:51 AM']I'm with Birdy on this - it's all relative isn't it. And not so much relative to what you earn (it is a factor of course) but what you want, my bike cost 10k which is a hell of a lot more than my bass, my car cost 2k. That says it all really. Personally I think people who want to spend 30k on a car are nuts, but thats based on MY values.

All the boutique basses I've laid my hands on have exuded quality and felt great to play. I actually feel embarrassed by that as I think I don't live up to the basses ability, hence I'm going to blend in with [b]a P bass[/b] from now on [/quote]

"Fender CS Pino Palladino"

ha ha yeah..
Now if that isn't a boooteek bass I'm a person from Holland

[Toasted]

No, they're not worth it. That's why we all play MIM Fenders.

[alexclaber]

Have you looked at the prices of double basses? They make even the most high-end boutique bass guitars seem incredibly cheap. Likewise any other instrument you might find in an orchestra.

And also the price of a really high-end bass is much less than the first year depreciation on an expensive new car. Or the annual interest on a typical mortagage.

Alex

[Legion]

[quote name='OldGit' post='531423' date='Jul 3 2009, 09:54 AM']"Fender CS Pino Palladino"

ha ha yeah..
Now if that isn't a boooteek bass I'm a person from Holland [/quote]

See...thats my sneaky way of having a boutique bass AND hiding it!

[Geoff]

Ultimately whatever bass you buy/have doesnt matter, because when you play a gig the soundguy will turn you down so no-one notices you and when you come to recording you'll get turned down in the mix *grumble grumble*

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='OldGit' post='531407' date='Jul 3 2009, 09:28 AM']Just thought .. By "boutique" do you mean a custom built bass made for the person who owns it or do you mean a bass you can buy off the wall in a posh bass shop like BassDirect?[/quote]

By 'boutique' I was referring to any bass 2K upward, but custom-built counts.

[ped]

This topic comes up all the time when I visit watch forums. So many people say 'why spend a few grand on an automatic watch when a £10 quartz keeps better time?'

Half the time you can't even see my watch because it is under a cuff or something. I don't care if nobody notices, I didn't buy it for anyone else - but it is something I can be proud of, something that serves as a reminder of a milestone in my life and a piece of engineering which I am fascinated by, but 99% of the people I meet would be getting a straight jacket ready.

With 'custom' basses the same sort of thing is true - the pleasure comes from playing and owning a comfortable, quality instrument made often specifically for you, the way you like by someone you feel understands your approach and unique style - you are more than a customer.

[Pete Academy]

I wanted to replace my 15 year-old Tobias Classic 5 and had limited funds. I looked at the spec on an Ibanez BTB - thru-neck, great woods, Bartolinis, and a lot less money. I probably should have tried it first, but I went ahead and ordered it. It ended up sounding nothing like and I sold it. Money wasted.

However, I do know the player makes all the difference. Would Jaco have sounded better on a 4K Fodera?

[BarnacleBob]

Pete raises a good point. what if u order a custom bass and u dont like it?
Expecially if u have had input in the build process?

BB

I love boutique basses cos i am an insufferable snob!

[Rich]

If you spend £300 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you.
If you spend £1500 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you.
If you spend £3000 on a bass and it does everything you want and plays how you want it to, then it's worth every penny to you.
etc.

[ped]

There was a similar thread on TB recently (that was locked...) and one guy said something fairly wise

"If you were happy with what you have, you wouldn't criticise what you don't"

;0)

ped

[Tait]

[quote name='ped' post='531498' date='Jul 3 2009, 11:15 AM']There was a similar thread on TB recently (that was locked...) and one guy said something fairly wise

"If you were happy with what you have, you wouldn't criticise what you don't"

;0)

ped[/quote]

i disagree. usually to be happy with something you have, you have to go through lots of things that you don't like to get to the one that makes you happy. you still criticise the ones that didn't make you happy, because if there was nothing to criticise about them, they would've made you happy.

or back to the topic of this thread, if i had £3000, i'd be happier with that £3000 than with a boutique bass, and would still think it's ludicrous to spend that much on a bass, probably even more so when i discover all the other things i could buy that would make me much happier than a single bass. think how many PS3 games and visits to Alton Towers etc. £3000 would buy. i'd probably be even more critical, as the £3000 would back up my opinion that boutique basses aren't worth it. my point is, i'd be happy with the £3000, and still criticise boutique basses.

[ped]

I think he meant in the context of starting a topic about it on a forum as opposed to just thinking it to yourself. I am not having a go, you understand, but the idea resonates with me, at least.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='531452' date='Jul 3 2009, 10:26 AM']By 'boutique' I was referring to any bass 2K upward, but custom-built counts.[/quote]


Oh Well that counts me out then
Scrub all I've said

[OldGit]

[quote name='BarnacleBob' post='531476' date='Jul 3 2009, 10:50 AM']Pete raises a good point. what if u order a custom bass and u dont like it?
Expecially if u have had input in the build process?

BB

I love boutique basses cos i am an insufferable snob! [/quote]

You do what I've just done and sell it. (my "other" shuker) I ordered the wrong thing. It was built exactly to the specs I asked fro but ... I asked for the wrong thing.
It's finacially and emotionally painful.