Boutique Basses

[Wil]

[Tait]

the original question was "are they worth it?"

it kind of answers its own question, if people didn't think the bass they were buying was worth the amount it cost, they wouldn't buy it. if people think it is, they would. personally i think no bass can possibly be worth 3 grand, others obviously do since they spend 3 grand on a bass. if they didnt think it was worth it, they wouldnt buy it, as thats what "worth" means.

[Waldo]

[quote name='Rich' post='534918' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:18 PM']Made by the Stradivarius of the computer game world, and that really is the reality of the situation.


EDIT: perhaps that should be the Amstradivarius..?[/quote]

Oh no you didn't......

[Stan_da_man]

[quote name='Rich' post='534627' date='Jul 7 2009, 12:14 PM']Did I mention you specifically..?[/quote]
Are you trying to have an argument on purpose?

I'd rather not discuss it on a public forum, please PM me if you have a problem.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Tait' post='534929' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:25 PM']the original question was "are they worth it?"

it kind of answers its own question, if people didn't think the bass they were buying was worth the amount it cost, they wouldn't buy it. if people think it is, they would. personally i think no bass can possibly be worth 3 grand, others obviously do since they spend 3 grand on a bass. if they didnt think it was worth it, they wouldnt buy it, as thats what "worth" means.[/quote]

Just out of interest what would you be prepared to pay for a work of art?

[Musicman20]

I have my heart set on a Coppolo now. its going to be a long way off...but wow. Has to be J Bass style, 5 strings, with plate, 70s pickup spacing, maple neck, block inlays.

[Rich]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='534933' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:29 PM']Are you trying to have an argument on purpose?

I'd rather not discuss it on a public forum, please PM me if you have a problem.[/quote]
Not at all, neither the 5 minute argument nor the full half hour. With my point about inverse snobbery, I was merely offering a counterpoint to your original statement... I wasn't talking about any one person in particular, any more than you were. OK?

[51m0n]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='534938' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:33 PM']I have my heart set on a Coppolo now. its going to be a long way off...but wow. Has to be J Bass style, 5 strings, with plate, 70s pickup spacing, maple neck, block inlays.[/quote]

I played Birdy's when I went and got the HT115 off him. Honestly, the best jazz stylee bass I've ever played. Not that I've done the rounds on super jazzes, but I've had a go on a few.

Really lovely looking thing too!

[Musicman20]

Yes....the are fantastic basses. I had a good chat with Darren at the Bass Merchant, and I emailed Jimmy @ Coppolo. They both said to just take my time, have a god think, ask questions, try one out where poss.

Im planning on making it a 30th birthday type purchase...which is still nearly two years away, so maybe thats too long!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='534965' date='Jul 7 2009, 06:05 PM']Yes....the are fantastic basses. I had a good chat with Darren at the Bass Merchant, and I emailed Jimmy @ Coppolo. They both said to just take my time, have a god think, ask questions, try one out where poss.

Im planning on making it a 30th birthday type purchase...which is still nearly two years away, so maybe thats too long![/quote]
Hang on. Something better will be available by then!

[bythesea]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='534965' date='Jul 7 2009, 06:05 PM']Im planning on making it a 30th birthday type purchase...which is still nearly two years away, so maybe thats too long![/quote]
Or maybe you should order it now to make sure you get it for your birthday

[Musicman20]

Good points!

Im hoping I have most the money 6 months before I want it...so a year and a half, just under.

Its that...or a top notch Sadowsky. No more basses until then! Unless I find another great 5-er to keep me going.

[4000]

[quote]There have been one or two quips that people have made about cheap instruments being better than "boutique" basses. In which way? If it is the playability, then I agree it could be the case, but only if the boutique bass has not been setup properly, or set up to the individuals requirements.[/quote]

"Better" is entirely subjective either way. You could certainly argue that most boutiques are far better built than most cheap basses, but beyond that it all comes down to taste. I've played boutiques I wouldn't give you tuppence for, and cheap basses I've loved. One of the worst basses (for me) I have ever played was an F Bass, which qualifies in my eyes as boutique. I'd add a 6 string Fodera to that; I found it utterly unplayable, and I've found many boutiques to be awful-sounding to my ears. However I've also played some that are extraordinary. I'm on my 4th Sei bass, I've had 2 Alembics and one Pedulla and they've all been superb. I've had others (Wal, Jaydee) that I've liked but not as much, and a couple (Status, early Warwick if you can count either) that haven't really worked for me. Same goes for the cheap basses. Last time I went to the Gallery to pick up my Sei 5 I played a lot of the basses in the shop (as I always do) and one of my absolute favourites was an Ibanez SR506 at £500 approx. Again, if someone wants to sound like Geddy Lee or JJ Burnel (yes, I'm aware of his Shuker) or Lemmy, they might not want boutique; in this instance, boutique is probably [i]not[/i] better. If they're more of a Victor Wooten, then maybe it is. Sophistication isn't what everyone wants. Myself, I move freely between the two; I love Richard Bona et al, and I love Lemmy et al too.

[quote][url="http://www.seibass.com/millenium.html"]This one[/url] is the best bass I have ever picked up and bought, because it is as close to perfection and my requirements as I could want. And the main reason for my buying decision was not only the people I was buying it from, but the lifetime warranty that came with it.
And it happened to be the most expensive. Not a coincidence.[/quote]

I agree, your bass is one of the best I've ever played, probably in my top 3. It's a fabulous work of art, built by my favourite UK luthier (and a great bloke), and it oozes class. It plays amazingly IMO and also IMO sounds pretty much as good as you can imagine. But you know what? I did a direct comparison with my '72 Ric, and I preferred the sound of the Ric. That may be the only bass I would prefer the sound of, but it does count, for me. Is your Sei better built? Absolutely. Is it more sophisticated? Absolutely. But that is not always what people want. Our guitarist, after years of playing US PRS and US Hamers, recently switched to playing Crafters. Why? Because he likes them better. Sounds mad, but if it works for him...

[Waldo]

So basically, people have different tastes.

[4000]

[quote name='Waldo' post='535224' date='Jul 7 2009, 10:26 PM']So basically, people have different tastes.[/quote]

Yup. Took me a while to say that didn't it?

[Waldo]

[quote name='4000' post='535284' date='Jul 7 2009, 11:13 PM']Yup. Took me a while to say that didn't it?[/quote]

I think it's taken a while for anyone to say it

[4000]

[quote name='Waldo' post='535285' date='Jul 7 2009, 11:14 PM']I think it's taken a while for anyone to say it [/quote]

[Tait]

[quote name='51m0n' post='534936' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:32 PM']Just out of interest what would you be prepared to pay for a work of art?[/quote]

i guess we're talking art as paintings, sculptures etc? i'm not really interested in art, i have a few posters of bands i like on my bedroom walls and some photos from my school prom and visits to alton towers. oh, and a little statue of a fencer i got for christmas. thats all the art i own. i might be willing to spend more if something really caught my eye, but tbh i wouldn't spend too much.

but art also includes movies, music, books, i'd even class some of the basses you see as a work of art. arts in loads of things, would you class a car (the way they look) as art? i would.

to answer your question, i'd be prepared to pay what i think its worth. if i saw a poster of my favourite band, but it cost £25, i wouldn't buy it. £25 for a poster is a rip off. yet i'm willing to pay £40 for a videogame (and the graphics on those is definatly art), because i think the videogame is worth it (not so much for the art, but for the amusement it gives).

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='4000' post='535284' date='Jul 7 2009, 11:13 PM']Yup. Took me a while to say that didn't it?[/quote]

Words of wisdom at last!

[thisnameistaken]

If the last 50 years of popular music have taught us anything it's that nobody needs a £2000 bass guitar, but since when did anyone ever make rational gear-buying decisions?

For some people they're pretty enough to justify the price, for others maybe their ego needs a fancier-than-thou bass, I suspect a tiny fraction of players can actually feel/hear the benefit of all that craftsmanship, and no doubt a good proportion pretend they can in an Emperor's New Bass kind of way. But ultimately if the buyer's happy and the band sounds good it doesn't really matter does it.

Personally I'm too scruffy to have a boutique bass, but it is nice to see something other than a Fender/Musicman/Warwick sometimes.

[skankdelvar]

Are boutique instruments a particularly 'bass player' thing?

I don't seem to be seeing quite as many people playing boutique guitars these days. (Though I wouldn't mind a Trussart T-type)

Or boutique drumkits, keyboards or vocal mikes.

Edited July 8, 2009 by skankdelvar

[4000]

[quote name='Tait' post='535303' date='Jul 7 2009, 11:36 PM']i guess we're talking art as paintings, sculptures etc? i'm not really interested in art, i have a few posters of bands i like on my bedroom walls and some photos from my school prom and visits to alton towers. oh, and a little statue of a fencer i got for christmas. thats all the art i own. i might be willing to spend more if something really caught my eye, but tbh i wouldn't spend too much.

but art also includes movies, music, books, i'd even class some of the basses you see as a work of art. arts in loads of things, would you class a car (the way they look) as art? i would.

to answer your question, i'd be prepared to pay what i think its worth. if i saw a poster of my favourite band, but it cost £25, i wouldn't buy it. £25 for a poster is a rip off. yet i'm willing to pay £40 for a videogame (and the graphics on those is definatly art), because i think the videogame is worth it (not so much for the art, but for the amusement it gives).[/quote]

You see there are people who spend millions on art. As someone who trained in that area, I can see why. Owning an original Van Gogh, Degas, Monet, Vermeer etc would be incredible, for me and many others in the world. Art isn't simply about function, it's about the soul (without wishing to sound too pretentious). I suspect you wouldn't feel that way, hence why you may find it difficult to truly understand why some people spend so much on boutique basses. I also believe that many of the people who buy boutique instruments see them as such (me included), in a way that you probably don't. But as previously stated, people just see these things differently, no right or wrong. The trick is [i]understanding & accepting[/i] that people don't all see things the same way.

The core of many of these types of discussions seems to be "I don't feel that way about something so why should someone else?", but why should we all feel the same? Do we all like the same types of food, find the same people attractive? Do we all like the same types of music, or the same clothes? The same books and films? Do the same things interest us in life? Do we all have the same priorities in life, beyond the obvious? No.

Edited July 8, 2009 by 4000

[OldGit]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='535336' date='Jul 8 2009, 01:10 AM']Are boutique instruments a particularly 'bass player' thing?

I don't seem to be seeing quite as many people playing boutique guitars these days. (Though I wouldn't mind a Trussart T-type)

Or boutique drumkits, keyboards or vocal mikes.[/quote]


Interesting point.
I was talking to the guys at Jam Guitars in Bristol. They have a shop full of boutique guitars and said they thought it was a much smaller market than the one for custom basses.
[url="http://www.jamguitars.co.uk/guitarmenu.htm"]Jam Guitars - Guitars[/url]

That's a Fibenare "Erotic" - from £1800...

[url="http://www.jamguitars.co.uk/bassguitarmenu.htm"]Jam Guitars - basses[/url]

There are boutique/custom sax makers too

[urb]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='535336' date='Jul 8 2009, 01:10 AM']Are boutique instruments a particularly 'bass player' thing?

I don't seem to be seeing quite as many people playing boutique guitars these days. (Though I wouldn't mind a Trussart T-type)

Or boutique drumkits, keyboards or vocal mikes.[/quote]

I think there have always been custom instruments made for different musicians - mainly because the more advanced players found the more bog standard designs limited them or didn't have the sonic qualities they were looking for - check out Pat Metheny's Picasso guitar with 42 strings, to him it makes perfect sense and he makes beautiful music on it. Likewise John McLaughlin has a $10000 Wechter guitar with gold tuning pegs etc... I think even James Hetfield from Metallica plays some kind of custom axe.

Bass players are just catching up IMO - and remember the price of a decent double bass starts at £20,000 and goes up... and forget thinking about a rare/vintage violin which can run to £250K and upwards - so £2000 or £3000 for a beautifully made custom bass is pretty resonable in the scheme of things.

M

[andy67]

These threads always pose great questions and give some great opinions.

My questions would be...

I'll set the scenario first: Two players with outstanding quality, one plays a standard workmanlike bass the other plays an expensive boutique bass, both have similar amplification. Both of these players can turn their hands to play anything but for argument s sake lets say both are funk/jazz impresarios.

What would make a £10,000 instrument worth more than a £1000 instrument? considering tonally these two players sound similar and are both highly thought of and sought after - put the names in if you know who they are - just what makes or what are you getting more of in the higher cost bass?

andy

Edited July 8, 2009 by andy67