Barefaced On Tour

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='576802' date='Aug 21 2009, 04:01 PM']like it's challenging me to really push it. [/quote]

But when your amps explode, thats just bad luck.

Bear in mind the amound of very large cabs that have passed through the house of bass, including the folded horn 18.

When I got it back last night, I passed a band loading out from the venue next door, pretty funny to be passing them carrying a 15" cab in one hand and be able to unlock the door with the other, no troubles.

[Roob]

Fantastic idea.

However looking at the list, I will probably have saved up the pennies and bought one before it reaches Ipswich!

[Mr. Foxen]

Just had a mate rag it at a gig, there was some concern it might blow up, but I assured him we had a reputation to maintain. Had no response from Sk8 about taking it from me, Apex is next up, but hoping to hear from him.

[Uncle Balsamic]

How long is each person keeping the cab?

[Protium]

[quote name='Uncle Balsamic' post='577995' date='Aug 23 2009, 01:43 AM']How long is each person keeping the cab?[/quote]

Can we also keep track of where they are up to?

[Finbar]

Arrived with me from casapete today. Sorry I wasn't in to meet you Pete! Not had a chance to use it yet, but my initial reactions are that it is a well finished cab. The rhino style covering is something I'm familiar with from my Schroeder, but I like it The grilll is also very sturdy - less bendy than my Schroeder. The weight is noticably lighter than my current 1212L, although it is both taller and wider by a couple of inches (laid sideways), and maybe an inch shallower. Looks nice though

I do like the single speakon jack in the top corner on the back - spent a while looking in the centre of the back of the cab wondering where the input was XD The single strap is easily enough to carry it by, although I still think I would have preferred a two handle solution - maybe one on each side, or one on the side and one on the top. Carrying it through doorways and into cars of varying sizes means the one handle isn't always in the right place.

Pretty much my experiences and feedback with it will be comparing it to my Schroeder, as that is what I have to hand and fresh in my memory I have a feeling a few people might appreciate the comparison though.

Have a practice on Tuesday where I'll use it. Might also go to the practice room tomorrow to give it a proper indepth A/B on my own. Gig Thursday where I'll hopefully be using it too, and then I'll pass it on

[casapete]

[quote name='casapete' post='571421' date='Aug 17 2009, 10:33 AM']Just received the Compact for my trial period.
Am using it with a Gallien Krueger 700RB11 head and a Musicman Sterling bass.

Used it last night in a small club with my band. Lineup is voc/guit/keys/trpt/tnr sax/drums and bass, doing covers of all sorts.
The stage was tiny (especially for 7 fat lads), so I was crammed in a corner next to the (incredibly loud)drummer.
Initial impressions very favourable. After altering my eq settings (usually use a 4x10) around a bit, ended up with a good rounded
sound with a surprising amount of lower mids too. Cab performed effortlessly throughout 2x60 min sets, remaing clear and loud.
Had to run my amp slightly up on the master vol to my 'normal' setting (my usual cab is 4 ohm,so guess thats why?), but still had plenty left.
All the band were amazed at the performance of something so compact and light.

Although not ideal testing situation, certainly has made me think it would be able to cope with most of my gigs okay. And how good to be able to walk into the gig with my amp in one hand and speaker in the other,both weighing nearly the same! So important to me following an arm injury which has left me difficulties with handling heavy cabs. Am going to be seriously considering putting an order in.

Will report back from any other gigs before reluctantly passing on to the next guy on the list - Finbar in S.Yorks.
Great idea for getting the cabs heard Alex - good luck with your business mate, and thank you.[/quote]

Following on from the above, have used the Compact in 3 more gigs during my week with it.

First was a wedding gig with the 7 piece band, again using my Sterling and GK700 head. Large room, used the DJ's PA via our mixer.
Bass sounded great,loud and full but still enough top. Turned down my DI output as it was almost not needed!

Next up was my weekly gig with my country-rock band. Medium sized pub room,noted for being a bright and loud sounding room anyway it has to be said.
Just mainly vocals through the PA. Again used my Sterling bass but this time with a Gallien 800RB head,which is my favourite amp - not as loud as the GK700 but still punchy. The Compact again performed brilliantly,and compared more than favourably with the large 2x15 EV loaded cab that I normally use on this gig, especially when considering it's size and weight.

Last gig was on Saturday night at a very swish wedding in West Sussex. Played some quiet jazzy standards outside on a terrace in the afternoon sun-the cab sounded fine at lower volume too,and again it's small dimensions made the job easier. Afterwards moved the band into adjoining barn conversion for the evening do-band crammed into a tiny corner of the room/lots of drunk punters etc etc. Through all this the Compact cut through fine again, and remained so all evening

So regretfully took the cab over to Sheffield yesterday for Finbar to try. Have really enjoyed using the Compact, and it has certainly changed my ideas on what I actually need to take to my gigs now! Will hopefully be placing an order with Alex in the not too distant future.
For anyone who is on the list to try it out, would recommend using the cab in as many differing situations as you can manage, especially on gigs where you already know the room sound etc so you can make an informed opinion on how it performs. Am sure you'll be impressed like I have been.

Thanks again to Alex for setting up the 'tour'.
Cheers,
Pete.

[sk8]

I'm in the process of sorting it out to get it collected. I 've been away for the weekend

[Finbar]

First impressions having played through it...

Only used it for a couple of hours at a practice. A bit of background on the band and the setting it would be used in - we are a heavy alt rock group (we've been called a lot of things, but that's what I'd say!), with one bass, one (8 string) guitar, drums and vocals. I go for a pretty aggressive, biting tone with a pick, heavy on the mids and initial attack of the notes to cut through. Our singer wasn't at practice today, so it was just the three of us instrumentally. Perfect testing ground for the cab then I'd say.

We probably actually practice louder than we gig by the way, conversely o_O

Ended up bridging my PLX1202 into it to squeeze the most I could out of the cab. So that's 700W into the 8 ohm cab. I immediately noticed having to crank my amp up a lot louder to match what the Schroeder was pushing out. It was engaging the red clip lights on the QSC, so I don't think I could really get it much louder with this setup. Although I would like a new power amp with slightly more power, I can't use this as an excuse to do so! I'm thinking this is because the 1212L is a 4 ohm cab, and the Compact is an 8, as well as that the Schroeder has a midrange bump right where you can really hear it. I could imagine a 4 ohm Compact being a formidable beast, and despite what Alex says about not needing it, I'd be more likely to splash out on one I think.

The sound of the cab is I'd say quite even, but the focus to my ears seems to be in the low end. I don't have a bassy sound at all with my bass, but even with huge amounts of my bass being EQ'd out of the amp, it was still bassier than I was used to. Not necessarily a bad thing, just not what I'm used to. HOWEVER, it more than handles that low end. This has a huge amount of low end handling without farting out. HUGE. The drummer and guitarist commented on the bass having a lot of force and push in the low end today, and while I don't feel it cut through quite so effortlessly as I'm used to, it handled my octave pedal and the insane low end one of my delay effects makes (hard to explain) admirably. Far better than the Schroeders would. Handled all the effects I threw at it perfectly, though I haven't thrown the full weight of my pedalboard at it yet, just about 5 effects so far.

So my initial response is pretty favourable!

I plan to take the cab to a gig on Thursday, so we'll see how it does out on the road!

My next plan is to try the cab out with my Tonehammer for a more typical bass sound, and also with a Low Pass Filter. I am going to test it out as the 'sub' unit for my rig using that. I use one clean cab, and one with all my effects through it. I am thinking that it isn't going to be the biting aggression monster that the Schroeder is - the Schroeder just inherently does that better I think due to its colouration. However, I think it could do the super clean low end with plenty of punch thing that the Schroeder doesn't handle so well. Whether it has the volume to keep up with the rest of my rig/band, that remains to be seen.

Further more indepth tests are ahead though, so I will keep you all posted on my thoughts!

Edited August 25, 2009 by Finbar

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Finbar' post='580833' date='Aug 26 2009, 12:00 AM']I'm thinking this is because the 1212L is a 4 ohm cab, and the Compact is an 8, as well as that the Schroeder has a midrange bump right where you can really hear it.[/quote]

It's definitely not a power/impedance issue, it's midrange sensitivity. Where were you standing relative to the cab? Pointing it at your ears will help you hear its midrange and treble better.

That must have been loud! How often/for how long were the clip/limit LEDs lighting?

Alex

[Finbar]

Well the Compact sounds like it would happily accept more power if I had more to give it, so I don't think giving it some more juice would hurt the situation! But I was standing anything from a foot away to the cab to 12+ feet away, as well as having feedback from people scattered around the room. It was raised, sitting on top of my other 1212L, so it was at a good height for being able to hear it. Can definitely 'feel' it more though.

The clip lights would come on (not fully lit) if I played loud in louder sections of songs. I didn't like it doing that - I wound it down so it would only just start to make the clip light flutter when I played as hard as I could. I do play hard quite a lot though.

In other news, tomorrow's gig has been cancelled, so I'm only going to have maybe another practice with it and a little more tinkering time just on my own with the cab before I pass it on now. Gutted

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Finbar' post='581808' date='Aug 26 2009, 07:47 PM']Well the Compact sounds like it would happily accept more power if I had more to give it, so I don't think giving it some more juice would hurt the situation! But I was standing anything from a foot away to the cab to 12+ feet away, as well as having feedback from people scattered around the room. It was raised, sitting on top of my other 1212L, so it was at a good height for being able to hear it. Can definitely 'feel' it more though.

The clip lights would come on (not fully lit) if I played loud in louder sections of songs. I didn't like it doing that - I wound it down so it would only just start to make the clip light flutter when I played as hard as I could. I do play hard quite a lot though.[/quote]

I don't think extra power is going to make all that much difference. However I would encourage you to push the amp a little harder - the limiters on the PLX are good and should get you another 3dB of output before sounding bad. You don't want the LEDs lighting up all the time but having them come on full brightness on big notes isn't going to be a problem - clip LEDs on 25% of the time should be fine. I think you're the kind of player that would prefer the midrange output of the Big One or the Midget - the Compact may be flat through the midrange (and quite attenuated in the lows) but compared to your Schroeder which is very midrangey and has almost no true bottom I can see why you'd think it was bassy sounding. You might like to try some more aggressive EQing in the midrange to help with that.

Alex

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I always avoid the clip lights coming on my Aguilar AG500 at all costs - is this wrong?

Mark

[quote name='alexclaber' post='582140' date='Aug 27 2009, 08:23 AM']I don't think extra power is going to make all that much difference. However I would encourage you to push the amp a little harder - the limiters on the PLX are good and should get you another 3dB of output before sounding bad. You don't want the LEDs lighting up all the time but having them come on full brightness on big notes isn't going to be a problem - clip LEDs on 25% of the time should be fine. I think you're the kind of player that would prefer the midrange output of the Big One or the Midget - the Compact may be flat through the midrange (and quite attenuated in the lows) but compared to your Schroeder which is very midrangey and has almost no true bottom I can see why you'd think it was bassy sounding. You might like to try some more aggressive EQing in the midrange to help with that.

Alex[/quote]

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='582185' date='Aug 27 2009, 09:32 AM']I always avoid the clip lights coming on my Aguilar AG500 at all costs - is this wrong?[/quote]

Trust your ears instead - clip lights can be calibrated so many different ways. Having a clip light on most of the time is bad but I'd expect to see clip lights flickering frequently when you're working an amp hard. Bear in mind that before we had 300W+ amps your amp would have been clipping loads at gigs but back then no-one put clip lights on anything so we didn't worry about it!

Alex

[nottswarwick]

On pro sound web PA forum, they reckon that you should stay out of clipping at all costs - for subs and tops. SO I kind of associate this with all amps. having said that, I used to run a Powermate 1000 to within an inch of its life night after night, clipping into a 2.67 ohm load, and it never missed a beat. Sold it. Wish I still had it.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='582194' date='Aug 27 2009, 09:51 AM']On pro sound web PA forum, they reckon that you should stay out of clipping at all costs - for subs and tops.[/quote]

Usually best not to listen to 'them' or over-generalise across applications!

Bear in mind that clip/limit LEDs light first when limiting. Clipping comes quite a lot later.

If you ever use distortion then you're putting a clipped signal into your cab - doesn't matter whether it comes from a pedal, the preamp or the power amp, it's still the same signal shape. And most guitar sounds rely on clipping at some part of the signal chain, even the 'clean' ones.

Alex

[nottswarwick]

makes sense

[sk8]

Well i've got the compact although whilst i was getting it of Mr. Garcia some backed into my car and cracked the bumper

[joegarcia]

Yikes, sorry to hear that! The parking around here is a nightmare. I'm sure firing it up tonight will put a smile back on your face.

[sk8]

sh*t happens!!! It was a woman who lives in 109

[Finbar]

I think some extra power would probably do me some good - I've fired it up tonight and had a good old play round... I've been using a Schroeder on its own, two Schroeders in parallel, two Schroeders in series with different pres, and the same with a Schroeder and the Compact. My favourite sounding combination with all of them was having a Schroeder running full range with my Ampeg preamp and a few of the pedals I had lying around (Cream Pie, Catalinbread Hyperpak, Boss OC-2, EHX Stereo Memoery Man), but taking almost all of the bass out of the signal, and having a low pass filter sending everything below about 375 Hz to the Compact, through an Aguilar pre. I'm sure that's not the intended use of the cab, but for my setup, that's what I liked

That got me some really beefy sounds. Especially loved the combination of the Hyperpak and OC-2 running at the same time as the Compact - some real old school Chris Wolstenholme sounds going on there. With the Cream Pie on, I had pretty much unbridled Glassjaw style aggression, with a massive low end backing it up. As expected, the mix of the two cabs sounds only comes alive when you're stood a few metres away.

As the Schroeder was pushing basically no low end, it was massively loud compared to the Compact pushing nothing but the lows. I had the Compact going flat out as loud as I could go with it basically. I tested it hard tonight. It got to the point where it would make a very unpleasant brief sound if I played something particularly loud, so I backed off the amount of bass I was putting through it, and also the volume. I didn't want to repeat that - it has a long way to go!

Basically, long story short, I got a blinding sound. Way cool. But I just need more of it. I was loud in the practice room on my own, but I know from experience it isn't loud enough to compete with my band at the highest volume I could push it to, and I do love my headroom.

So basically I'll be handing it over to Sean.Robinson as soon as he's ready to pick it up. But it has left me with some food for thought. What do you suggest Alex? I'd happily swap out my second 'sub' Schroeder for the right solution from you, based on this little experiment. I know it is hard to get what I want in a small cab, but I'd be prepared to go a weeny bit larger (I do have some space issues forced upon me though). I also feel that with me only pushing 200W into the cab, I'm not really getting all that much from it. Would a poweramp upgrade make a lot of sense, or am I actually just pushing the limit of what I can achieve with the Compact in this rig setup? I fancy the look of the PLX2402, but they don't pop up often. Interested to hear what you think, and thanks for the opportunity to try it out/test it to destruction!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Finbar' post='583107' date='Aug 28 2009, 12:27 AM']It got to the point where it would make a very unpleasant brief sound if I played something particularly loud, so I backed off the amount of bass I was putting through it, and also the volume. I didn't want to repeat that - it has a long way to go![/quote]

I know that sound - that's what you get when you push a PLX so hard that it goes beyond what the limiter can control and actually clips properly. Kind of a SHRNARRRKKKK! sound - not pretty. With that kind of power there's no way you were reaching the Compact's limits.

[quote name='Finbar' post='583107' date='Aug 28 2009, 12:27 AM']What do you suggest Alex? I'd happily swap out my second 'sub' Schroeder for the right solution from you, based on this little experiment. I know it is hard to get what I want in a small cab, but I'd be prepared to go a weeny bit larger (I do have some space issues forced upon me though). I also feel that with me only pushing 200W into the cab, I'm not really getting all that much from it. Would a poweramp upgrade make a lot of sense, or am I actually just pushing the limit of what I can achieve with the Compact in this rig setup? I fancy the look of the PLX2402, but they don't pop up often. Interested to hear what you think, and thanks for the opportunity to try it out/test it to destruction![/quote]

Ok, so the Compact is probably loud enough but needs more power. The woofer from the Big One could go in the Compact but there's very little difference in performance until you've got more than 400W to play with. The Double Midget has an edge because of its 4 ohm impedance. Or the woofer from the Big Baby into the Double Midget but that only shows an advantage if you have more than 700W. My inclination would be to go for the Double Midget with the standard drivers - that will beat your 1212L for voltage sensitivity and thus perform better right now, but if you can afford more power in the future then you'll gain substantial headroom. If you then wanted to make the rig smaller you could replace the top 1212L with a Midget (if you like the tone of the Double Midget for your fullrange/dirty sound), which would have plenty of power handling and sensitivity to deal with all your 300Hz+ demands.

Alex

[sk8]

had a chance to practice with it last night. Its got a good bottom end!

[Finbar]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='583220' date='Aug 28 2009, 09:06 AM']I know that sound - that's what you get when you push a PLX so hard that it goes beyond what the limiter can control and actually clips properly. Kind of a SHRNARRRKKKK! sound - not pretty. With that kind of power there's no way you were reaching the Compact's limits.[/quote]
That is exactly the sound I got, haha. Well described there!
[quote]Ok, so the Compact is probably loud enough but needs more power. The woofer from the Big One could go in the Compact but there's very little difference in performance until you've got more than 400W to play with. The Double Midget has an edge because of its 4 ohm impedance. Or the woofer from the Big Baby into the Double Midget but that only shows an advantage if you have more than 700W. My inclination would be to go for the Double Midget with the standard drivers - that will beat your 1212L for voltage sensitivity and thus perform better right now, but if you can afford more power in the future then you'll gain substantial headroom. If you then wanted to make the rig smaller you could replace the top 1212L with a Midget (if you like the tone of the Double Midget for your fullrange/dirty sound), which would have plenty of power handling and sensitivity to deal with all your 300Hz+ demands.

Alex[/quote]
So basically what I'm getting from this is that I need more power from my power amp to really get the benefit of the more 'subby' cabs? Which is pretty much as I expected. I don't think it is worth me mucking around changing cabs until I have some more power basically. Which will be a while at the moment. I'd really like an amp with around 700W a side, but I can't afford one right now. So my question really is if power is no limit, what cab/driver would serve me best for the clean, loud, sub-350Hz signal, rather than going for compromises. If as you say, you can fit a woofer suited more for low end into a cab the size of the Compact, that sounds like it would be best? But correct me if I'm wrong!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Finbar' post='586968' date='Sep 1 2009, 09:49 PM']So basically what I'm getting from this is that I need more power from my power amp to really get the benefit of the more 'subby' cabs? Which is pretty much as I expected. I don't think it is worth me mucking around changing cabs until I have some more power basically. Which will be a while at the moment. I'd really like an amp with around 700W a side, but I can't afford one right now. So my question really is if power is no limit, what cab/driver would serve me best for the clean, loud, sub-350Hz signal, rather than going for compromises. If as you say, you can fit a woofer suited more for low end into a cab the size of the Compact, that sounds like it would be best? But correct me if I'm wrong! [/quote]

Well based on everything you've said I don't think you want the extended lows of the Big One / Big Baby (or sub variants). I've just been doing some investigating and it looks like the ports on the Double Midget are big enough to handle the air movement from the 3012LFs, especially as you're not into super-deep bottom (I think what really matters to you is the 60-200Hz region). The Double Midget will be an inch or two taller than the Compact, otherwise identical in size. My guess is that with equal power your 1212L will have an average of 1.5dB advantage above 100Hz vs a 'Double Midget Bottom' but no advantage vs a Double Midget. Below 100Hz both Barefaced cabs would have a ~4dB advantage. I think your 1212L can handle maybe 350W in the lows, whilst the Double Midget can handle 700W and the 'Double Midget Bottom' (not a sub because it doesn't go low enough) a truly ridiculous 1350W.

However, how likely are you to get a power amp with much more than 700W per channel into 4 ohms? I'd lean towards getting a PLX2 1804, 900W/ch @ 4 ohms and using that with a standard Double Midget. If you want to be truly ridiculous then a 'Double Midget Bottom' (need a better name for that!) will go about 3dB louder but only if you have that extra power.

Comprendez?

Alex