'Custom Shop', 'Limited Edition', 'Anniversary' blah blah blah

[Beedster]

Just been looking through some bass manufacturers websites. Do you remember that classic moment when Dennis Pennis fronted Demi Moore at some film premier or other and asked her whether, if the part demanded it and the script was right, she'd consider keeping her clothes on in a movie. Well I wanna ask some bass manufacturers if they'd consider making a bass that isn't Custom Shop, Reissue, Limited Edition, Anniversary etc etc etc. It seems that these days it's hard to find one, and - I've owned three Fender Custom Shop basses, a couple of Anniversary models and a Limited Edition so have some idea - given it's often hard to tell the difference between the standard model and the more expensive version, and that's being bloody generous to Fender's Custom Shop, does anyone feel like I do that many manufacturers are simply taking the p*ss?
Rant over
Chris

Edited September 5, 2007 by Beedster

[P-T-P]

Yes, Fender especially.

There are currently 24 different jazz basses (excluding 5 string and fretless variations), and thatof course doesn't include the MIJ non-export models that anyone seems able to buy if they want one.

I think it's fair enough if you bring out one special edition bass a year, like Warwick do, that is a significant departure from the normal version of one of the standard models. And of course if you build basses to order, then offering a bunch of custom options is fair enough.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Yes indeedy... The Fender custom shop prices beggar belief! I could never justify a CS jazz when I could have another fully loaded custom made Status or Alembic (well, almost!) for the same money!

Quite often there are some gems to be found in the lower ranges as well. I've played stock MIM Jazzes which seriously outshone supposedly superior USA models! In fact the last three brand new USA P-basses I played were utter crap and should've been sent back to the factory to be finished properly! (And the last two Mex P-basses were gems. I'm thinking of getting one!)

I 'dabble' in a little g****r at times & I was surprised that my £370 Epiphone LP 56 Gold Top outshines my band's guitarist's white/gold Gibson LP Custom Shop instrument at around £2800!!!

At the end of the day, it's down to the player and what fits them. I'd rather have a £400 bass that feels right and produces the sound I like, as opposed to a £2-3000 model which has all the prestige but none of the playability.

Perhaps Chris is right... Are be being ripped off?

[carlosfandango]

Not to mention all "endorsed" signature basses out there!

I guess the manufacturers needs to do it to keep up the interest for their products.
it's quite amazing when you think of it - the electric guitar was invented in the early 50's (well, it depends how you see it) and it became a "perfect" product very fast - very few really groundbreaking changes to the basic concept in over 50 years! Quite unique if you compare to other consumer products like home electronics and cars. So if you can't change the product - change the packaging!

Do we really need that many options - not really. But you have to admit that is kinda fun to glance through the latest fender catalogue and compare different versions of a jazz bass and dream about which one that would suit your style best.

Variety is the spice of life.

[Mikey D]

[quote name='carlosfandango' post='55864' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:34 PM']Not to mention all "endorsed" signature basses out there![/quote]

I want to point out the exception of the gary willis GWB35 which is probably the best value 'signature' bass out there (and if not one of the best mass produced fretless basses out there).

If more companies applied themselves like this there would be a lot more good value, great basses compatred to a million and one types of fender jazz.

[birdy]

Just to add a different perspective to the debate I own a fender custom shop at the moment and its one of the nicest playing and sounding basses that I have owned. To my hands and ears it's much nicer than the standard US or deluxe models.

I get the point about the number of models etc however :-)

Steve

[simon1964]

[quote name='carlosfandango' post='55864' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:34 PM']Not to mention all "endorsed" signature basses out there![/quote]

I do wonder whether the whole ''signature'' thing can be counter productive. Take the Fender Mike Dirnt. Ignoring the endorsement, you actually get a really good spec - split P-up on 50s P body, Badass as standard, etc. But I suspect some people would simply dismiss the bass because they don't like Green Day. Similarly the Mark Hoppus, or the Ibanez Fieldy thing. Are manufacturers actually limiting their audience on these?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='simon1964' post='56062' date='Sep 5 2007, 04:56 PM']I do wonder whether the whole ''signature'' thing can be counter productive. Take the Fender Mike Dirnt. Ignoring the endorsement, you actually get a really good spec - split P-up on 50s P body, Badass as standard, etc. But I suspect some people would simply dismiss the bass because they don't like Green Day. Similarly the Mark Hoppus, or the Ibanez Fieldy thing. Are manufacturers actually limiting their audience on these?[/quote]

Well put.
A good instrument is a good instrument, whoever manufactured it, and whoever subsequently lent their name to it (or not, as the case may be!)
I found a good 'un.
It just happened to be a Billy Sheehan 10th Anniversary model...



And Yamaha are as guilty as most with signature basses from Sheehan, Myung and Pattitucci at the very least!

[warwickhunt]

I totally agree with you Chris, It wasn't so long ago that a special edition meant just that; it was 'special' and worthy of note. Now I wouldn't have the foggiest idea if something was Ltd or 'special' and of late I wouldn't particularly hold Warwick up as being a 'good example', they went through a period where I began to think you couldn't get a bog standard Corvette bass I thought they were ALL Ltd/Sp' Editions.

Don't you just love 'Marketing'? I suppose it keeps someone in a job.

[3V17C]

I like Fenders me, but I totally agree about Fender's so called 'Custom' etc basses. Half the time they just look like and seem to have exactly the same features as the normal versions. I guess they're probably gonna be worth a bit more in the future but aside from that I really don't see alot of point. It wouldn't hurt Fender to be a bit more adventurous from time to time (something they seem to do more with the Squire brand these days).

Also - just about every year, Guitarist magazine (and probably some of the others) has some kind of Fender (Tele/Strat whatever) splashed across the cover with 'Special Fender Anniversary Issue' 50th Anniversary of the Tele! 40th Anniversary of the Strat! there always seems to be [i]something[/i] to celebrate! - 10th anniversary of scraping around for a cover feature more like!!!

peace

c

[3V17C]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='56067' date='Sep 5 2007, 05:05 PM']Well put.
A good instrument is a good instrument, whoever manufactured it, and whoever subsequently lent their name to it (or not, as the case may be!)
I found a good 'un.
It just happened to be a Billy Sheehan 10th Anniversary model...



And Yamaha are as guilty as most with signature basses from Sheehan, Myung and Pattitucci at the very least![/quote]


sell that... to me... NOW!

[Mr. Foxen]

I just realised I spent nearly as much on a pedal as I did on my main basss. Then I had a think and realised that Fender are probably struggling to keep a place in the market as the have pretty much nothing to trade onbut their name. Theres just a limit to how good you can produce a piece of wood with strings on, and theres plenty of competition at that point, the Yamaha stuff is great quality as an example, and theres plenty of no-names that are near as good as a Fender once you switch a few choice pieces of hardware, the downside being that it will hold no value. Will anyone give me £200 for my Johnson P bass? No, its got the wrong name on the headstock, but you have no idea how it plays or sounds. Consequently, manufactureres must keep shooting out products that appear to have a premium value in future, especially considereing its not a consumable product, they are pretty much around forever. Barring Townshend moments. In fact, that last point is probably the most important one.

[OutToPlayJazz]

QUOTE Will anyone give me £200 for my Johnson P bass? No, its got the wrong name on the headstock, but you have no idea how it plays or sounds. Consequently, manufactureres must keep shooting out products that appear to have a premium value in future, especially considereing its not a consumable product, they are pretty much around forever.


I know exactly what you mean... I picked up a couple of cheap Boston P-bass packages for rental & doubled the value of one by putting decent strings on it and setting it up! Okay, so it's not in the league of my other instruments, but it's as good as many p-basses you'll play.

I've also been very impressed by the Crafter Cruiser series... Impecable build quality and great feel/sound.

Remember, if it plays like a bag of sh*te, it probably is a bag of sh*te... The badge really is meaningless!

[d-basser]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='56067' date='Sep 5 2007, 05:05 PM']Well put.
A good instrument is a good instrument, whoever manufactured it, and whoever subsequently lent their name to it (or not, as the case may be!)
I found a good 'un.
It just happened to be a Billy Sheehan 10th Anniversary model...

"[i]attitude image that tkes ages to load[/i]
"
And Yamaha are as guilty as most with signature basses from Sheehan, Myung and Pattitucci at the very least![/quote]

that is one beautiful world of purple! i want one just for the sheer cheese factor

[Bass_Junkie]

only time i'd get a custom bass is probably if fender would make me a custom p-bass special, al black, incl headstock and neck, p/j pups and a jazz neck.

then i'd convinse rotosound to bring back those black rotosound spacers.

EDIT: and yes, i am a MASSIVE duff mckagan fan.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Bass_Junkie

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='d-basser' post='56849' date='Sep 7 2007, 10:15 AM']that is one beautiful world of purple! i want one just for the sheer cheese factor[/quote]

I'd agree.

Until you plug it in and play it.
Then everyone stops laughing. I've recorded with it, and the engineer struggled to keep the bottom end in check. (Live) sound engineers presume it to be active and ask me to roll the bottom end off... It's that "hot" and that deep.
Except it's passive.

Sorry 'bout the large images. I'm spoilt for bandwidth, it seems!

Edit- and for what it's worth, I'd have preferred a black one. I've actually played 4 of these! 2 black, 2 purple. They only made 300. What's 1.33% of the entire production run doing in Essex? Still should've bought that second purple one, though...

Edited September 7, 2007 by Lfalex v1.1

[d-basser]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='57224' date='Sep 7 2007, 10:34 PM']I'd agree.

Until you plug it in and play it.
Then everyone stops laughing. I've recorded with it, and the engineer struggled to keep the bottom end in check. (Live) sound engineers presume it to be active and ask me to roll the bottom end off... It's that "hot" and that deep.
Except it's passive.

Sorry 'bout the large images. I'm spoilt for bandwidth, it seems![/quote]

hmm, one day i will have one, one day when i am rich

dont worry bout the pics, my laptop seems to be having an off day

[Lfalex v1.1]

You REALLY don't want to know what all four of the ones I tried went for...

I guess no-one really likes 'em.

One black model went for £650, the other for £700 (different retailers)
I paid £299 with a case for mine. Which was better than one black one, and more or less the same as the other two
The other purple one went for the same... (I still should've bought it)

(Runs away quickly)

How much do the "standard" Attitude IIs go for? £899 @ GAK...

(Breaks into a sprint)

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Beedster' post='55751' date='Sep 5 2007, 09:57 AM']Just been looking through some bass manufacturers websites. Do you remember that classic moment when Dennis Pennis fronted Demi Moore at some film premier or other and asked her whether, if the part demanded it and the script was right, she'd consider keeping her clothes on in a movie. Well I wanna ask some bass manufacturers if they'd consider making a bass that isn't Custom Shop, Reissue, Limited Edition, Anniversary etc etc etc. It seems that these days it's hard to find one, and - I've owned three Fender Custom Shop basses, a couple of Anniversary models and a Limited Edition so have some idea - given it's often hard to tell the difference between the standard model and the more expensive version, and that's being bloody generous to Fender's Custom Shop, does anyone feel like I do that many manufacturers are simply taking the p*ss?
Rant over
Chris[/quote]
+1 Chris

And that Dennis Pennis sketch was bloody funny!! Back on topic...as usual, it's all about marketing and selling style over substance..

[LukeFRC]

but then us mugs are equally to blame for buying into the whole thing. I mean really what is the difference between a good mid range bass and a 'top' range bass?
If I come to see you play at a local venue will i really be able to tell if your bass lines, heard alongside the rest of your band, through a jack to jack, into a DI (2nd signal from mic infornt of cab), through a XLR cable into a multicore into a sound desk, through EQ, through compressors, through parametric EQ through cables, through an amp through speaker cable and into speakers, then, would i be able to tell the difference between you playing my cheapish CIJ Fender Pbass or your super Anniversary Custom Shop Limeted edition Fender Pbass?
nah thought not

[Kiwi]

The limited edition models DO sell to enthusiasts, you only have to look at the ridiculous number of Ernie Ball limited editions that get released every year and the only significant difference for almost all of them is the paint finish. The Anniversary models sometimes have something else thats different (like a mahogany tone block whatever that is) but they're all snapped up by fans.

As for endorsements, they're the most effective way to sell instruments to people who might otherwise not get a chance to hear or play a bass if a music store isn't convenient. Many younger players will purchase an instrument unplayed and unheard if its played by a famous bass player.

At the end of the day, its all about perceptions of value rather than what you actually get and branding is important to that. You should probably have a go at people who buy these instruments if you feel strongly enough about it. The manufacturers wouldn't do this if people didn't purchase the instruments.

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='57278' date='Sep 8 2007, 06:50 AM']As for endorsements, they're the most effective way to sell instruments to people who might otherwise not get a chance to hear or play a bass if a music store isn't convenient. Many younger players will purchase an instrument unplayed and unheard if its played by a famous bass player.[/quote]

question is, do Mike Dirnt and Frank Bello actually use the Squier Signature Editions named after them on stage???

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='57268' date='Sep 8 2007, 01:56 AM']but then us mugs are equally to blame for buying into the whole thing. I mean really what is the difference between a good mid range bass and a 'top' range bass?
If I come to see you play at a local venue will i really be able to tell if your bass lines, heard alongside the rest of your band, through a jack to jack, into a DI (2nd signal from mic infornt of cab), through a XLR cable into a multicore into a sound desk, through EQ, through compressors, through parametric EQ through cables, through an amp through speaker cable and into speakers, then, would i be able to tell the difference between you playing my cheapish CIJ Fender Pbass or your super Anniversary Custom Shop Limeted edition Fender Pbass?
nah thought not[/quote]

You do get diminishing returns the higher up the scale you go but then again it's the same for most things in life. Georgio Armani might use more expensive materials and labour but doesn't the clothing do the same job as something George produce, a Fiat will get you around the doors from a to B the same as a Ferrari, the average man won't get a better quality of time reading it from a £100,000 watch than he does a £10 (notice how I can't even name 2 watch manufacturers).

You are of course correct, though there is a significant difference between a starter bass and a decent mid/upper priced bass but higher than that you start to get differences rather than greater quality. Ultimately you get what you pay for but as someone who plays a Ltd Ed. bass I'm not about to swap it for a MIM/Far East production line jobbie!

Given the opportunity and choice are you going to drive around in a Ferrari or a Fiat and what will you be wearing and telling the time with?

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='57283' date='Sep 8 2007, 07:51 AM']question is, do Mike Dirnt and Frank Bello actually use the Squier Signature Editions named after them on stage???[/quote]
I think it depends on the player. I've rarely seen Doug Wimbish play his sig Ibanez but Gary Willis uses his regularly.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='57289' date='Sep 8 2007, 08:40 AM']Given the opportunity and choice are you going to drive around in a Ferrari or a Fiat and what will you be wearing and telling the time with?[/quote]
in these green environmentally friendly days the fiat may be better for sitting in a traffic jam in!