Help with my rig (all advice appreciated)

[neptunehealer]

I play in a covers band, we do pubs, weddings, and like last night big marquee gigs.
I have had the same rig since i was 15 and bought blindly and have never felt the need to change since understanding impedance, coming on here and playing bigger venues.
I am after some advice on what i should do to alter my rig to get more power and better colourful tone.

So the rig details are:

Head: Peavey Sessionabass (130w @ 8ohm, 200w @ 4 ohms)
Cab: Laney 4x10 speaker (240w @ 8ohm)

I now understand that that i have been doing these gigs only using 130 watts of power which is scary.
I can add pics of my rig is if it helps but any advice on gear to buy and should i change the cab or the amp itself first will be appreciated.
I will even consider adding a 1x15 maybe to a rig, i just want a good beefy colourful tone.

Budget wise i will look to pay around £500 for the lot obviously looking for second hand gear, and i am only interested in solidstate amps.

Thanx all.

Edited July 5, 2009 by neptunehealer

[umcoo]

Adding a 15' or any other 8ohm cab will usually result in more volume and a more powerful sound. It depends if you're happy with the current sound? Maybe look into effects pedals...be warned though, once you start, you don't stop

[bassmeg]

get somthing from the classifieds on here. £500 will get you some good stuff. the beeps is selling quality eden gear for £700! |(dont know him)

more power required. if outside you also need to be going through the pa. you are not going to be able handle it just through your backline. please forgive me if i am teaching you to suck eggs.

[Bassmanc]

Adding another 8 ohm cab will give you 4 ohms in total - so your amp will produce it's full 200w. It will also be more efficient so a lower volumes you should still hear a cleaner sound. If you duplicate the existing cab with a matching 4x10 you probably won't hear much tonal difference, but a 1x15 will certainly change your sound.

Or you could ditch the laney and get a 4 ohm rig with one or two cabs, depending how much gear you want to carry.

Whilst I agree with the comment about going through a PA my experience is that few sound engineers will get close to the bass sound you've spent years perfecting unless you work hard with them to get it right. I've also found that plenty of headroom on the backline certainly helps when you get on a larger stage and your band are suddnely spread further apart than you're used to at rehearsals.

I've worked semi pro on and off for around 30 years and currently use a 1200w 4 ohm rig, (or half of it for v small venues). There's no such thing as too much power!

[bassmeg]

[/quote]
few sound engineers will get close to the bass sound you've spent years perfecting unless you work hard with them to get it right. I've also found that plenty of headroom on the backline certainly helps when you get on a larger stage and your band are suddnely spread further apart than you're used to at rehearsals.

I've worked semi pro on and off for around 30 years and currently use a 1200w 4 ohm rig, (or half of it for v small venues). There's no such thing as too much power!
[/quote]

+1

Played a marquee last night with my all new Berg nv610. Oh, its nice. Last cab ill be buying for a long time. Whats your 1200 beast then?

Edited July 5, 2009 by bassmeg

[JTUK]

How much power do you think you need...and how much carry space do you have..?
The limiting factor is your amp...it isn't going to get any louder but an ex cab might help here.

I would upgrade the amp 1st and then look at whether your speakers can play any part... ( but remember not to play stupid loud with a new amp as a 240 watt 4x10 isn't that great a spec..
and will not cope so well, IMV on its own if you factor in a 400w amp.. be careful here..

You could push the boat out and look at the Eden combo on here... I think had an ex cab so you could travel 'light' for small gigs and just add anoher cab for outside venues...


You could sell the gear you have to keep the price down on totally outlay..

The newer amps..ie newer than your PV..have pretty good EQ and it is easy to totally screw the sound up by endless twiddling... the mids need particular care inthis regard..

If it were me and I had 300w available... I wouldn't be pushing most single cabs with it...but I run a low B anyway..
For louder gigs I'd carry another..

If you are running mono... then you can have a 2x10 combo and another 2x10...or a 1x15... or..?

[neptunehealer]

Cheers for all your opinions, i am considering gett a GK rb 700ii head, and maybe get a 1x15 cab too.
I would like a min of 300 watts on stage really.
I am currently looking at a Aguilar 1x15 300 watts & 8 ohms cab at the moment.

[Mr Fudge]

I think getting a good head and then worrying about the rest later isn't a bad way to start. I got a MB SA450 and used it with my Ashdown 4x10 for ages. Eventually I upgraded again to some Bergs, but I spent years using Ashdown and I play in a covers band too. I think value for money Ashdown take some beating.

[neptunehealer]

Yes i agree, i am toying with just getting a 1x15 to crank it up to 4 ohms and get 200 watts live.
But i am thinking maybe if i get a more powerfull head then start changing things around is the best and least annoying option.
Wouldn't want to get a new cab then still not being happy with the power output and clarity.

I hear good things about GK so i may roll with these.

Whats the deal with adding a 1x15 do they have a volume control on them, how would i connect it to my 4x10?

My 4x10 has 2 cable inputs on the back which are already used to go into the back of my head?

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='neptunehealer' post='533628' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:20 AM']My 4x10 has 2 cable inputs on the back which are already used to go into the back of my head?[/quote]

Are you currently connecting both outputs on the head to both sockets on the 4x10 cab? I think that shouldn't be necessary.

S.P.

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='533631' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:24 AM']Are you currently connecting both outputs on the head to both sockets on the 4x10 cab? I think that shouldn't be necessary.

S.P.[/quote]

Yes i am, it doesn't work though unless i do this.

[Urban Bassman]

[quote name='neptunehealer' post='533628' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:20 AM']Yes i agree, i am toying with just getting a 1x15 to crank it up to 4 ohms and get 200 watts live.
But i am thinking maybe if i get a more powerfull head then start changing things around is the best and least annoying option.
Wouldn't want to get a new cab then still not being happy with the power output and clarity.

I hear good things about GK so i may roll with these.

Whats the deal with adding a 1x15 do they have a volume control on them, how would i connect it to my 4x10?

My 4x10 has 2 cable inputs on the back which are already used to go into the back of my head?[/quote]


Like You I had a peavy amp for my first gigging rig - it was an old MKIII driving a 2 x10 & 1 x 15 cab. Not bad but then the amp died, so my next rig was a GK700 and a GK 410RBH...believe me this was plenty loud enough and because the 700 is a bi amp you have complete control of your highs, mids and lows and the 4 x 10 goes very low...no problems with Low Bs or Drop Ds. However if 15's are your thing then GK naturally do a 15" verson. I chose a 4 ohm cab so that I could the full power from the amp - if I wanted, and if you are only planning to have one cab I suggest that you consider this. Don't be tempted by the lower price GK Backline cabs they are still good but you can't use the biamp feature on the GK700. My GK rig served me well for a number of years until my advancing years meant that my back no longer cope with the weight of the cab...but if you young and healthy - I'd go for it!

Good luck!

[51m0n]

[quote name='neptunehealer' post='533655' date='Jul 6 2009, 12:05 PM']Yes i am, it doesn't work though unless i do this.[/quote]

Something is broken then

Could be a lead, a connector or who knows, but that is not normal!

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='51m0n' post='533724' date='Jul 6 2009, 01:04 PM']Something is broken then

Could be a lead, a connector or who knows, but that is not normal![/quote]

+1 or are there input/output jacks?

i would agree with what the guys have said upgrade the amp then go from there, this is what i did, i went from a 40w combo amp then started using a vintage trace v4 with matching 412 cab. loved that but the drummer would never have sold it, so i started looking for my own rig, got a orange ad140b and 115 cab but this even tho nice the 140w just wasn't enough unless in a small venue plus with the orange not having a di output for bigger venues was a pain (i know i could have used a di box). i was considering getting the other cab (410) but it would mean lugging around two cabs and i dnt think the volume increase would have been worth it. In the end i decided to trade the orange for an amp with a lot more power (ampeg svt pro-6) and also while at it i decided to go for a one cab system, i choose an ampeg 610hlf really easy to move around and a nice and loud rig.

andy

Edited July 6, 2009 by 0175westwood29

[GreeneKing]

Is there any chance you can borrow another 8 ohm cab from someone nearby before comitting yourself here?

Then if that doesn't do what you want you can start thinking about a new amp.

[chris_b]

[quote name='neptunehealer' post='532952' date='Jul 5 2009, 01:17 PM']....I am after some advice on what i should do to alter my rig to get more power and better colourful tone.....[/quote]
Your gear has done its job for long enough, I think it's time to change the whole rig.

There is an Eden Metro and 210 extension cab for sale here on BC, if you can stretch to £700, which would blow your current rig out of the water! And an Ashdown 410 combo which is in budget and should also sound great.

[JTUK]

Ok...you need a decent head and you are thinking a 2x10 for small gigs and adding a 1x15 for larger gigs. Fine, nothing wrong with that and loads do it and the easiest trade up with a LOT of bang for buck would be the Eden combos sale on here. Worth considering if you can get along with the Eden sound. It is good kit and will be waaaaaay better than what you have, IMV..so an easy upgrade.

I kind of have a problem with running a 2x10 and a 1x15 as both cabs sound different but with a mono signal you are sending 1 set of EQ to be split by the most inefficient element in the signal chain, the speakers, so not much control there.
You could run 2x10 plus 2z10 on a mono signal as the EQ would be split equally tone-wise but some might think a 2x10 doesn't carry the bass you might want..

It is a compromise but people do get good/great sounds out of it. The only other option here is bi-amp with a x-over but then you are shedding £'s.

I only mention the above as you seem to be a bit lost on the way things can work. The vast majority of cabs are passive so they only put out a version of what you put in.
If you have a freq range of 40-12khz for arguments sake, a 15" would 'filter' the lower freqs and a 2x10 would take the highs because they are more able, plus a horn will help even more...
but you can't stop al the bass you put into a 15" getting through to the 10's and they will not handle the lows so well.


This is getting quite deep, so if you can live with the good bass repsonse of a decent decent 2x10 and then use the same as an Ex cab then what you feed one cab will be easily controlled/handled by the other.. It is about as simple as you can get....but I'd say a good 4x10 by SWR would outperform their 2x2x10's IMV.. for bass response

At the end of ther day, try and have a listen to the Edens and see what you think..if you like the sound, then your uncle is Bob...
If nothing else, it might give you a reference and thought process to pursue this upgrade further..

[0175westwood29]

just out of intrest do you guys not think of a 2x210 setup as a limiting setup?, ie you amp will be running at 4 ohms with basically a 410 on it? i know for transporting it is easier.

kind of along the same lines but i really liked the 212 aguilar cabs that i tried out a while back i think they were the gs version? that was with the gk 700rb as well sounded ok, not a fan of the gk tone tho.

andy

[JTUK]

[quote name='0175westwood29' post='534940' date='Jul 7 2009, 05:34 PM']just out of intrest do you guys not think of a 2x210 setup as a limiting setup?, ie you amp will be running at 4 ohms with basically a 410 on it? i know for transporting it is easier.

kind of along the same lines but i really liked the 212 aguilar cabs that i tried out a while back i think they were the gs version? that was with the gk 700rb as well sounded ok, not a fan of the gk tone tho.

andy[/quote]

can be, IMV but depends on how you transport which is why I asked that question.... can you fit a 4x10 in the car or whatever ?
Also, we are talking about a certain budget here and he also needs an amp. The Eden setup F/S was mentioned so I went along those lines
for a practical answer, I think..

Unless you have crew you will probably have compromises in your kit...
I tend to favour a smaller flexible set-up so I can mix and match but also get it into a coupe, on small gigs it is 2 carries if need be.. and for larger ones, 4 carries max
It shouldn't break the back either but it is a very good sound for most stages.
If space and weight wasn't the main issue, I would defo run other bigger cabs in a sub and a top end config

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='JTUK' post='535190' date='Jul 7 2009, 10:04 PM']can be, IMV but depends on how you transport which is why I asked that question.... can you fit a 4x10 in the car or whatever ?
Also, we are talking about a certain budget here and he also needs an amp. The Eden setup F/S was mentioned so I went along those lines
for a practical answer, I think..

Unless you have crew you will probably have compromises in your kit...
I tend to favour a smaller flexible set-up so I can mix and match but also get it into a coupe, on small gigs it is 2 carries if need be.. and for larger ones, 4 carries max
It shouldn't break the back either but it is a very good sound for most stages.
If space and weight wasn't the main issue, I would defo run other bigger cabs in a sub and a top end config[/quote]

yep i dream the day when i can have roadies! my rig would be much different!

[thumperbob 2002]

What about a trace GP7 15" combo- had one of these for years and you can find them on ebay for £250- pretty bulletproof but heavy- then you can use the remaining monies for an extension cab though really for the gigs you are doing- if you have FOH support this should be enough- 300 w really is a minimum for bass.
There are many good options to consider.
Cheers


Bob