Best onboard preamp

[SisterAbdullahX]

Bit of a subjective one, this one. There are a lot of them out there, but which is the best active onboard preamp which can be installed into a Fender Jazz, and why? Would love to hear the opinions of anyone who has a Sadowsky VTC, an Audere, an Aguilar, a Nordstrand, ACG (which I have), J-Retro or anything else that will fit into the cavity under the control plate. Has anyone swapped one for another? Which are the simplest to use and which are not so? Are 2 bands enough? Which are the most "musical" and which cover more frequencies than a dog could hear? Has anyone given up and gone passive??

Have to say for my part that the ACG, as much as it is undoubtedly a serious piece of high quality kit, it still hasn't totally won me over yet. That is probably because I'm used to yer boost/cut jobbies. Although there have been a few gigs where it's brought a big old smile to my face.

Of the list above, the Sadowsky and the Audere (or one of the Auderes) are the 2 that appeal mto me the most.

Edited July 6, 2009 by SisterAbdullahX

[bh2]

I fitted a J-Retro in my Jazz... it's awesome, especially low end. Turned it into a pure bass machine.
Controls are complicated (compared to original setup!) but it's just fantastic!

It's very powerful though and there is a significant vol increase on switch-on, I've busted a couple of speakers in my Ashdown with it.

It's also very well made.

Can't comment on the Audere although a friend of mine has one and he couldn't get on with it at all.



It's fretless and just perfect for Drum&Bass!

Edited July 6, 2009 by bh2

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='bh2' post='534207' date='Jul 6 2009, 10:02 PM']I fitted a J-Retro in my Jazz... it's awesome, especially low end. Turned it into a pure bass machine.
Controls are complicated (compared to original setup!) but it's just fantastic!

It's very powerful though and there is a significant vol increase on switch-on, I've busted a couple of speakers in my Ashdown with it.

It's also very well made.

Can't comment on the Audere although a friend of mine has one and he couldn't get on with it at all.



It's fretless and just perfect for Drum&Bass![/quote]


Nice looking bass! I was going to go for the J-Retro, then changed my mind at the last minute and got the ACG02, which like I say, is a serious bit of kit, but I think what I may be looking for is basically a good passive tone with the optiion of a bit "more".

[bh2]

Yes... the AGC is the J-Retro but different. They're both by Mr East.
I'd go for sound over simplicity and in my experience the J-Retro is just AWESOME! I really can't praise it up enough. It's made such a difference to my sound and the way I play (for the better, obviously).

I've not tried any of the others and don't feel I need to now.

[ped]

I have a Marleaux 3eq pre in my bass - normally it is bypassed but what I really like about it (and the reason I got the East for my freteless) is the treble boost at 8khz which just works really well for a bit of extra cut live.

ped

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='bh2' post='534226' date='Jul 6 2009, 10:28 PM']Yes... the AGC is the J-Retro but different. They're both by Mr East.
I'd go for sound over simplicity and in my experience the J-Retro is just AWESOME! I really can't praise it up enough. It's made such a difference to my sound and the way I play (for the better, obviously).

I've not tried any of the others and don't feel I need to now.[/quote]


Anyone got a J-Retro or a Sadowsky with VTC fitted to their Jazz, that I could try out? I'm in South Yorkshire, but will travel. I'm usually gigging in or around Newcastle on weekends. Would bring my Warmoth with ACG (as pictured in the Gear Porn section), so you could give that a try to see how you get on with a filter pre.

Edited July 6, 2009 by SisterAbdullahX

[ped]

If you call up Mr. East you could try his outboard Jretro (possibly he has the ACG too) with your very own bass. He is based near Oxford just on the M40.

[Waldo]

For just sheer, uncoloured boost go with an Aguilar.

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='ped' post='534279' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:15 PM']If you call up Mr. East you could try his outboard Jretro (possibly he has the ACG too) with your very own bass. He is based near Oxford just on the M40.[/quote]

Yeah, could be worth a call. Oxford is only an hour and a half or so away from me. Cheers.

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='ped' post='534279' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:15 PM']If you call up Mr. East you could try his outboard Jretro (possibly he has the ACG too) with your very own bass. He is based near Oxford just on the M40.[/quote]


By the way, not wanting to bugger my own thread up, but I know you like your Vigiers, how much do you think my '86 "Relic-ed" Passion would be worth?

[Waldo]

Ouch, what happened to that?

[JPJ]

[quote name='SisterAbdullahX' post='534278' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:13 PM']Anyone got a J-Retro or a Sadowsky with VTC fitted to their Jazz, that I could try out? I'm in South Yorkshire, but will travel. I'm usually gigging in or around Newcastle on weekends. Would bring my Warmoth with ACG (as pictured in the Gear Porn section), so you could give that a try to see how you get on with a filter pre.[/quote]

I'm near Newcastle and have two J-Retro equipped basses (Fender DLX V and Overwater) and a home built P 5 string with Johns BTB and Mid-Stack (ie the tone engine from the J-Retro without the passive/active and the blend / pup switch). If you want to call in and try mine, your welcome!

[skelf]

[quote name='ped' post='534279' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:15 PM']If you call up Mr. East you could try his outboard Jretro (possibly he has the ACG too) with your very own bass. He is based near Oxford just on the M40.[/quote]


I think John still has both in a box so you can switch between them.

There is a bit of a learning curve with the filter pre-amp if you are used to using a standard cut/boost type EQ. Should not take you to long to get used to it if you spend some time just using it.

Cheers
Alan

[GreeneKing]

Just to add to Alan's observations, the ACG filter pre, although made by John East for Alan is a different beast entirely to the J - Retro.

+1 to using it to understand it. An awareness of what it's doing helps a lot too and not just 'twiddle and notice it sounds different' methodology but knowing why.

I've written a couple of posts on how the ACG pre works somewhere.

Found one

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=41878&hl=ACG01"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=41878&hl=ACG01[/url]

Peter

[thedontcarebear]

I've decided to not use my ACG live for now (after the last/first show with it), I find that I don't have enough time to mess around with it during soundcheck to make it sound decent, so just stick with the reliable Sandberg, in the studio though, it's very good and you can spend more time tweaking it exactly to what you want. I am not sure whether to change the ACG preamp for something more normal, or to just keep it as a studio bass. The Sandberg has just got a 2 band preamp, which I always set flat, or I can pull out the volume pot to make it passive.

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='skelf' post='534302' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:37 PM']I think John still has both in a box so you can switch between them.

There is a bit of a learning curve with the filter pre-amp if you are used to using a standard cut/boost type EQ. Should not take you to long to get used to it if you spend some time just using it.

Cheers
Alan[/quote]

Hi Alan

Yeah, I think the problem is probably with me and my inability get used to a different way of operating, rather than the preamp. Part of my problem is that I don't have an amp at home that I can get used to it on, so I can't transfer what I learned about it at home to a gig situation. That said, I played at a function at the weekend, just playing swingy standards etc and immediately got a lovely big round tone. I remember thinking "well f**k me, there's nothing wrong with that!" It is a quality sounding bit of kit, the bottom end it creates is immense. I would be daft not to give it a bit more time, although I will try other stuff out just to see how they compare. The J-Retro, Sadowsky and Audere (if I can find anyone who's got one fitted to their Jazz) are the ones I'd like to try. They might prove to me that the old adage of not being able to teach an old dog is true, or they might just show me how good my own preamp is!

Cheers.

Edited July 7, 2009 by SisterAbdullahX

[skelf]

It is like all these pre-amps mentioned above nobody likes them all. Some people love the filter pre-amps some don't get on with them which is only to be expected. I would be the first to tell you that it will not suit everyone. The 01 version the DCB has is a bit more complicated to use live than the 02 version but the 01 is not any harder to use than a 4 band standard EQ and some 3 band EQ's it is just that most players know how the cut/boost type work and have used them at some point. I find 4 band EQ's very hard work. I have used filter pre-amps for years having previously used Wal's for a long time so I find them easy to get on with but from a back ground of the normal EQ I can see why they cause some problems when you first encounter them. Peter is also right a bit of understand about how it works does help the process along a bit.

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='JPJ' post='534299' date='Jul 6 2009, 11:34 PM']I'm near Newcastle and have two J-Retro equipped basses (Fender DLX V and Overwater) and a home built P 5 string with Johns BTB and Mid-Stack (ie the tone engine from the J-Retro without the passive/active and the blend / pup switch). If you want to call in and try mine, your welcome![/quote]


PM'd

[BigRedX]

I'm no longer convinced by on-board pre-amps of the traditional cut/boost variety because they don't do anything that the controls on your amp ought to do better.

The only reason IMO to fit one would be:

1. You like to fiddle with the tone as you're playing
2. You prefer volume/balance as opposed to volume/volume on a 2 pick up bass. I've still not come across a decent passive balance control that sounds as smooth as a good active.
3. The pre-amp offers individual tone shaping for each pick up.

What advantages are you hoping to get out of fitting a pre-amp to your bass?

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='skelf' post='534672' date='Jul 7 2009, 01:55 PM']It is like all these pre-amps mentioned above nobody likes them all. Some people love the filter pre-amps some don't get on with them which is only to be expected. I would be the first to tell you that it will not suit everyone. The 01 version the DCB has is a bit more complicated to use live than the 02 version but the 01 is not any harder to use than a 4 band standard EQ and some 3 band EQ's it is just that most players know how the cut/boost type work and have used them at some point. I find 4 band EQ's very hard work. I have used filter pre-amps for years having previously used Wal's for a long time so I find them easy to get on with but from a back ground of the normal EQ I can see why they cause some problems when you first encounter them. Peter is also right a bit of understand about how it works does help the process along a bit.[/quote]


Yeah, I've done a bit of investigation on all the above pre's and heard good and bad about all of them. It all comes down to personal preference in the end, which doesn't make any of them a bad product. The only real way to find out is to try them out for yourself. There is even a chance that I may just go passive and do away with a preamp altogether, and just let the wood and pickups do the work.

[bh2]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='534691' date='Jul 7 2009, 02:15 PM']I'm no longer convinced by on-board pre-amps of the traditional cut/boost variety because they don't do anything that the controls on your amp ought to do better.[/quote]

I have to completely disagree here I'm afraid... before fitting my J-Retro my bass sounded quite dull and non-discript. Now it's totally alive! I've never come across anything like it, it's almost scary.

I agree however that it's a 'what ever floats your boat' argument.

[BigRedX]

Interesting... What amp are you putting it through? Have you tried with the J_Retro in passive mode and then dialling in the same sound using the tone controls on your amp?

[deksawyer]

I've used all of the 3 commons pres mentioned here in the same bass, the Audere, the J-retro and the AGC 02.

All 3 are excellent and sound superb and without going into too much detail (cause I can't be bothered) here's how I pesonally rate them.

1. ACG 02 - very versatile - almost any sound imaginable.

2. Audere - a close second. Also very versatile from big dubby to aggressive stingray type sounds.

3. J-retro - very polite and almost passive sounding. Didn't have enough extremes for me.

All 3 are built very, very well - it's a tough choice!

D.

[bh2]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='534793' date='Jul 7 2009, 03:30 PM']Interesting... What amp are you putting it through? Have you tried with the J_Retro in passive mode and then dialling in the same sound using the tone controls on your amp?[/quote]

It's going through an Ashdown Mag300 combo. It's got nowhere near the bottom end this bass puts out now it's got the J-Retro fitted. I have to be careful with it.

I've got to say that this guitar was languishing in it's case for many years because it wasn't cutting it for me tonally. Although I knew the neck was a corker. I had the frets stoned down to the tangs the same time as I fitted the J-Retro and now I can't put it down.

I reckon I'd probably have been happy with any of the alternatives, I just got to the J-Retro first.

[mike257]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='534691' date='Jul 7 2009, 02:15 PM']I'm no longer convinced by on-board pre-amps of the traditional cut/boost variety because they don't do anything that the controls on your amp ought to do better.

The only reason IMO to fit one would be:

1. You like to fiddle with the tone as you're playing
2. You prefer volume/balance as opposed to volume/volume on a 2 pick up bass. I've still not come across a decent passive balance control that sounds as smooth as a good active.
3. The pre-amp offers individual tone shaping for each pick up.

What advantages are you hoping to get out of fitting a pre-amp to your bass?[/quote]

Most of the gigs I play, the FOH bass sound is from a DI box, so an on board pre-amp gives me control of my bass tone on stage and out front - surely there's a lot of us in the same boat. I don't find I do loads of tweaking, but sometimes it comes in really handy.