1976fenderhead Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I've recently acquired an used Aria electro-acoustic fretless bass. It's quite cheaply made (plastic back, like Ovation guitars) but good enough for an acoustic set I have to do soon. I'm really loving the fretless thing though, and next week I should start shopping around for a proper quality one (acoustic or not, not sure yet). I have a question regarding the tone though: I only really get that fretless mwwahhh roughly from D up, nothing in the A string below that, and almost nothing on the E string at all, it just sounds like a normal fretted bass there. The strings are brand new Thomastik Jazz Flatwounds. Is that just the way it is with fretless or is it due to the bass's cheap quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Can't say without seeing it but try playing with your right hand (assuming you are right handed) further up the neck from the normal playing position (i.e. further from the bridge) and adding some vibrato with your left hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Several potential issues here. Firstly you'll get more of the sound you want with roundwound strings. Flats have a great tone on a fretless but if you want 'mwahhh', rounds or halves are the way forwards. Secondly the setup (saddle height and neck relief) has a huge impact on tone and very small changes in either can take a great fretless tone to strangled notes/rattle (saddles too low or too little relief) or thump (saddles too high or too much relief). I've always found it hard to get the tone I want all the way up the neck by default and tend to set up so that I get mwah by the bucket load between 5th and 15th frets and then have to work really hard with my left hand to get it below the fifth/above 15th, especially on the heavier strings. Not sure how much adjustment you'll have on an acoustic so it might be donw to the fingers! Good luck Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='535509' date='Jul 8 2009, 10:46 AM']...try playing with your right hand (assuming you are right handed) further up the neck from the normal playing position (i.e. further from the bridge)...[/quote] That as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) Hmmm, can't adjust action or intonation at all, but I adjusted the truss rod when I put the new strings on, tension is lower now so I had to losen it a bit, can't really do much with that since if I tighten it more it rattles and if I losen it more action is too high... I did notice that playing nearer to the neck (over the hole in the body) it sounds a lot more acoustic, but it doesn't sound more fretless... The bass came with roundwounds (bronze) which were quite old I have to say, but I noticed the same lack of fretless quality in the low notes with those as I have now with flats... I guess not being able to set it up further, it has to be down to my left hand fingers... or down to buying one I can set up further :-) Regardless, I'm very pleased with how easy it's being for me to adapt, I felt I could gig with it the day I got it as I could play in tune almost immediately. I'm only struggling a bit from about the 12th fret up because not being able to set intonation, I have to learn where the right spots for the fingers actually are (and they differ between strings too), and surprisingly, I also struggle to get the 1st "fret" right! Apart from that, easy-peasy (I guess 17 years playing bass helped)! 8-) Edited July 8, 2009 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I've always found the first fret the hardest to get right, no idea why. Played a fretless bass a few weeks back with a first fret dot and my intonation was hugely improved. Bronze acoustic string might not be the same as normal roundwounds tone-wise, but as I don't play acoustic I can't be much help there. I'm sure someone else will have the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 [quote]Firstly you'll get more of the sound you want with roundwound strings. Flats have a great tone on a fretless but if you want 'mwahhh', rounds or halves are the way forwards.[/quote] Chris & I's opinions differ on this one. I think there's a lot of mwah to be had with flats if the bass has 'it'.. whatever that is. Along with what has already been suggested, it may be that the bass just doesn't have much life around the low end (I've noticed this on other lower-end-ish acoustics I've played). That could be killing the richness of the note. Hopefully you'll work it out, though. [quote name='Beedster' post='535528' date='Jul 8 2009, 11:14 AM']I've always found the first fret the hardest to get right, no idea why. Played a fretless bass a few weeks back with a first fret dot and my intonation was hugely improved.[/quote] Absolutley... the Tony Franklin has a dot at the first, and it makes a heck of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' post='535559' date='Jul 8 2009, 11:50 AM']I think there's a lot of mwah to be had with flats if the bass has 'it'.. whatever that is.[/quote] Could "it" be fingerboard material? My VMJ with TIs has a fair bit of mwah down the bottom, and that's an ebonol board. Maybe something softer like rosewood might damp down the mwah. Pure conjecture, y'knaa. I'm pretty clueless on this. Edited July 8, 2009 by BottomEndian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='535559' date='Jul 8 2009, 11:50 AM']Chris & I's opinions differ on this one. I think there's a lot of mwah to be had with flats if the bass has 'it'.. whatever that is.[/quote] Fair point actually, I should have said that, IMO, it's easier to get it with (light) rounds that with flats, but as has been suggested above, technique, materials and set-up play their part also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='535597' date='Jul 8 2009, 12:26 PM']Could "it" be fingerboard material? My VMJ with TIs has a fair bit of mwah down the bottom, and that's an ebonol board. Maybe something softer like rosewood might damp down the mwah. Pure conjecture, y'knaa. I'm pretty clueless on this.[/quote] Very much so, there's differences in tone between fretless boards, I've owned maple, rosewood, ebony and ebanol and all had their own tone, to an extent anyway. I'd say that rosewood is perhaps the least 'mwahy' of the lot, but that's likely the result of maple boards having been varnished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I'm forever tweaking my fretless, try subtle changes in neck relief, action, have you considered changing the nut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I'd suggest looking at the nut - to get the best mmmwwwaaaww..you'll need the slots to be cut really low, just above the the fingerboard surface..and I mean "just". Only makes a difference on the first and second fret positions but its usually set too high (because its easy to overcut and mess up the nut). If you want to try yourself make sure the files are a reasonable match to the string sizes and put a strip or two (stacked) of masking tape in front the nut so you know if you hit the board. good luck BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 To get 'mwah' out of a fretless, you need 'mids'. So... +1 to the light guage roundwounds. Also... Try boosting the mids on your amp, at around 550hz. This is in addition to all the set-up suggestions! Although fretboard material and the general quality of the bass will have some affect, you want/need lots of mid frequencies to get 'that' fretless sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 [quote name='Mr.T' post='536215' date='Jul 9 2009, 09:41 AM']To get 'mwah' out of a fretless, you need 'mids'. So... +1 to the light guage roundwounds. Also... Try boosting the mids on your amp, at around 550hz. This is in addition to all the set-up suggestions! Although fretboard material and the general quality of the bass will have some affect, you want/need lots of mid frequencies to get 'that' fretless sound.[/quote] Hmmm thanks. I am cutting mids and highs a lot and boosting bass as I find the bass's preamp sounds too strident... Will add mids tonight to see if it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 [quote name='1976fenderhead' post='536251' date='Jul 9 2009, 10:27 AM']Hmmm thanks. I am cutting mids and highs a lot and boosting bass as I find the bass's preamp sounds too strident... Will add mids tonight to see if it makes a difference.[/quote] Hi, Cutting the highs is fine, if that's the sound you are chasing. Strings are also important. I use a Status fretless. When I bought it, it was fitted with flats... and I couldn't get the sound I wanted with any amount of EQ'ing. (If the bass doesn't put it out, the amp cant amplify it!). Switched to Rotosound Rounds 40-100's, and there was the sound.... add a bit of 550hz. and it now sings. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 This thread is absolutely fascinating ... I had no idea about some of this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 +1 to everyone else's comments vis-a-vis the roundwounds (steel) and I'll also add that if you can find any way to raise the string height at the bridge it'll help alot. Bear in mind it's an acoustic and won't have the Wal / MusicMan like sustain Mick Karn and Pino benefit from (if theirs is the mwah you're thinking of...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh2 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I used to get a superb, almost upright bass tone off of my SB1000f by fingering over the board... not too high up obviously. Around the neck/body joint. Rounds as well here... always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I had a distinct lack of mwah on my Warmoth when i got it, first thing i did was cut the nut slots down a little, almost bottom the action out and fit a set of Elixirs. Loads of mwah now! Incidentally my old Jazz had bags of mwah, that was a de-fretted rosewood board with cheap rounds on, it was more fretless-sounding than i actually wanted as sometimes i just wanted to play a standard note and it wouldn't let me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh2 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Yes... you can't beat an old Jazz Bass for fretless... mine's a '62 stoned to the tangs... superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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