How do you remember songs and arrangements?

[xilddx]

I was having a chat last night with a dear friend and ex bandmate who's a busy session drummer. I raised the question of remembering lots of original songs you've never heard before, maybe an hours worth, in a short period of time (less than a week) for gigs and recording. This is from being given rough demos and having to come up with parts, then the band leader making changes to the arrangements, more than once, then gigging them confidently and without making mistakes.

His method was pretty much exactly the same as mine and it seems to work, although mistakes do creep in occasionally.

How do you do it?

[b]Second question.[/b] Again, without charts, would you be able to play those songs, without mistakes, on your own without playing to the tracks?

Edited July 9, 2009 by silddx

[51m0n]

1) Time, effort, blood, sweat, tears, lots of mistakes - I have an awful memory for structures

Writing the structures out, highlighting the catchy bits is uber important for me.

I try and listen constantly to the songs, I also write out the structures to learn them away from the music, and spend all that imbetween time (to and from work etc) either listening to or thinking through the structures.

The other trick is nailing the groove though, you havent covered that, buit I find its easy to apply too much of me to someone elses idea, rather than playing it how they would, sometimes this doesnt matter, cos what they want is me, sometimes its an issue!

2) Not for a while no, but that is the goal always....

Developing the ability to count and play (beats/measures/phrases, whatever breaksdown the easiest....) is an absolute must!

[jonny-lad]

I tend to write some kind of chart or lead sheet for most songs I learn, and then I annotate them as the band leader changes the arrangements. I think the way I write the charts with really clearly defined sections helps me to remember the songs well once I'm playing without the charts. I also pay attention to the underlying chord changes to help me remember - if I know these well, I'll always be able to play a bass line that fits, even if it's not exactly the same every time.

Not sure my techniques would work equally as well for everyone, but they work well for me. I think writing things down helps me to remember things as I'm learning the songs as I write the parts. I also think that the visual aspect helps me a lot in that I can picture the structure based on how I wrote it out.

As for the second question, I tend to be okay playing the songs without mistakes and without playing to the tracks. I always commit a lot of time to making sure that I know things inside out though, even if I've only got a week to learn it in, and I've found a method of learning that really works well for me.

[chris_b]

[quote name='silddx' post='536330' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:03 PM']....I was having a chat last night with a dear friend and ex bandmate who's a busy session drummer. I raised the question of remembering lots of original songs you've never heard before, maybe an hours worth, in a short period of time (less than a week) for gigs and recording....[/quote]
I'm currently running through a 2 hour set of Free, Bad Company and Led Zep for some gigs in 4 weeks time. I put a lot of effort into this, for either covers or originals, as my aim is to do a better job than the bassist I'm depping for, so I get recalls and other work out of it.

I get the CD or MP3 or Charts (if very lucky) as early as possible. I usually write out the charts, structure of the number, intro, verse, chorus etc. No dots, just chords and any significant points, riffs, stops etc. Run through them so I know the fingering and read them on the gig.

If they want to throw last minute changes at me they get the best job I can do, but with no guarantees. If you know the number you can usually accommodate last minute changes.

[Clarky]

I tab out the bass for each section and label 'A', 'B' etc - then write down the structure A-B-A-B-B-A-C-B, for example. Works for me.

[OldGit]

[quote name='chris_b' post='536343' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:22 PM']I'm currently running through a 2 hour set of Free, Bad Company and Led Zep for some gigs in 4 weeks time. I put a lot of effort into this, for either covers or originals, as my aim is to do a better job than the bassist I'm depping for, so I get recalls and other work out of it.

I get the CD or MP3 or Charts (if very lucky) as early as possible. I usually write out the charts, structure of the number, intro, verse, chorus etc. No dots, just chords and any significant points, riffs, stops etc. Run through them so I know the fingering and read them on the gig.

If they want to throw last minute changes at me they get the best job I can do, but with no guarantees. If you know the number you can usually accommodate last minute changes.[/quote]


Yeah I'm a depper too and that's more or less what I do.
I also sometimes use a floor cheat sheet that has the main stuff on it in code (the upper one in the pic)
[attachment=28556:SoulDest...sSetList.JPG]

[Bilbo]

I write out the dots. Job done.

[xilddx]

[quote name='OldGit' post='536368' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:38 PM']Yeah I'm a depper too and that's more or less what I do.
I also sometimes use a floor cheat sheet that has the main stuff on it in code (the upper one in the pic)
[attachment=28556:SoulDest...sSetList.JPG][/quote]

Christ! You can play and read that at the same time without getting lost?! All my hats are off to you mate!

This is the sort of thing I do.

[OldGit]

[quote name='silddx' post='536377' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:49 PM']Christ! You can play and read that at the same time without getting lost?! All my hats are off to you mate![/quote]

No I learn the stuff but then when I can't remember if the next section goes to C or G I glance down.

The top sheets there are the layout of the tunes in an "Intro-V-Ch-V2-Ch-M8-V3-Ch-CH-Solo(kbds)-Ch-Outro" stylee

Ihe bottom one is once I have it more or less nailed. It's an annotated setlist with the bits that may trip me up highlighted

[xilddx]

[quote name='OldGit' post='536392' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:00 PM']No I learn the stuff but then when I can't remember if the next section goes to C or G I glance down.

The top sheets there are the layout of the tunes in an "Intro-V-Ch-V2-Ch-M8-V3-Ch-CH-Solo(kbds)-Ch-Outro" stylee

Ihe bottom one is once I have it more or less nailed. It's an annotated setlist with the bits that may trip me up highlighted[/quote]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you hadn't learned the songs. I meant, say you got lost during Black Eyed Boy, are you able to quickly look down and find what you need from that mass of small and crowded text, on a possibly dark-ish stage, quickly enough to get back on target?

[51m0n]

I only once took charts on a gig, it was an Indie band with 'riffs' that were massively meandering chord sequencies. I stuc to the roots plus a little bit of movement getting from one to the other - seemed to keep them happy anyway.

I didnt really mind the music, the drummer was fine, but it turned out that the two guitarists insisted on changing the settings on their amps between each song for minutes at a time to get the sound 'just right' - I kid you not, I smoked a rollup between each song, I couldnt believe it!!

We parted company after that gig

[OldGit]

[quote name='silddx' post='536396' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:07 PM']Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you hadn't learned the songs. I meant, say you got lost during Black Eyed Boy, are you able to quickly look down and find what you need from that mass of small and crowded text, on a possibly dark-ish stage, quickly enough to get back on target?[/quote]

It's just a safety net .. first time on bass for them, complex arrangements (as you can see) lots of morphing from tune to tune .. organised and arranged stuff in between the tunes
Normally for a band that stops and starts between complete tunes I'd just have an annotated set list

I use a small UV light stratigically placed to light up the sheets in the dark .. no problem.

[OldGit]

[quote name='51m0n' post='536406' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:15 PM']I only once took charts on a gig, it was an Indie band with 'riffs' that were massively meandering chord sequencies. I stuc to the roots plus a little bit of movement getting from one to the other - seemed to keep them happy anyway.

I didnt really mind the music, the drummer was fine, but it turned out that the two guitarists insisted on changing the settings on their amps between each song for minutes at a time to get the sound 'just right' - I kid you not, I smoked a rollup between each song, I couldnt believe it!!

We parted company after that gig [/quote]


Ho ho
Went to see a band the other day - friends of a friend - and before the last tune they tuned up for 1.5 minutes (I timed it) and they wern't audibly out of tune before
Lost the dancing audience totally ..

[xilddx]

[quote name='OldGit' post='536412' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:21 PM']It's just a safety net .. first time on bass for them, complex arrangements (as you can see) lots of morphing from tune to tune .. organised and arranged stuff in between the tunes
Normally for a band that stops and starts between complete tunes I'd just have an annotated set list

I use a small UV light stratigically placed to light up the sheets in the dark .. no problem.[/quote]

Ah, got you. Thanks.

[chris_b]

[quote name='OldGit' post='536368' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:38 PM'][attachment=28556:SoulDest...sSetList.JPG][/quote]
What deps do you do? Your feather boa's moulting!!

[chris_b]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='536383' date='Jul 9 2009, 12:52 PM']....I write out the dots. Job done....[/quote]
But it's all about context!

It's pointless to write out the dots for Whole Lotta Love or Communication Breakdown! I will probably write the dots for a particular rhythm pattern that I need reminding of in an original number, but I won't write the dots for the whole song. What I currently do doesn't require that.

Edited July 9, 2009 by chris_b

[mike257]

When I've been dragged in for original bands at short notice, I'll usually stick everything on a CD, spend a couple of hours playing through it, and then that CD gets permanently stuck in my van and goes round and round the whole time I'm at work, until it's permanently ingrained in my memory. Get to the gig, it's like you've been playing them forever

[Bilbo]

[quote name='chris_b' post='536483' date='Jul 9 2009, 02:41 PM']It's pointless to write out the dots for Whole Lotta Love or Communication Breakdown! I will probably write the dots for a particular rhythm pattern that I need reminding of in an original number, but I won't write the dots for the whole song. What I currently do doesn't require that.[/quote]

Depending on what's happening, you can get away with an awful lot if you have good ears and a generally wide experience of genres. I have done more than a handful of gigs over the years where I don't know any of the songs until the guitarist starts playing (Hey, Pete Young - remember that gig you saw me at with Gione? No charts, no knowledge of the tunes but a room full of happy punters!!!)! I once did a piano/bass duet with a guy who played solid for 90 minutes without stopping, segueing every tune into the next without asking if I knew them or not. For the record, it sounded like it!

In practice, a chart with the form and any details/stabs/stops/breaks written out generally does the trick for me and the results are generally impeccable.

[OldGit]

[quote name='chris_b' post='536443' date='Jul 9 2009, 01:45 PM']What deps do you do? Your feather boa's moulting!![/quote]


Ha ha yeah
That was for Rich's band before he (re-)joined.
The two woman singers did things with boa's, pom-poms, etc

Edited July 9, 2009 by OldGit

[Rich]

And I get to stand behind them while they wiggle.

Oh man, I [i]love[/i] my gig

[Earbrass]

I tend to use an Excel spreadsheet: one cell per bar. In each cell I write the chord name or names, and underneath whatever lyrics are sung in that bar. Then comes the really fun bit - I colour code the whole thing, by applying background colour to the cells, with eg all the verses in one colour, all choruses in another and so forth, so it's really easy to see the structure of the song at a glance (I find I'm much more likely to make the mistake of going to the wrong "bit" of a song - like not remembering that the 2nd chorus has an extra 4 bars and then we go into the lead break etc - than I am of cocking up the individual sections). Often I find that the process of producing the document helps me learn the song so well that by the time I've finished it and printed it off it's just there as a backup. Nice to have, though.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='536560' date='Jul 9 2009, 04:25 PM']I tend to use an Excel spreadsheet: one cell per bar. In each cell I write the chord name or names, and underneath whatever lyrics are sung in that bar. Then comes the really fun bit - I colour code the whole thing, by applying background colour to the cells, with eg all the verses in one colour, all choruses in another and so forth, so it's really easy to see the structure of the song at a glance (I find I'm much more likely to make the mistake of going to the wrong "bit" of a song - like not remembering that the 2nd chorus has an extra 4 bars and then we go into the lead break etc - than I am of cocking up the individual sections). Often I find that the process of producing the document helps me learn the song so well that by the time I've finished it and printed it off it's just there as a backup. Nice to have, though.[/quote]

Interesting, I do the same sort of thing in PowerPoint for particularly tricky numbers I need to learn very quickly. Really useful process.