urb Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 [quote name='Jase' post='542374' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:22 PM']Usual Jaco negatives, has it occured to anyone that perhaps Bireli was maybe tipping his hat to Jaco and maybe doing it just because he can, just like when he plays a violin, because he can. What else do you expect a musical genius to play when he picks up a bass or a violin, Alright now and Three Blind Mice?[/quote] Don't get me wrong I think Bireli's 'Jaco-inspired' playing is amazing - wish I could make it sound so good and look so damn easy... M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='542380' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:27 PM']Don't get me wrong I think Bireli's 'Jaco-inspired' playing is amazing - wish I could make it sound so good and look so damn easy... M[/quote] Yeah I know crazy isn't it? I think you're right about the party piece. Any how....this sort of thing I find more weird: [url="http://www.orangetreesamples.com/jaco"]Jaco Samples[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bilbo230763' post='542300' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:10 PM']Sounding like Jaco is and always was a fool's errand (even when I was trying it). Yes it's great but it was great because it was fresh and exciting. Now its superficial and tranparent.[/quote] It would be hard to argue that Bireli is a copycat. After all, he has had his own musical voice since before he met Jaco. Jaco was not only a mentor to him but also a friend, and to me, this sounds more like paying a great homage. Playing anything remotely like Jaco seems to have gotten a bad name, but thats probably because there are so many crap imitators around. Bireli makes it sound utterly effortless and very classy, unlike the half baked attempts we usually hear. Edited July 16, 2009 by Chris2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='542300' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:10 PM']Sounding like Jaco is and always was a fool's errand (even when I was trying it). Yes it's great but it was great because it was fresh and exciting. Now its superficial and tranparent. Birelli should know better. I prefer his playing on The Super Guitar Trio cd[/quote] I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunetune_jazz Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Yes Bireli's playing was a tribute... but you know what is coming next ; Totally disagree - you have to remember Jaco was an innovator at the end of the day. Jaco's reasoning behind his playing was to bring something new.. [Never mind minty fresh and exciting] ...to the world of bass that is why he did things differently to everyone else. He made you think about the way you played and left the ground work for most bass players to build on. I personally do not think his aim was to have everyone play like him or to be a Jaco clone? [i][Not to be confused with Star Wars Attack of the Clones][/i] To say Jaco's playing is totally superficial and transparent or anything else, means that you do not understand the true meaning of the word bass player or bass genius. Jaco created a style for bass players to build on. A starting point or platform to take what he had learned to the next level. "I think that was his reasoning behind the way he played and the music he created". I think you had to be pretty OK to play bass with "Weather Report", Rather than a local band that meets up for a social Jam Session once a week. If you read a lot of the bass mags and bass websites, take note of some of the comments made by the most influential bass players of this era from Jazz, Rock, Pop, Funk, Metal, Garage to Grunge... everyone comments on Jaco's playing ability and what an influence he was to them, they also commented on the tones and sounds that came out of his bass that made them want to take up music or play the bass. It takes a great deal of talent and skill to influence a person to take up playing an instrument, or to make a DVD based on your playing ability or to have a book written about your style and the impact you have made on the music scene. As well as having endless musicians paying tribute to the contributions Jaco made to the music world. Plus having the time to sell few hundred thousand CD's based on your music, The word "Genius" would have to come to mind. I also forgot to mention having you own line of Signature Basses too by the company that invented the bass as we know it today. I think that the message that todays bass players do not fully understand or comprehend about Jaco's playing, whether it may be someone paying a compliment or a playing a tribute piece is that Jaco may have contributed to them taking up music or even the bass. Remember Jaco created a unique sound - other top bass players took that sound and developed further into their own individualistic syle which may have inspired "Joe Bass Public" i.e. me or you to take up playing the bass. Peace Out [quote name='bilbo230763' post='542300' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:10 PM']Sounding like Jaco is and always was a fool's errand (even when I was trying it). Yes it's great but it was great because it was fresh and exciting. Now its superficial and tranparent. Birelli should know better. I prefer his playing on The Super Guitar Trio cd [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Guitar-Trio-Live-Montreux/dp/B000QJMSUK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1247753349&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Super-Guitar-Trio-...3349&sr=1-1[/url] PS didn't watch the clip - can't on my work PC.[/quote] Edited July 17, 2009 by dunetune_jazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think we all understand Jaco's influence. However, when you see someone clone [i]everything[/i] about the man - the sound, the tone, the approach - even the little inflections and personal characteristics and the little hooks and riffs - well you end up thinking it's just a homage. There's nothing wrong with homages; '[i]a public show of respect to someone to whom one feels indebted'[/i] as wikipedia puts it. It's a sincere form of flattery if ever there was one. But when someone does it over and over again and they are also part of a culture of hero worshipping clones you are bound to ask 'What are you going to add to it? Can you change the context so it seems fresher? Can you modify it and extend it? Can you do [i]anything[/i] to freshen it up? Of course many have done just that: they've moved on with new techniques and new approaches looking for their own voices. But not this Bireli fellow, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Spoombung' post='543358' date='Jul 17 2009, 04:30 PM']Of course many have done just that: they've moved on with new techniques and new approaches looking for their own voices. But not this Bireli fellow, it seems.[/quote] I don't think Bireli is trying to push bass playing forward, break new ground or find new voices. Seems to me that he just enjoys doing it. There were other videos around but they've been taken down...did anyone see the solo homage stuff he did? It was unreal how close he was to jaco's live solo approach. Still, fun to watch though. Slightly off topic but still Jaco related. Michel Hatzigeorgiou Punk Jazz [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhKweMpBBPg"]More Homage[/url] Michel Hatzigeorgiou being himself [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfg5g2TvK0o&feature=related"]Solo[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Chris2112' post='542471' date='Jul 16 2009, 06:10 PM']It would be hard to argue that Bireli is a copycat. After all, he has had his own musical voice since before he met Jaco. Jaco was not only a mentor to him but also a friend, and to me, this sounds more like paying a great homage. Playing anything remotely like Jaco seems to have gotten a bad name, but thats probably because there are so many crap imitators around. Bireli makes it sound utterly effortless and very classy, unlike the half baked attempts we usually hear.[/quote] My point exactly, and the fact he does it so sincerely and with such skill and respect, and joy, is also why Bireli has every right to do this stuff as and when he feels like it, which, as far as I know is very, very rarely. It's not a case of him "not having moved on", like he's desperately out of touch with today's scene, or is lacking ideas of his own, he's having fun playing tribute, with incredible skill, to an old friend. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='543601' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:15 PM']It's not a case of him "not having moved on", like he's desperately out of touch with today's scene, or is lacking ideas of his own, he's having fun playing tribute, with incredible skill, to an old friend. Mike[/quote] Indeed, nice one urb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 His Gypsy Project material (for me) is where he really shines... Check out the 2002 Viennes concert DVD, where he plays with most of the big names in that style. Here he is playing with Richard Galliano... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VhuvkFZ1Hk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VhuvkFZ1Hk[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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