Someone sell me on graphite necks

[rslaing]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='540855' date='Jul 14 2009, 11:42 PM']+1

Too bright, too artificial, to '80s sounding - which is OK if that's your thing....[/quote]

Mine isn't?? I have tone controls on my bass and amp...................

[thepurpleblob]

It gets more complicated..... I just found out that I'm getting some cash I didn't expect (how often does that happen!) so the rule of easy come, easy go is to be applied. I might now be in a position to buy a whole Status bass. Anybody in the Glasgow area got one that I could try? I've had a go on one of those Washburn 1000 things but it isn't the same thing. Alternatively that Overwater on Ebay is still whispering to me

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='rslaing' post='542267' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:31 PM']Mine isn't?? I have tone controls on my bass and amp...................[/quote]
I take your point, but don't graphite necks have an inherently brighter and more'zingy' kind of sound to them?

[Kiwi]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='542700' date='Jul 16 2009, 10:33 PM']I take your point, but don't graphite necks have an inherently brighter and more'zingy' kind of sound to them?[/quote]
Some do, but it depends on their construction. Generally, the stiffer the fingerboard, the zingier they are. The use of stainless steel frets doesn't help either. Wooden fingerboards are much better IMO.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

Graphite works for me personally, my two main working basses are graphite necked (one is all graphite!) and they provide what I crave which is `consistency' of tone and playability. The constancy of action (i.e. no movement), tuning and lack of dead/hotspots does it for me. I've started using a StingRay again recently and it sounds great but I feel happiest on me Vigier!!!

As Kiwi also notes, I do like the idea of a wooden board on a graphite neck; my graphite necked Warlord has an ebony board and the tone is very good; one of my old Status Series II's had a similar board and again, sounded great. The new `phenowood' board that Rob provides as an option on the Status range is excellent - Rich's (OTPJ) five string headless is incredible! Where art thou brother?!

[sshorepunk]

My Staus necked stingray (NAMM bass) was one of the nicest rays I've owned, paired with a traditional bass such as a ray it sounded great. Nice feel, I like the shape of the neck, from what I recall the neck flatens off at the back, making it feel sleek and slim. Very consistant tone across the range of the neck

Tony

[ped]

What I like is the consistency. Vigier have a very clever system where the graphite neck in half neck-thru so it stops just before the pickups. I think the key to a good graphite neck is first of all stability (not all I have tried or owned have been straight and I can't stand much neck relief) and the body wood character is even more critical than with a wooden neck, IME. Get the right wood on the right neck and the two resonate and work together beautifully.

There is no single best way of doing it and there are many good and bad necks, graphite or otherwise, and I think the neck itself is merely a part of the whole picture. As a sum of its parts, a graphite neck will enhance (or spoil) a bass depending on a whole host of other factors.

Cheers
ped

[4000]

[quote name='rslaing' post='542267' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:31 PM']Mine isn't?? I have tone controls on my bass and amp...................[/quote]

Nothing to do with the tone controls on either IMO. I've now owned 4 Statii and every one of them has had what I can only term a "plasticky" sound. I've found the same with the dozens of others (and the Vigiers, Zons and Peavey B Quad 4) that I've tried. Tone off, tone on, boost lows, boost highs, both, mids, whatever, I have never been able to get them sounding anything other than synthetic. I suspect that some of this comes down to technique and some comes down to individual perception and taste. What sounds like plastic to my ears might sound like "super smooth and zingy" or "tremendous bark" to someone else's. FWIW our guitarist feels the same. Speaking of the Peavey B Quad 4, that bass has the nicest-feeling graphite neck I've ever played.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='4000' post='543652' date='Jul 17 2009, 10:22 PM']Nothing to do with the tone controls on either IMO. I've now owned 4 Statii and every one of them has had what I can only term a "plasticky" sound. I've found the same with the dozens of others (and the Vigiers, Zons and Peavey B Quad 4) that I've tried. Tone off, tone on, boost lows, boost highs, both, mids, whatever, I have never been able to get them sounding anything other than synthetic. I suspect that some of this comes down to technique and some comes down to individual perception and taste. What sounds like plastic to my ears might sound like "super smooth and zingy" or "tremendous bark" to someone else's. FWIW our guitarist feels the same. Speaking of the Peavey B Quad 4, that bass has the nicest-feeling graphite neck I've ever played.[/quote]

Interesting thoughts! I've just got home following playing at a friends retirement party with a 50s/60's rock and roll band - normally I'd take one of my JV Precisions but having been ill all week, I used my Vigier as its nice and lightweight. The tone was spot on - fat and warm - nothing synthetic or plasticy. I would say that the amplification used might have some effect on this `emphasis' that certain graphite necked instruments sound more plasticy (I found that my Trace rig made anything graphite sound very `clacky' and harsher). For whatever reason, the Vigier/Markbass combination just works perfectly for me - as Ped notes, the semi-thru neck system perhaps adds warmth as the bridge is set into wood not graphite etc. The B Quad basses were vastly underrated - one of the best basses I've seen - used to borrow a trans purple one from Peavey!

[Kiwi]

Like I said in my first post, graphite necks sell themselves. There's no point in playing one if you prefer the sound of or are used to wooden necks. Anyone critcising a graphite neck for not sounding like a wooden one might as well criticise vodka for not tasting like whiskey...

...and thats even assuming that everyone has the same ideal tone in mind.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='540920' date='Jul 15 2009, 05:59 AM']The problem I see is that there's noone out there who has refined the technology of graphite necks. Like Wil says, noone's really experimented with wooden fingerboards much, and I think there's a lot of potential there. I've tried some fantastic sounding graphite necked instruments but the necks been wonky, and the instruments that have straight necks are too brittle.

Ped's Vigier, Nick's Pangborn and my Alembic are the only instruments I've tried where everything's perfect.

So, it CAN be done.[/quote]
I'm fortunate in that I own both a Vigier and a Status (S3 Passion V and Streamline respectively)
I'd say both were pretty much perfect... Which speaks volumes for Patrice and Rob's QC controls...
From previous topics, a know you and I concur about the use of fretboards other than phenolic on graphite necks... There IS a lot of potential for subtly adjusting the instrument's tone through careful material selection (and that includes frets, too, I guess)
There is another factor which I feel contributes to the differences between graphite necks;

Truss rods.

I can't speak with certainty for Ped's S2 Passion (even though I've played it!) , but I believe them to be 'rodless (!) My S3 certainly is, and I think the S4s are, too.
The Statii do have truss rods.
Given that some manufacturers don't use graphite reinforcement (using metal instead) as they believe it [i]negatively[/i] influences tone, that might be a contributory factor.

No matter what your preference, I think I've got most of them covered in my collection to date
Wooden neck and fretboard (truss rod)
Wooden neck (graphite reinforced) and fretboard (truss rod) Fender Jazz
Wooden neck and Phenolic fretboard (truss rod) (Yamaha Attitude)
Wood/Graphite neck and phenolic fretboard (no truss rod) (Vigier Passion S3)
All graphite (with a truss rod) (Status Streamline)

All I need now is a bolt-on graphite necked instrument with a (black stained) maple fretboard and a Vigier Arpege or Passion S2 with its phenolic board replaced with a (stained) Wenge or Ebony item....
GAS ahoy!

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='543744' date='Jul 18 2009, 05:06 AM']Like I said in my first post, graphite necks sell themselves. There's no point in playing one if you prefer the sound of or are used to wooden necks. Anyone critcising a graphite neck for not sounding like a wooden one might as well criticise vodka for not tasting like whiskey...

...and thats even assuming that everyone has the same ideal tone in mind.[/quote]
+1

I know that I definitely prefer wooden necks, for their tone and feel and I've never wanted a bass to have perfect stability or consistency.. to me, that's always been the domain of synths.

[rslaing]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='543893' date='Jul 18 2009, 11:57 AM']+1

I know that I definitely prefer wooden necks, for their tone and feel and I've never wanted a bass to have perfect stability or consistency.[/quote]

Upright bass players of the 1960's had the same attitude about bass guitars (with wooden necks).

[4000]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='543741' date='Jul 18 2009, 03:31 AM']Interesting thoughts! I've just got home following playing at a friends retirement party with a 50s/60's rock and roll band - normally I'd take one of my JV Precisions but having been ill all week, I used my Vigier as its nice and lightweight. The tone was spot on - fat and warm - nothing synthetic or plasticy. I would say that the amplification used might have some effect on this `emphasis' that certain graphite necked instruments sound more plasticy (I found that my Trace rig made anything graphite sound very `clacky' and harsher). For whatever reason, the Vigier/Markbass combination just works perfectly for me - as Ped notes, the semi-thru neck system perhaps adds warmth as the bridge is set into wood not graphite etc. The B Quad basses were vastly underrated - one of the best basses I've seen - used to borrow a trans purple one from Peavey![/quote]

I will add that tonally I think my favourite graphite-necked basses are probably Vigiers. I'll also add that I have yet to play a 10/90 plugged in, so that may be entirely different. As I've said earlier, the day I find one that works for me, I'll buy it quite happily.

BTW, I suspect you may be correct about the effect of different amplification.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='rslaing' post='543931' date='Jul 18 2009, 12:47 PM']Upright bass players of the 1960's had the same attitude about bass guitars (with wooden necks).[/quote]


I accept that I am a total luddite, though in a bizarre Victor Meldrew kind of way, I find that quite comforting...

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='4000' post='543951' date='Jul 18 2009, 01:18 PM']I will add that tonally I think my favourite graphite-necked basses are probably Vigiers. I'll also add that I have yet to play a 10/90 plugged in, so that may be entirely different. As I've said earlier, the day I find one that works for me, I'll buy it quite happily.

BTW, I suspect you may be correct about the effect of different amplification.[/quote]
Have you played an S2? They're ALL graphite. Not very much like the S3.
The S2s are very tight, well balanced and articulate.
The S3s are kind of half way between an all-wood neck and an all-graphite one. Oodles of smooth sustain, but a bit warmer and with less attack than the 100% graphite ones. If they took the phenolic fretboards off, it could be [i]very[/i] close to (my idea of) perfection.

I may be getting close to a theory about the "clacky" sound from some amps;
I experience this through my Trace on most fretted basses with phenolic 'boards, yet when recordings of it are played back, it sounds amazing. I reckon that it's the brittle/harsh-sounding nature of the tweeters or horns employed in some cabs that may be causing it.
Either that, or there's a "De-Clack" button on the mixing desk!!

[BarnacleBob]

You really have to match the amp to a graphite neck/all graphite bass IMO
I wonder if Status/Statii were developed/built using T/E as a reference amp or did they use a variety of makes and older amps.
My Steinys and Statii sounded great through my T/E stack but when I switched to Peavey (ooh the irony!!) they weren't the same.
The Steinberger XL2 had a fabulous sound - the open E sounded like the bass register on Grand piano and the neck was narrow but quite deep causing my mate who used Arias and JDs to describe it as a bit of a log!

I wouldn't stick a graphite neck on a nice fender cos I feel u either go all the way (XL2 ,2000, Streamline) or just have a nice bit of wood Guv'nor (or 2)



BB

[4000]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='544240' date='Jul 18 2009, 07:25 PM']Have you played an S2? They're ALL graphite. Not very much like the S3.
The S2s are very tight, well balanced and articulate.
The S3s are kind of half way between an all-wood neck and an all-graphite one. Oodles of smooth sustain, but a bit warmer and with less attack than the 100% graphite ones. If they took the phenolic fretboards off, it could be [i]very[/i] close to (my idea of) perfection.

I may be getting close to a theory about the "clacky" sound from some amps;
I experience this through my Trace on most fretted basses with phenolic 'boards, yet when recordings of it are played back, it sounds amazing. I reckon that it's the brittle/harsh-sounding nature of the tweeters or horns employed in some cabs that may be causing it.
Either that, or there's a "De-Clack" button on the mixing desk!![/quote]

I owned a Status 2000 which was all graphite and have played several Stealth 1s. I've played dozens of various Statii over the years and have never yet found one that works for me. One thing I will add is that the syntheticness I mention isn't just the clackiness, it's everything about the sound. If you dial in a smooth round sounds it still sounds synthetic to my ears.

[TDM]

Does anybody here use a Status for straight up rock/metal?

Everybody on Youtube with Status basses seem to be either covering Level 42 songs or playing similar things. Is it just a coincidence or is it simply not possible pick up a Status without playing slap?

[BarnacleBob]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='544835' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:21 PM']Does anybody here use a Status for straight up rock/metal?

Everybody on Youtube with Status basses seem to be either covering Level 42 songs or playing similar things. Is it just a coincidence or is it simply not possible pick up a Status without playing slap? [/quote]

That geezer from the Quo doesnt use anything else


BB

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='544835' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:21 PM']Does anybody here use a Status for straight up rock/metal?

Everybody on Youtube with Status basses seem to be either covering Level 42 songs or playing similar things. Is it just a coincidence or is it simply not possible pick up a Status without playing slap? [/quote]

When gigging again, I intend to do exactly that with the Streamline...
It's ideal for it IMO!
One thing no-one's yet mentioned is the resistance of graphite necks to changes in humidity & temperature. They are very stable, which is beneficial when travelling.

BTW, Rob has a Trace 1110 (4x10 combo) in his workshop...
I had one as my first proper "big" amp!

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='544874' date='Jul 19 2009, 07:48 PM']When gigging again, I intend to do exactly that with the Streamline...
It's ideal for it IMO!
One thing no-one's yet mentioned is the resistance of graphite necks to changes in humidity & temperature. They are very stable, which is beneficial when travelling.

BTW, Rob has a Trace 1110 (4x10 combo) in his workshop...
I had one as my first proper "big" amp![/quote]

Many years ago as bassist in `0898' (1992s top local pub rockers here in Peterborough!!), I used a Status Series II (with a plec!) and then a heavy metal band which then turned into a chillis type rock band (Urban Surf - we used to do a lot of work for Performance Bike mag and they used our music on a couple of their Video Nasties!).

Still use my 2000 for certain rock gigs. I think there will always be an association of Status basses with funk/slap but they are very versatile instruments - whack a heavy set of strings on (which is painless of course!) and you've got the ultimate rock machine! Stick some 30s on it and you've got the MK bass! I tend to play quite hard on the rock gigs and the graphite can handle the extra `welly' as one calls it!

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='4000' post='544826' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:04 PM']I owned a Status 2000 which was all graphite and have played several Stealth 1s. I've played dozens of various Statii over the years and have never yet found one that works for me. One thing I will add is that the syntheticness I mention isn't just the clackiness, it's everything about the sound. If you dial in a smooth round sounds it still sounds synthetic to my ears.[/quote]
I got a chance to have a go on Crez's Status this evening and I was really impressed by the sound of it! Wasn't comfortable with the feel of the graphite neck still, but tonally, it was possible to use the onboard e.q. to get a very wide range of sounds, including some of those 'old skool' tones (for want of a better expression) that tend to suit an old luddite like me.

So, I must confess to having had my expectations very nicely challenged....!!