bazz fuzz

[Al Heeley]

Here's a bass fuzz I put together at the request of a forum member. Really simple 2-transistor circuit but made a bit more fiddly with the 4 pots.
I've never heard of one of these before I was pm'med but I must say they are outrageous fuzz beasts for bass! Sounds really nasty for guitar - big fat in your face fuzzville. Bloody marvellous - I shall be making one for myself now
Apparently the real ones go for crazy money on ebay.

[steve]

Just built one of these myself from a schematic found on't web. I really, really like mine, but it needs a couple of tweaks I think to work ok with my wireless (strangely enough, I've had no probs with my active bass tho').

what transistors did you use in yours?

[Al Heeley]

i used stock 2n3904's - had some less-than-optimum travel on the 'Wool' pot as I did'nt manage to get my hands on a 2k pot the schematic calls for, but its a really powerful unit.

[steve]

i used some BC107's in mine - sounds really splatty when you turn the pinch control up. i must try one with the stock transistors in to compare.

re the 2K pot, I used a 4k7 with a 4k7 resistor paralleled to bring the pot travel down to around 2k3

[thisnameistaken]

Isn't it rather bad form to clone pedals that are still in production?

[iamapirate]

Yes, but unfortuately it has to be done! Especially if you can't afford the £200 that they ask for it when they're producing them for tenners.

[steve]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='544296' date='Jul 18 2009, 08:29 PM']Isn't it rather bad form to clone pedals that are still in production?[/quote]

I don't know about Al, but I'm doing it for my own personal use.

It has to be said that as far as the pedal we are talking about is concerned, the design is based on an earlier one from the 70's whose patent has expired

[Al Heeley]

Don't worry - wouldn't dream of setting up a business and making money out of it, just helping out a forum member.
Unlike the guys who have copied this classic 2-transistor 12-component design and sell them for >£200, which to me is shocking.

[bobbass4k]

You have to remember a lot of the cost of the original (are we avoiding the actual names for legal reasons, or just to be all cool and sleuthy?) is the hand painted enclosure, hand wiring, paying employees, distribution, marketing, all the costs associated with a business, yes you may be able to make a clone for a lot cheaper, but if you made them and sold them on the scale of the original, the cost would quickly skyrocket

[steve]

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='544326' date='Jul 18 2009, 09:12 PM'](are we avoiding the actual names for legal reasons, or just to be all cool and sleuthy?)[/quote]

legal reasons, I don't want to cause problems for the forum owners

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='544326' date='Jul 18 2009, 09:12 PM']You have to remember a lot of the cost of the original is the hand painted enclosure, hand wiring, paying employees, distribution, marketing, all the costs associated with a business, yes you may be able to make a clone for a lot cheaper, but if you made them and sold them on the scale of the original, the cost would quickly skyrocket[/quote]

thanks for that, but if you read through the above posts, you'll realise neither of us are intending to do that.

I was hoping this would turn into an interesting thread about modding fuzz circuits and swapping out components instead of an misplaced lecture

[iamapirate]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='544315' date='Jul 18 2009, 09:02 PM']Don't worry - wouldn't dream of setting up a business and making money out of it, just helping out a forum member.
Unlike the guys who have copied this classic 2-transistor 12-component design and sell them for >£200, which to me is shocking.[/quote]
[url="http://www.mansons.co.uk/shopping/search/single-stomp-boxes/z-vex/woolly-mammoth-pedal/"]http://www.mansons.co.uk/shopping/search/s...-mammoth-pedal/[/url]
oh no did I let it slip? I think it was obvious...

[Al Heeley]

Oh! I came across an interesting veroboard layout for a bass fuzz circuit called fuzzy elephant so I made it. Sounds pretty good too if you like in-yer-face bass square wave.
Be a cool add-on to slot a dpdt switch in there too to switch between 2 different pairs of transistor types.
Also what is really needed imho is a blend knob to blend the amount of fuzz filth back into the dry circuit.
Maybe I'll sketch out a few ideas for that and work on a mark II version named after an entirely different pachyderm.
I've got a few spare types of trannies sitting round looking for a home. Geez that reads back badly. You know what I mean hopefully.

[steve]

Al, I have some schematics I found on the web that'll do the blending thing, I can email them to you if you like, or just send you the links if you prefer, (assuming I can find them)

[bobbass4k]

[quote name='steve' post='544361' date='Jul 18 2009, 09:56 PM']thanks for that, but if you read through the above posts, you'll realise neither of us are intending to do that.

I was hoping this would turn into an interesting thread about modding fuzz circuits and swapping out components instead of an misplaced lecture[/quote]

I wasn't trying to imply anything, hell, i consider myself a borderline communist, I love the idea of building your own stuff, I don't believe any one person can own an idea, if I had more time and energy i'd be building loads of clones myself, I was just trying to point out that the rather hefty price the "mooly wammoth" sells for is probably not a result of gouging and greedy business, a lot of people seem to have the attitude that if they can make something for cheap, then a mass produced professionaly built version should also be cheap, and the fact that it isn't is a result of the greedy corporate machine, which i accept is probably true for a lot of businesses, but something i don't really associate with the boutique pedal industry, certainly wasn't a comment on anyone

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='544315' date='Jul 18 2009, 09:02 PM']Don't worry - wouldn't dream of setting up a business and making money out of it, just helping out a forum member.[/quote]

I think duplicating the Mammoth is an issue in itself, rather than just buying one, but profiting from duplicating it is wrong to me.

I'm surprised people are doing stuff like this. Maybe I'm naive. Al - knowing you from elsewhere I'm surprised that you'd be doing this.

[Al Heeley]

I suppose for me the motiviation is the hobby aspect, it's the hunting down the schematics and sourcing the components to try and get something together that works, then trying it out on the instruments. The motivation has never been the thought of ripping off anyone elses designs for profit. If a friend wants to cover the cost of the parts for me to put one together then that will buy the enclosure and the pots and the jackplugs for the next project.
The mammoth itself is a duplicate of an older classic design, so I'm working on a duplicate of a duplicate. I don't think ZVex have anything to fear from my humble soldering efforts! Sorry some people find this a contentious issue. While I would see good reason to pay £200 for a complex digital delay or bass synth pedal I think a vintage fuzz with a very simple circuit should not be sold for such a high price tag, but at the end of the day its the market that sets the price. If no-one was willing to pay £230 for this beautifully painted boutique pedal with a dollop of skake oil thrown in, then I guess the makers would pitch the price lower so they could sell them. At the end of the day I'm exploring a hobby, an interest in music and electronics and doing a favour (at no profit!) for a fellow bassist at the same time.

[dannybuoy]

Nowt wrong with building your own clones... Making exact copies of still in production pedals and selling them for a profit is wrong, but then again most boutique pedal builders a guilty of it themselves by ripping off the Big Muff, Fuzz Face and Tubescreamer. And if you take a look at freestompboxes.org you'll see there's a whole community dedicated to reverse engineering these pedals. It can be a great learning experience to make your own tweaked versions of various pedals out there.

[steve]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='544477' date='Jul 19 2009, 04:02 AM']I think duplicating the Mammoth is an issue in itself, rather than just buying one, but profiting from duplicating it is wrong to me.[/quote]

hmm, I think the word duplicating implies making an exact copy, with a further possible implication of trying to pass of the copy as an original. I don't think either of us is trying to do that.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='544477' date='Jul 19 2009, 04:02 AM']I'm surprised people are doing stuff like this.[/quote]

Can you elaborate on the phrase 'doing stuff like this'?

[steve]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='544542' date='Jul 19 2009, 10:20 AM']Nowt wrong with building your own clones... Making exact copies of still in production pedals and selling them for a profit is wrong, but then again most boutique pedal builders a guilty of it themselves by ripping off the Big Muff, Fuzz Face and Tubescreamer. And if you take a look at freestompboxes.org you'll see there's a whole community dedicated to reverse engineering these pedals. It can be a great learning experience to make your own tweaked versions of various pedals out there.[/quote]

+1 to all of the above

[harryharold]

the main point people still buy expensive boutque pedals is the fact that they don't just use standard components, i think ZVex in particular may make their own transistors (correct me if i'm wrong). because of this you will never actually get the same tone, pretty close but not the same. cloning is good fun, but unless your good or using a really simple pedal it can be infuriating, my scramble clone took an age to get right, most of the time it was just a volume pedal that could ick up radio!

[steve]

[quote name='harryharold' post='544598' date='Jul 19 2009, 11:44 AM']the main point people still buy expensive boutque pedals is the fact that they don't just use standard components, i think ZVex in particular may make their own transistors (correct me if i'm wrong). because of this you will never actually get the same tone, pretty close but not the same.[/quote]
yeah I think I read somewhere that ZVex had some germanium transistors made for them, which can't have been cheap
[quote name='harryharold' post='544598' date='Jul 19 2009, 11:44 AM']cloning is good fun, but unless your good or using a really simple pedal it can be infuriating, my scramble clone took an age to get right, most of the time it was just a volume pedal that could ick up radio![/quote]
..and when you've finally debugged the project and got it up and running, you get a real sense of achievement

[Toasted]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='544303' date='Jul 18 2009, 07:36 PM']Yes, but unfortuately it has to be done! Especially if you can't afford the £200 that they ask for it when they're producing them for tenners.[/quote]

Oh so, that's alright then.

[umph]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='544477' date='Jul 19 2009, 04:02 AM']I think duplicating the Mammoth is an issue in itself, rather than just buying one, but profiting from duplicating it is wrong to me.

I'm surprised people are doing stuff like this. Maybe I'm naive. Al - knowing you from elsewhere I'm surprised that you'd be doing this.[/quote]

zvex didn't design the pedal themselves, also its a fuzz face clone thats been modded for bass anyway

[nick]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='544477' date='Jul 19 2009, 04:02 AM']I'm surprised people are doing stuff like this. Maybe I'm naive. Al - knowing you from elsewhere I'm surprised that you'd be doing this.[/quote]

You shouldn't be.
There are loads of us doing it & several forums out there dedicated not only to those who clone, but also to people who share their own ideas & improvements on established models like the Fuzz Face
If someone has the ability to do it (for themselves) - then why not?

I built a few of this type of bass fuzz myself now. First one was entirely out of curiousity, to see if it lived up to the hype. Didn't have the oppurtunity to try one out or £200 spare in my pocket to buy one. Found the schematic, was a ridiculously easy build & probably cost £15 in total. Since I've had a chance to compare it with the 'real McCoy', mine for some reason seems to have a bit more low end

I would never have spent £200, on what is a basic fuzz, in the first place, so the manufacturer IMO has not lost a sale from me building a copy.

Edited July 19, 2009 by nick

[iamapirate]

[quote name='nick' post='544942' date='Jul 19 2009, 08:40 PM']I would never have spent £200, on what is a basic fuzz, in the first place, so the manufacturer IMO has not lost a sale from me building a copy.[/quote]
Exactly, I would (probably) never buy the actual wooly, but if I find that, say I get a clone and it sounds good, but not exactly how I want or exactly like the original, and then I become rich, then obviously (after buying every other pedal) I'd buy a real one. But IMO, it's really not worth it. Especially for something that sounds great, but isn't the most versatile thing in the world.