bazz fuzz

[JimBobTTD]

My understanding is that it is not illegal to clone a production pedal at all. There is no copyright on analogue circuits (as placing components after one another is a logical step, not a great display of creativity), only on actual PCB designs. Ergo, there is no law stopping anyone from reverse engineering a pedal and making clones and selling them for profit.

"My understanding". Not sure where I picked up this info, but I'm 90% sure of it.

Edit to add: a schematic is copyrighted as it is a drawing, but the actual circuit is not copyrighted. Or something.

I've made a bundle of pedals for my guitar. Distortions, overdrives, delay, chorus, phase...it's great fun.

Edited July 20, 2009 by JimBobTTD

[Al Heeley]

I've made a little mod to try out on the Elephant Fuzz, it's a tiny blend circuit on a postage-stamp sized piece of stripboard, consisting of 3 resistors, 2 capacitors, a transistor and a 50k pot. This sits between the input jack and the output of the effects board in parallel with the effect, and should allow a degree of control to mix in the wet and dry sound together in order to take off some of the harshness of the fuzz.
I will try it out tonight and report back if it seems a useful addition to an already knob-filled pedal.

[nick]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='545472' date='Jul 20 2009, 04:54 PM']I've made a little mod to try out on the Elephant Fuzz, it's a tiny blend circuit on a postage-stamp sized piece of stripboard, consisting of 3 resistors, 2 capacitors, a transistor and a 50k pot. This sits between the input jack and the output of the effects board in parallel with the effect, and should allow a degree of control to mix in the wet and dry sound together in order to take off some of the harshness of the fuzz.
I will try it out tonight and report back if it seems a useful addition to an already knob-filled pedal.[/quote]

Hi Al,
Nice looking build there.
Would be interested to hear results of your mod.
Keep meaning to add a mini-blend to mine, but the box is too small, there's just too much crammed in that tiny thing!
[attachment=29271:068___Copy.JPG]


Looks like you're improving on the original - cool!

Edited July 20, 2009 by nick

[Al Heeley]

Heres the little stripboard layout for the mini blend - not tried it yet, need to find out about alternative/equivalent transistors to use

[nick]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='545688' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:08 PM']Heres the little stripboard layout for the mini blend - not tried it yet, need to find out about alternative/equivalent transistors to use[/quote]

Cheers for that Al

2N5484,2N5952,MPF102,J201,....etc


May have something of the above knocking around in my box - PM me if you get stuck.

[Al Heeley]

Appreciate that Nick, had to order some more stuff anyway so I got a couple.
Be interested to drive this thread o/t a little and ask where you go to buy your components (pots, resistors, caps, transistors, etc.) I tend to get a lot from bobs bits box, he has an online and an ebay shop.Good prices and very fast turnround.

[nick]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='545748' date='Jul 20 2009, 09:31 PM']Appreciate that Nick, had to order some more stuff anyway so I got a couple.
Be interested to drive this thread o/t a little and ask where you go to buy your components (pots, resistors, caps, transistors, etc.) I tend to get a lot from bobs bits box, he has an online and an ebay shop.Good prices and very fast turnround.[/quote]

Yeah can't fault [url="http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.html"]Bitsbox[/url], for all the same reasons - they are good.
Used to to go to a small local shop, until it was put out of business by the big boys. Gave up on Maplins a while ago [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=9beccc49c3e5859b3a604d7efd77ed33&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=%2Bmaplins"]Maplins 'Electronics Specialists'[/url]
For audio transformers 42TM018 etc, tend to use Banzai as I not been able to find them in the UK.
My old man also gets me a lot of stuff from radio fairs with being a radio amatueur. I've had NOS Mullards, germanium transistors/diodes, tropical fish capacitors....all sorts.

Edited July 20, 2009 by nick

[steve]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='545688' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:08 PM']Heres the little stripboard layout for the mini blend - not tried it yet, need to find out about alternative/equivalent transistors to use
[/quote]

I've breadboarded the same circuit using a JFET - BF245 I think. Seemed to work well but I found I needed to include a trimpot inbetween the fuzz output and the blend return to match the wet and dry output levels - although I'm not using this with a mammoth clone

[steve]

[quote name='nick' post='545790' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:14 PM']Yeah can't fault [url="http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.html"]Bitsbox[/url], for all the same reasons - they are good.
Used to to go to a small local shop, until it was put out of business by the big boys. Gave up on Maplins a while ago [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=9beccc49c3e5859b3a604d7efd77ed33&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=%2Bmaplins"]Maplins 'Electronics Specialists'[/url]
For audio transformers 42TM018 etc, tend to use Banzai as I not been able to find them in the UK.
My old man also gets me a lot of stuff from radio fairs with being a radio amatueur. I've had NOS Mullards, germanium transistors/diodes, tropical fish capacitors....all sorts.[/quote]

I use Maplin for quite a lot of my stuff, generally they're OK if you know what you want in advance and there's one a couple of miles down the road so i can pick stuff up fairly conveniently. I'll have a look at bitbox tho', I've not come across them before

[iamapirate]

[quote name='Toasted' post='544648' date='Jul 19 2009, 12:00 PM']Oh so, that's alright then. [/quote]
Well, all I'm saying is that I wouldn't buy one for ZVex's proces, no matter how much GAS I had. Also, the guys that clone them don't make any profit (most of them ), so, yes, it is alright. Downloading music illegally is a completely different argument. [size=1]bunch of theives[/size]

[odub]

If there is no patent then it's (legally) ok to clone, if any of the makers came up with something really innovative they’d be able to obtain a patent for it. Can’t copyright a circuit board (I’m pretty sure) Can’t use the trademarked name mind.

Yes, don’t make a tonne of them, give them the same name and try to flog them off on the cheap (though if your manufacturing process is able to produce cheaper products then all props to you).

Hell, if I had enough skill I’d try and clone a Fender Jazz and make one myself,

[Al Heeley]

[quote name='odub' post='546239' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:51 AM']Hell, if I had enough skill I’d try and clone a Fender Jazz and make one myself,[/quote]Nah, go straight for the jugular, try a Rickenbacker

[Musky]

[quote name='odub' post='546239' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:51 AM']If there is no patent then it's (legally) ok to clone, if any of the makers came up with something really innovative they’d be able to obtain a patent for it. Can’t copyright a circuit board (I’m pretty sure) Can’t use the trademarked name mind.

Yes, don’t make a tonne of them, give them the same name and try to flog them off on the cheap (though if your manufacturing process is able to produce cheaper products then all props to you).

Hell, if I had enough skill I’d try and clone a Fender Jazz and make one myself,[/quote]

+1.

The Woolly Mammoth is essentially the same as a fuzz face. Zak had no qualms in cloning the pedal, and I'm pretty sure if fuzz faces were made available with the original circuit again he wouldn't be taking the WM off the market.

Trading off Zvex's reputation is an entirely different thing though. The reason people are willing to pay a lot of money for his pedals is the reputation he has built up for creating innovative, hand built and individual pedals. To my mind the only issue with this clone is calling it a 'fuzzy elephant', which is clearly relying on Zvex's reputation. Some might consider it a purely descriptive term to let people know what they can expect, but I think it's 'borrowing' from a lot of effort that Zak has put in to develop his company. Business isn't just about designing and building a product.

[steve]

[quote name='Musky' post='546280' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:20 PM']To my mind the only issue with this clone is calling it a 'fuzzy elephant', which is clearly relying on Zvex's reputation. Some might consider it a purely descriptive term to let people know what they can expect, but I think it's 'borrowing' from a lot of effort that Zak has put in to develop his company. Business isn't just about designing and building a product.[/quote]

You could also argue the converse in that you are acknowleding the original pedal design without implying it is the same unit

[iamapirate]

Yeah, I mean whats the point in cloning something if no one knows it's a clone - IMO that would be even worse because you are ripping it off as your own.

[Al Heeley]

+1, the use of a similar themed name pays homage to the original (even thouth the WM is itself not an original circuit) but I can't see how this can rely on any reputation - its contrary to reputation. Anything you use which is not designed/manufactured/marketed by Zvex will have no reliance on their reputation whatsoever.
It's like thinking you will have the same level of build quality with a home-made clone as an original/boutique pedal costing 3 times as much, if it shares a similar name - well that clearly isn't going to happen.

[odub]

Depends if you are selling it (then don't trade off the name), or showing it off, in which case reference it in some cool way.

[Musky]

[quote name='steve' post='546302' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:31 PM']You could also argue the converse in that you are acknowleding the original pedal design without implying it is the same unit[/quote]

Possibly, though I do think acknowledging Zvex is bordering on trademark infringement. In this particular case the original pedal is the fuzz face, which Zak has made a very minor modification to. It could have been called the Bass Fuzz Visage, or something equally dumb, but instead it references Zvex. A small point perhaps, but I have seen pedals clearly linking themselves to Zvex designs with rather Myrold-like hand painted finishes - a step too far IMHO.

None of this reflects on anyone building themselves their own clone, just anyone building for commercial purposes.

[nick]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='546342' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:53 PM']It's like thinking you will have the same level of build quality with a home-made clone as an original/boutique pedal costing 3 times as much, if it shares a similar name - well that clearly isn't going to happen.[/quote]
Understand where you're coming from there, but don't totally agree. Have you seen the guts of some of these so-called 'boutique' pedals!
Not for a second am I saying any of my clone builds are better than the originals, I don't spend enough time on the aesthetics, sometimes the wires are a bit long, holes slightly off centre etc....but at least they work & have never conked out.
However, if I was building one for someone else, at even half the price of certain pedals.......

[quote name='Musky' post='546356' date='Jul 21 2009, 01:01 PM']....but I have seen pedals clearly linking themselves to Zvex designs with rather Myrold-like hand painted finishes - a step too far IMHO.[/quote]
Am I the only one who thinks those handpainted efforts look a bit naff?

Edited July 21, 2009 by nick

[Al Heeley]

[quote name='nick' post='546854' date='Jul 21 2009, 06:56 PM']Am I the only one who thinks those handpainted efforts look a bit naff? [/quote]
Heh, I would expect a much better finish from my 8 yr old lad to be honest, if I were to spend that sort of money on a pedal I think the artistic finish is an embarassment.

[thisnameistaken]

Well... I think if you want to clone a Mammoth for yourself, nobody's going to know are they? But making money out of cloning it for other people is poor form.

You can say "It's a Fuzz Face" all day, but a fuzz face doesn't have four knobs. Why aren't you producing a two-knob fuzz if you're just using the Fuzz Face circuit? Because you're not, you're cloning a ZVex pedal.

Nobody here who's producing Woolly Mammoth clones would be doing it if the Woolly Mammoth didn't exist, clearly. So saying it's based on a Fuzz Face fuzz doesn't make reproducing the Mammoth OK. IMHO.

[Al Heeley]

I guess we all have the right to adopt our own moral stance on this, I'm a bit disappointed some may view me as morally corrupt for offering to help out a fellow musician to cover the cost of the parts while I explore my electronics hobby.
Is it ok to clone a vintage classic Tubescreamer type pedal?
What about an A/B box or a simple treble boost circuit? I'm unclear why there is seen to be some sort of mystic preciousness about the ZVex pedals, which for me are absurdly overpriced for what they are.

[steve]

Did you try the blend circuit Al?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='547266' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:57 AM']I guess we all have the right to adopt our own moral stance on this, I'm a bit disappointed some may view me as morally corrupt for offering to help out a fellow musician to cover the cost of the parts while I explore my electronics hobby.
Is it ok to clone a vintage classic Tubescreamer type pedal?
What about an A/B box or a simple treble boost circuit? I'm unclear why there is seen to be some sort of mystic preciousness about the ZVex pedals, which for me are absurdly overpriced for what they are.[/quote]

I totally agree with you Al, there's no problem with building a copy of a circuit with a view to improving it or just generally practicing electronics as a hobby. That's exactly how Zvex started out.

Having said that he does get really pissy if you talk about building fuzz factory clones, which is stupid, because it's just another fuzz face with feedback.

[harvey1-8]

I'd love to build my own pedal to learn a bit more about electronics. Can anyone point me in the right direction of online resources?