sixshooter Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Played last Friday and started the set off with my 1979 P with Active EMG's. The sound of this bass is magic! however it weighs a lot and I have a bad back. After about 10 numbers I had to change to my 55P which is much lighter and the pain went away. So the question is, does someone make a decent pedal that will make my Pasive Bass sound like an Actice Bass with EMG's? As the cavity is small on the 55P it would be difficult to put in a pre-amp, also I use a 59P and do not intend modifying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 No. The only way to get that sound is to fit an active EMG to your '55. If there was a Q-Tuner pickup the right shape then that could get you the extended range output passively and then you'd need some kind of EQ pedal to get the EMG response curve. With any conventional passive pickup you're not going to be getting enough treble from the instrument for any outboard preamp/pedal to get that EMG sound. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You can kind of emulate it with the enhancer function on a boss LMB-3 but I wouldn't recommend it if you have any respect for your ears. Perhaps the aphex exciter would have a similar effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHUFC BASS Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 An outboard pre-amp is the answer. If you can track down a old Sadowsky MkI pre-amp or maybe a MKII it'll go a hell of a long way to making your passive bass sound much better. I used to have one and used it was my Jazz a few years ago and the improvement was vast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 As Alex said, active EMGs are just different. I'd say try some Villex pups for the nearest passive equivolent. Otherwise outboard and things like Aguilar Tone Hammer, MXR M-80 D.I.+ or Bassbones may help. My P sounds great passive and I'm loath to put flats on it as I originally intended as I don't want to change the existing tone. My MXR M-80 gives me a chance to apply some active EQ and that is mostly mids to be honest, that and the passive tone on the bass gives me all I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 i think the fast track way is just to fit EMG to the passive bass...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I thought that a lot of EMG set ups were passive pups with an active pre-amp? That's what it says about my schecter. In which case, you could install them with the pre-amp in a pedal or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='546142' date='Jul 21 2009, 10:52 AM']I thought that a lot of EMG set ups were passive pups with an active pre-amp? That's what it says about my schecter. In which case, you could install them with the pre-amp in a pedal or something.[/quote] that seems to be the case nowadays initially iirc EMG meant an active pup with the preamp in the pup...sterile and hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='546118' date='Jul 21 2009, 10:37 AM']As Alex said, active EMGs are just different. I'd say try some Villex pups for the nearest passive equivolent.[/quote] I read some stuff on talkbass about some new Villex models which I think could be more transparent but couldn't see anything on their site. But certainly more open than most P-pickups. Active EMGs are true active pickups with very low inductance coils, extended range and built-in preamp to buffer and add gain. IMO they run much better on 18V. Very hard to get that sound with a passive pickup because if the passive pickup isn't detecting much 5kHz+ then all the treble boost in the world won't do anything because you can't make something out of nothing. They are unforgiving but with a good bass and good technique they are not in the least bit sterile or untoneful. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='546164' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:07 AM']They are unforgiving but with a good bass and good technique they are not in the least bit sterile or untoneful. Alex[/quote] good point...you dont just strap them on and expect your bass to sound like its coming through £20,000 of recording chain mine were to sizzly for me but the bass end was THE sound i liked...perhaps pure rather than sterile would be a better description...hi fi...as my SWR combo is...and its too bright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='546164' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:07 AM']I read some stuff on talkbass about some new Villex models which I think could be more transparent but couldn't see anything on their site. But certainly more open than most P-pickups. Active EMGs are true active pickups with very low inductance coils, extended range and built-in preamp to buffer and add gain. IMO they run much better on 18V. Very hard to get that sound with a passive pickup because if the passive pickup isn't detecting much 5kHz+ then all the treble boost in the world won't do anything because you can't make something out of nothing. They are unforgiving but with a good bass and good technique they are not in the least bit sterile or untoneful. Alex[/quote] So I don't have "true" active EMGs, I just have EMGs and a 18V pre-amp Oh well, it sounds very good. I can make my passive bass sound quite a lot like my bass with EMGs by using pedals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='546178' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:15 AM']So I don't have "true" active EMGs, I just have EMGs and a 18V pre-amp Oh well, it sounds very good. I can make my passive bass sound quite a lot like my bass with EMGs by using pedals.[/quote] you have a more controllable and modern setup for active pups emg do an active eq knob for their active and other passive pups your pup signal will be more enhanced imho by signal enhancement via an onboard active eq thats what stingrays are and i think they are very versatile in tonal range cheers geof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Don't shoot me down too quickly - I know almost nothing about this kind of thing. COuld you fit active pickups onto it, and make a custom lead to go from your bass into a home-made pedal on the floor, which would house the preamp circuit? Or would the cable lose too much signal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='mrcrow' post='546193' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:24 AM']your pup signal will be more enhanced imho by signal enhancement via an onboard active eq[/quote] Why would it make any difference whether the batteries and pots are in the bass rather than in a pedal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='iamapirate' post='546233' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:46 AM']Don't shoot me down too quickly - I know almost nothing about this kind of thing. COuld you fit active pickups onto it, and make a custom lead to go from your bass into a home-made pedal on the floor, which would house the preamp circuit? Or would the cable lose too much signal?[/quote] You still need to find a space to put the battery for the active pups among the passive electrics. Maybe rout a battery box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Its a 55p - so there would also need to be routing for a new pickup (unless someone makes an active sc P pickup?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='546235' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:48 AM']Why would it make any difference whether the batteries and pots are in the bass rather than in a pedal?[/quote] you carry the eq with you as you move around the stage and the eq is more accessible...fwiw a pedal sounds fine...i have one and just set it and leave it be...although its a sansamp bddi....i prefer any +/- eq to be right under my hand pedals just as good...just my preference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixshooter Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Lots of good info here, thanks So does anyone make an active sc P pickup? currently I have a Jason Loller sc in the 55P, this does have better mids than most, however it lacks the punch. I might give an MRX M-80 a try, anyone selling one at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickH Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'd agree with installing an active pup and keeping the circuit in a box either on your belt or on the floor. If there isn't room in the cavity for a battery to power the pickup, install a stereo jack and make up / buy a stereo jack lead. Use the middle ring on the jack to carry the 9V up into the bass. Used this on an electric viola a friend of mine made in his custom instrument shop, for which I used to to the wiring jobs. The under-bridge pickup was essentially a capacitor mic so needed a 9V supply, but the instrument was one of those thin arty "outline of a viola" jobs so had no room for a battery box. I used the stereo jack trick into a shielded belt box holding a Seymour Duncan circuit - worked a treat. PM me if you need help with the wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mrcrow' post='546139' date='Jul 21 2009, 10:50 AM']i think the fast track way is just to fit EMG to the passive bass...?[/quote] +1 to that! Don't bother with a preamp, just the PP3 and you're away. Edited July 21, 2009 by hubrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='546235' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:48 AM']Why would it make any difference whether the batteries and pots are in the bass rather than in a pedal?[/quote] Because you buffer the signal more directly rather than suffering the high frequency loses due to the capacitative nature of a guitar lead. The issue isn't where the pots and batteries are but where the input stage of the onboard preamp is. The instrument cable acts like a passive tone pot, and the longer the cable is then the more the capacitance is so the lower the frequency at which it starts acting as a first order lowpass filter (just like bigger caps on tone pots cut more treble). Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='546492' date='Jul 21 2009, 02:25 PM']Because you buffer the signal more directly rather than suffering the high frequency loses due to the capacitative nature of a guitar lead. The issue isn't where the pots and batteries are but where the input stage of the onboard preamp is. The instrument cable acts like a passive tone pot, and the longer the cable is then the more the capacitance is so the lower the frequency at which it starts acting as a first order lowpass filter (just like bigger caps on tone pots cut more treble). Alex[/quote] That makes sense, thanks! Having said that, I can get really nasty biting trebly tones out of my passive bass, at least as "toppy" as my active with EMGs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 The most 'trebly' tone that I think I've heard is the one available from one of Alan's ACG01 equipped ACGs with the low pass filters opened wide and the high pass closed and all the peaks set to max. Passive pups too, hmm..... Any other ACG owners care to comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='546082' date='Jul 21 2009, 10:14 AM']....An outboard pre-amp is the answer. If you can track down a old Sadowsky MkI pre-amp or maybe a MKII it'll go a hell of a long way to making your passive bass sound much better. I used to have one and used it was my Jazz a few years ago and the improvement was vast....[/quote] +1 Hi Steve, you would make a huge difference to your sound with a pre amp, and the Sadowsky is one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='546518' date='Jul 21 2009, 02:38 PM']Having said that, I can get really nasty biting trebly tones out of my passive bass, at least as "toppy" as my active with EMGs.[/quote] Nasty biting treble happens lower down than bright shiny treble which itself is lower than airey treble. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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