Eight Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I thought I saw a similar topic once, but couldn't find anything when I searched. There is a possibility I may have talked myself into a sort of casual jamming type situation with some more experienced musicians - it's not concrete yet, but could happen. I've been honest in saying how short a time I've been playing, how limited my abilities are etc. etc. but obviously the prospect of doing this thing is still a little daunting. I was thinking about it all this morning, and figured that there's not much I can do in a short time about my level; but it could make a big difference if I can somehow gel with the drummer asap if/when we start playing. Wondering if anyone has any tips for doing this? I'm sure there's no magic trick to it all, but this is an area of bass playing that I have no knowledge of and would rather not test their patience any more than necessary. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rslaing Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 "It takes a pretty great drummer to be better than no drummer" -Chet Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 My pet drummer is my best mate, basically just start of simple, play basic grooves which both give you breathing space to understand which your both doing and what you can do. Play a cover to get yourselves use to each other and then really it's a case of making sure your grooves lock together and being able to guess exactly what he's going to do and when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 I should add it'd all be covers. So I guess I should be paying attention to the drum parts on the records too? Rather than just worrying about my own business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 You need to LISTEN. It's also by no means guaranteed that you will gel with a particular drummer. I've played with really good drummers that I just haven't had any real link with & less able players where we played stuff that just worked really well. When it does happen it feels f***ing brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='Eight' post='549485' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:36 PM']I should add it'd all be covers. So I guess I should be paying attention to the drum parts on the records too? Rather than just worrying about my own business?[/quote] Pretty much, BUT... every drummer has a slightly different feel (just like every bass player, I guess!). Stand close to him/her, watch the kick drum pedal, and keep it sparse until you both find each other's groove. Sometimes it can take a little while but when it happens it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Hmm. This sounds like an extract from the problem page in a mucky book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='RhysP' post='549494' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:43 PM']You need to LISTEN.[/quote] Does it help to stare at them, or is that just going to freak the guy out? I try to listen to the drums when playing along to mp3s etc. but an mp3 doesn't go out of time, or throw in something unexpected... and can be restarted if you f**k up badly. Edited July 23, 2009 by Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkThrust Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 There isn't any great secret to it. Just listen to the bass drum and try and lock in with it. Unfortunately how easy it is to do depends very much on the quality of the drummer. What rslaing said is very true and once you've had a bit of experience doing it it'll all become clear to you. A good drummer makes it easy for you and everything sounds great, but playing with a poor drummer is very frustrating. It kind of drains all your technique. It's difficult to explain exactly if you haven't done it. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the drum parts on the record. Learn the bass rhythms and then you'll adapt it to the style of the guy you're playing with. It sounds more complicated than it actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Oh, aye.. don't forget to bring some raw meat. It keeps them docile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='549495' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:45 PM']Stand close to him/her, watch the kick drum pedal, and keep it sparse until you both find each other's groove.[/quote] Do you think I should make sure I learn the chord sequences (I'm pretty ok on my major/minor/7th arpeggios etc.) as well as just the riffs then? In asking the question, it seems an obvious thing to do but while I have the attention of experienced bassists I might as well cover my bases (yuk yuk yuk). [quote]Hmm. This sounds like an extract from the problem page in a mucky book.[/quote] Getting dangerously close to that. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 [quote name='RhysP' post='549494' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:43 PM']You need to LISTEN.[/quote] Correct but unfortunately so does the drummer - in my experience that can be where the problem arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I would add that watching the hi-hat/ride cymbal can be very useful, and essential if you cannot stand right next to the drummer. In one of the bands I dep in, I stand next but one to the drummer, and cannot always hear the kick drum on stage that well, but watching the hihat out of the corner of my eye does the trick. All drummers will push or pull the tempo (intentionally or otherwise) at times, so be aware of this. Keeping it simple is key as others have said - I sometimes find it hard to do this, and I try and work on staying sparse and playing only what is necessary. Oh, I am a drummer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yup Listen to the bass drum, follow the drummer if he goes "wrong" - that's why we have drummers, to lead from the beat, otherwise we'd have conductors ... Cheats are to watch the bass drum pedal or front skin if you can't hear it. or to stand just in front of the kit and put your foot against the spike of the bass drum and feel what he's doing. On most records the bass player and drummer have worked out something that gels so listening to the record for both the bass part and the drum part will give you a decent starting point. Then just let it flow .. Don't be afraid to ask him to play the groove again on his own to hear what he's doing and to come up with something to play against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Watch the right foot - and make eye contact. Not like at a candle-lit meal - more 'what you going to play next?' glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Cheers guys - this is really helping. So they are human after all and can be treated as such!?!? [quote name='stingrayfan' post='549586' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:08 AM']Watch the right foot - and make eye contact. Not like at a candle-lit meal - more 'what you going to play next?' glance. [/quote] LMAO. Edited July 23, 2009 by Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 [quote name='Eight' post='549591' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:13 AM']So they are human after all and can be treated as such!?!?[/quote] I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 The secret is listening to the hi hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshorepunk Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Who was it who said "it's the bass players job to make the drummer sound good" Follow the bass drum, watch for accents on the cymbals as they usualy work with the bass line, you'll soon get to work out if your drummer can drop out every now and then, if that happens you need to stay with the groove not him, he'll find it again if he's any good. he also needs to be on it if you put a flowery bit in (as our guitarists calls it) he needs to stay locked if you do that! I work with a good drummer, sometimes we'll identify something we need to work on, just to really tighten it up, the guitarist will stop for a while whilst we get it nailed, it ususaly doesn't take very long! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmpires Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Someone also said that a bass player doesn't need to play fast, but it needs to be able to listen fast. Chill out, keep it simple, try to keep it with the drum kick, and pay attention to the accents, but most of all just enjoy the experience, it's always good to play with people more experienced than ourselves. Providing they are cool people of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='549584' date='Jul 24 2009, 12:08 AM']Cheats are to watch the bass drum pedal or front skin if you can't hear it. or to stand just in front of the kit and put your foot against the spike of the bass drum and feel what he's doing.[/quote] damn didnt think anyone else used my trick . TBH I find it really difficult to hear the bass drum and listening to the hi hat can be confusing so thats my only strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 They are all completely different. The front skin tip from OG above is really valuable. More often than not in a jam rather than an audition type event the drummer and you will be ready to go before the guitarist, at which point the drummer will look at you and sort of say 'go on then' in some strange gutteral grunty language. At this point I have a couple of grooves ready for this that I can play comatose. By this I mean I can enforce the groove (the amount of swing and the feel) regardless of what a drummer is doing as they come up with something to play along. They neednt be complex (shouldnt be really) but they should feel really good to you. Its important that you can play these consistently regardless of metronomic befuddlement instigated by wayward drumming! If you can hold it down if the drummer is decent then qute soon what he is playing will gel with you and that when it starts to take off. Usually at this point the guitarist will start making a noise that ruins everything..... As for staring, I worked with a drummer for a while who was the most intense starer I have ever met. He would attempt to afix you with an eye to eye stare of such lazer-like intensity that the first few times he did it it completely threw me off. However I came to realise that staring back really helped to make the telepathy flow, and we got to be really really good at communicating our intent musically whilst locked in this eyewatering battle of the eyeballs. Weird, never met another one that bad, and normally staring os not necessary or particularly required. Listening is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 [quote name='davidmpires' post='549744' date='Jul 24 2009, 08:56 AM']Someone also said that a bass player doesn't need to play fast, but it needs to be able to listen fast. Chill out, keep it simple, try to keep it with the drum kick, and pay attention to the accents, but most of all just enjoy the experience, it's always good to play with people more experienced than ourselves. Providing they are cool people of course. [/quote] +1 to all of that. However, a drummer I play with regularly plays 'pushed' accents so much that if we both played them the song would have no groove at all... He also plays accents with the horn section parts, so that it makes them sound really obvious. A lot of the songs we cover (especially soul stuff etc.) rely on a solid bass/drum foundation with other instruments providing the accents and pushes-this is what makes the song come alive and creates interest. (I find myself playing less in order to try to restore some balance sometimes!) Another drummer I play with is the complete opposite of this-plays really simple and solid with very little 'embellishment', and of course it works like a dream. The songs seem to just gel more, and am sure makes it better for the audience to dance to as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 This might seem counter to what everyone else has said but I feel the best bet with the drums is to just lock onto the backbeat from the snare and play against that - this should intuitively lead you to hitting accents on the bass that match or complement the kick. Once in a blue moon I'll actively listen for the kick but generally that stuff sorts itself out subconsciously. I would therefore advocate playing along with a metronome that is clicking on just 2 and 4. This will take some practice but it shifts the onus onto you to lay down your half of the groove in the correct place. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='550007' date='Jul 24 2009, 11:39 AM']I would therefore advocate playing along with a metronome that is clicking on just 2 and 4. This will take some practice but it shifts the onus onto you to lay down your half of the groove in the correct place. Alex[/quote] +1 to this for a ton of reasons, you are more responsible for the time, you get to swing as hard as you like/can, you get to play with the groove/pocket far more. Should be a requirement of all musicians and bands that want to be 'tight' that they should set up a handclap on 2 & 4 on a drum machine and rehearse with that through the PA, it does wonders for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Of course locking in with the Drummer is important. But it is just as important you know what you doing on the Tune front. It might be worth contacting the guy in charge and getting a clue as to what you are jamming. An experienced guy would just erm..'Jam'. But if you are feeling vulnerable with that side of it and have trouble with busking... Then just locking in with the kit or watching various bits of the kit wont really help. [ unless you know the tunes] Its really just down to a bit of preparation.... i would think, Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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