local music scenes

[john_the_bass]

as there isn't a general music discussion, i thought i'd add it here although a mod may want to whack it into off topic if they think it's more appropriate

i play in an originals band, doing the local toilets playing on bills of 2-4 bands - usual drill of 30-50 minute sets. Just wondering what your local scenes are like as ours (Leicestershire) seems to be a bit nasty, incestual and cliquey and I'm getting a bit pissed off with it. The Leicester audiences seem apathetic when it comes to going to gigs and many of the other bands spend more time bitching about how awful the local venues and other bands are (despite the fact that they clearly don't listen to any other artist's work!). There are clearly some very good bands in Leicester but there are only a few that actually seem to get good gigs and all seem to be mates with each other.

I don't come from Leicester (I only moved a few years ago) so I don't have a network of people round there that I went to school and uni with to bolster my audience figures or talk to their mates to get into the half decent venues/support slots. I think my band (link in my sig) are actually alright - I seriously hope i'm not deluded enough to think so when we're not - but not getting the opportunities is really bugging me a bit and actually knocking my confidence a bit and the local scene seems to be dictated to by one individual in particular who seems to have no visible input into the scene, but seems to be the authority and appears never to have listened to a local act that he doesn't personally know.

Anybody else experience this or am i just bitching?

[nig]

Glad I cancelled my gig at the shed this week, it was a long haul from essex to leicester.

[tombboy]

Try being an outsider from Leicester!!
Many times I've contacted venues in and around the city to be asked... "Are you a local band?"
When told no they pretty much tell us to take a running jump!!
We even follow the procedures set down by the venues for getting gigs, ie, registering on local forums, introducing ourselves, following up with a demo cd and phone call etc... only find find the promoters don't stick to their own obligations.

It's VERY frustrating because you know you have the songs, the sound, the attitude and are actively looking to build on your fanbase only to be met with with sort of geographically political sh*te!!

I'd hazard a guess that it's not just Leicester though (just in case I get slaughtered for this)!!!

[slaphappygarry]

[quote]a bit nasty, incestual and cliquey[/quote]

Edinburgh is the same.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='"nig"']Glad I cancelled my gig at the shed this week, it was a long haul from essex to leicester[/quote]

I like the shed - it's got a good stage, good sound system and good engineers. It gets a lot of stick locally as the gigs generally aren't the best promoted and there's a belief (one that i don't share) that their door prices are too high.

[quote name='"tombboy"']Try being an outsider from Leicester!!
Many times I've contacted venues in and around the city to be asked... "Are you a local band?"
When told no they pretty much tell us to take a running jump!!
We even follow the procedures set down by the venues for getting gigs, ie, registering on local forums, introducing ourselves, following up with a demo cd and phone call etc... only find find the promoters don't stick to their own obligations.

It's VERY frustrating because you know you have the songs, the sound, the attitude and are actively looking to build on your fanbase only to be met with with sort of geographically political sh*te!!

I'd hazard a guess that it's not just Leicester though (just in case I get slaughtered for this)!!![/quote]

Tombboy, I think this happens everywhere. I've tried getting gigs out of town and I've only managed to get one gig in Stoke. I've been pretty much ignored by venues everywhere else even as close to home as Nottingham and I'm starting to get it from the Leicester scene which bugs me, because I know we get a good response when we play and I know our stuff is good enough to go out there - we're just not mates with the promoters round here. I'd be interested to know which venues or promoters you've approached though? I know the Charlotte states on their website that they'll only accept demos from "Local" bands unless you've got management support and are looking to be booked as part of a tour, but other than that. I've had some bad experiences with some local promoters.

[Viajero]

Leeds has got more like that since I was involved a few years back, I understand.

I think it's because many venues don't put on music for the sake of the music, it's just to get more people in to pay inflated beer prices. If you're not local, you're not likely to bring your own crowd of well-wishers. Oftentimes, my bands did well in local venues because we built up a strong regular audience of friends, friends' friends etc. If you're a Manc band in Stoke, you'll have no local support unless you're well-known enough to be out of the toilet circuit.

Local music scenes, particularly in the North in my experience, are so diverse and full of good music, but the sad fact is they largely only exist so some ex-roadie can play impressario and make a wedge for very little work.

I keep hoping the internet will be the next small-label revolution to take the power away from those who've ruined music this way, but it's not worked out yet.

[tombboy]

Just threw you an addy on myspace John... you can grab some local promoters Cambridge/Peterborough way from us!

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='tombboy' post='4594' date='May 22 2007, 07:55 PM']Just threw you an addy on myspace John... you can grab some local promoters Cambridge/Peterborough way from us![/quote]

cheers tombboy - let me know what your myspace page is cos i suspect our gobsh*te guitarist has picked it up and i'll have to trawl through 70 pages to find you!

[tombboy]

[url="http://www.myspace.com/loopland"]Right here[/url] John.
Bloody guitarists, eh?

Edited May 22, 2007 by tombboy

[john_the_bass]

nice one
does the brewery tap still do the pukka thai food?

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='tombboy' post='4633' date='May 22 2007, 08:54 PM'][url="http://www.myspace.com/loopland"]Right here[/url] John.
Bloody guitarists, eh? [/quote]

that's really good stuff - i like very much.
sort of a cross between mock turtles/lemonheads (when they were good)
to my ears anyway

[Ant]

[quote name='Viajero' post='4593' date='May 22 2007, 07:55 PM']Leeds has got more like that since I was involved a few years back, I understand.[/quote]


Leeds is a bit cliquey, i still quite like a good chunk of the bands up here though.

But it seems alot of the bands are always playing with the same other bands.

[Viajero]

Yeah, does happen. It is an excellent rock scene, comes of a strong student community I suppose.

The name Blue Sky Project rings a bell - I still get the Gig Guide every week, must be that. John Trueman still presiding over the Cockpit/Rocket?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='slaphappygarry' post='4567' date='May 22 2007, 07:03 PM']Edinburgh is the same.[/quote]
You're so right, Garry. We don't really bother with Edinburgh much any more - we're making more headway organising gig swaps with out-of-town bands, & have just come back from a weekend in Northern Ireland, where we played in Derry & Belfast with an Irish band. We'll be bringing them over to Scotland in July - and not playing in Edinburgh.

We've used Myspace for networking with other bands - so far it's got us as far as Prague for gig swaps. You obviously have to be willing to rough it, and use another band's backline, and be prepared to loan yours when they come to your town.

Edinburgh's a pretty small town, really, but it has a ridiculous concentration of venues all within spitting distance of each other. Obviously they come & go, but at one point I calculated you could gig every night for a fortnight & not play the same place twice.

And that, of course, is the problem. "Local" bands really only appeal to their mates - and they'll get fed up with paying to see you playing the same set pretty damn quickly, considering they're only there in the first place because they know you - not because they think you're any good. Harsh, perhaps, but true.

Other bands (with a few notable exceptions) will really only show interest & support if they think they have anything to gain. For 5 years, the singer from my band & me organised live music at a local community festival (the Meadows Festival - you'll know it if you're from around Edinburgh. It was Scotland's longest established community festival, running from 1974 - 2005) and we had bands falling over themselves to try & get to play.

We would get in excess of 200 demos - predominantly from local bands - and a constant deluge of phone calls, emails, people showing up at our gigs & the fundraising events we organised, only interested in being one of the 20 bands to play over the weekend - and often being quite hostile & abusive if they didn't. The Meadows was a volunteer-run registered charity, we only got involved in the first place to try & get ourselves a gig.

We also organised our own monthly & fortnightly gigs in Edinburgh for nearly a year - again, the idea was to try & get out-of-town bands in for gig swaps, and to try & get some kind of community thing happening with local bands too. We had a few gigs back from bands from outside of Edinburgh - but the local bands would play it & then forget it.

So the upshot is that we're pretty disillusioned with the whole "local gig" thing - besides, I far prefer to play to people who haven't heard of us, and have no idea what they're going to get. Far more rewarding.

And of course, what this means, is that anyone in a (good) band reading this, who could offer us a gig & would be willing to come & play somewhere like Livingston or Perth (or even Edinburgh - if you must) should stagger over to [url="http://www.myspace.com/maya29band"]http://www.myspace.com/maya29band[/url] - have a listen and then get in touch with Karen, who does all the organising stuff.

Jon.

[Breakfast]

In Reading, which is the only place near here that has a scene of any kind, the bands are mostly pretty cool, but there is a local scene messageboard (to be found at [url="http://www.berkshirelive.co.uk"]http://www.berkshirelive.co.uk[/url]) which is the most ridiculous cliquey bitchfest you can imagine.

By and large bands in person are a lot more affable...

[tombboy]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='4652' date='May 22 2007, 09:18 PM']nice one
does the brewery tap still do the pukka thai food?[/quote]

AUGH!! The best mate! And they threw in a 3 course meal on the rider!!! Roast Duck Curry..... thats what I'd go for!
Hey.... I've hijacked your hijack!!

[john_the_bass]

there's another place i've been to for thai up the lincoln road but i forget what it's called now!
east (on the boat) is alright as well
talking of the boat thing, have you played any gigs? There was a band about to kick off the last time i was in there, but it seems quite late to be going on.

[Lifer]

I've been gigging with EighthNerve for 4 years now and we've played some of the worst gigs in the world! From my experience the main problem is promoters who don't promote, they book the venue and the bands and then give you that "for every person over 20 who says they're here to see you we'll give you 50p" rip off talk. We've got a good following in our home town but they don't travel to see us, so whenever we play out of town it's usually to the other bands and their girlfriends.

We put on our own shows and do gig swaps but it's amazing how many bands play at our nights then we don't hear from them again. It's really starting to grate and I'm beginning to dread driving anywhere over a couple of hours away (hence my appeal for help for our Cardiff Barfly gig on Monday!).

[gafbass02]

Im also from Leicester and can attest to the awful state of the cliquey, incestuous music scene there which is indeed as mentioned run by a single non playing individual on a buddy basis. It used to be a thriving and varied lively scene before it began to decline into a hipper than thou culture and was duly hijacked, now its the same few bands playing to the same people at the same venues week in week out and acting like bigshots the funny thing is there are bands from leicester that just get out there and do it but the go largely ignored on the local circuit, case in point:
In 2005 my then band had just sold around 10,000 copies of our debut album around the globe and supported some big names and some huge venues (think glasgow secc, hammersmith apollo) we were regularly featured in rock magazines both here and abroad, not huge but bigger than toilet circuit anyway. I called the local venue (un-named) to arrange a gig, bearing in mind i have played there for 16 years and often filled it over capacity back in the day and have always had a godd turn out with the bands i have played there with. On this occasion however i decided to keep sctum it was me and just book as Doublecross (the band name) whereupon said venue manager said, and i quote:

"Ive never heard of you and if you aint big in Leicester then your'e nobody!"

we played rock city instead.

I have friends from Leicester who,ve toured the world in bands, but no-one has a clue who they are!

Nowadays though i cant get a soul to come and take a chance in leicester on my newly reformed band (split 7 years ago back together now) as we arent one of the regular handful playing often subtandard, bland indie.

Ah well

Edited May 23, 2007 by gafbass02

[Ant]

[quote name='Viajero' post='4702' date='May 22 2007, 10:37 PM']Yeah, does happen. It is an excellent rock scene, comes of a strong student community I suppose.

The name Blue Sky Project rings a bell - I still get the Gig Guide every week, must be that. John Trueman still presiding over the Cockpit/Rocket?[/quote]


I've heard John Trueman is gone now

[quote name='gafbass02' post='4965' date='May 23 2007, 10:24 AM']Im also from Leicester and can attest to the awful state of the cliquey, incestuous music scene there which is indeed as mentioned run by a single non playing individual on a buddy basis. It used to be a thriving and varied lively scene before it began to decline into a hipper than thou culture and was duly hijacked, now its the same few bands playing to the same people at the same venues week in week out and acting like bigshots the funny thing is there are bands from leicester that just get out there and do it but the go largely ignored on the local circuit, case in point:
In 2005 my then band had just sold around 10,000 copies of our debut album around the globe and supported some big names and some huge venues (think glasgow secc, hammersmith apollo) we were regularly featured in rock magazines both here and abroad, not huge but bigger than toilet circuit anyway. I called the local venue (un-named) to arrange a gig, bearing in mind i have played there for 16 years and often filled it over capacity back in the day and have always had a godd turn out with the bands i have played there with. On this occasion however i decided to keep sctum it was me and just book as Doublecross (the band name) whereupon said venue manager said, and i quote:

"Ive never heard of you and if you aint big in Leicester then your'e nobody!"

we played rock city instead.

I have friends from Leicester who,ve toured the world in bands, but no-one has a clue who they are!

Nowadays though i cant get a soul to come and take a chance in leicester on my newly reformed band (split 7 years ago back together now) as we arent one of the regular handful playing often subtandard, bland indie.

Ah well[/quote]

Someone once told me never to gig in leicester for these reasons.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Ant

[DanOwens]

Wow guys. In Wigan (my home town) they seem to suffer similar problems, but generally the most difficult thing is apathy from the audience. There's two guys in Wigan called Lupine Promotions and due to their hard work, we've had pretty much EVERY breakthrough Indie act for two years (Arctic Monkeys, Libertines, Babyshambles, Dead 60s, Jamie T, the list goes on), but when the crowd get there they stand by the bar at the back until the DJ comes on and they can have a dance.

The cheek there is that 3 months down the line, when said act has made it and the DJ is playing their tunes, the same apathetic no-hopers are asking for the guy back. It's a real shame. Thank god I live in Liverpool!!!!!

DaN

PS. Only ever gigged the Charlotte in Leicester and despite the very difficult sound engineer I had a reasonable amount of fun in front of a reasonable amount of people (we did have management and were touring though!!)

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='TheBrokenDoor' post='5012' date='May 23 2007, 11:32 AM']PS. Only ever gigged the Charlotte in Leicester and despite the very difficult sound engineer I had a reasonable amount of fun in front of a reasonable amount of people (we did have management and were touring though!!)[/quote]

was his name Phil? It seems his reputation precedes him! 27briagde get on alright with him, i think it's just a matter of becoming accustomed to it.

[wateroftyne]

The Newcastle scene is pretty healthy and open, I reckon. There's a lot going on in lots of different circles.

We're pretty lucky.

[The Funk]

We're from London and play on London's toilet circuit.

You get some nice promoters/bookers, who are professional, hard-working and friendly - if you find them, keep them onside.

You get some people who think their venue's more culturally significant than it really is - if you really want to play there, put up with a small amount of talk along the lines of "we're a prestigious venue with lots of international touring bands booked". If it makes them feel good about themselves being able to spout sh!t like that, let them. So long as you get the gig, right?

Generally, we haven't dealt with anyone who's a complete c**t or criminal yet.

All any promoter or booker cares about is whether you can draw a crowd, even if they like your music and won't rip you off. And on London's toilet circuit, if you're one of 4 bands on a bill, a crowd is 35-50 people, even in the Time Out-listed venues.

So I can see why venues would be reluctant to book bands that have no fans in the area. You're not going to get many travelling fans. The only way around that is reciprocal gig-sharing ("come play support for us - we'll bring 100 people so you don't have to bring any - next month we'll play support for you and you bring the crowd").

[Breakfast]

Best general promotion trick I ever encountered for getting a decent number of people in was at The Cavern- on their originals nights they decided the order on the evening based on the number of people each band had through the door by 8:30.

It was a really good way of making sure that most of the people stayed there most of the time...