51m0n Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='redstriper' post='562113' date='Aug 6 2009, 05:41 PM']The Berg 115 is only the best 115 you can buy if you like it yourself - I don't. I haven't tried a Compact, but I have a lighter 115 that sounds great to me, so I don't need to. Forget the science and popular opinion and use your ears![/quote] Well absolutely. Popular opinion is only that, opinions. There is much to be said for a good look at popular opinion though, otherwise you wouldnt be on this forum. If it doesnt float your boat it doesnt float your boat. That doesnt mean its not widely considered an exceptional cab, it just means that it isnt what you want from such a cab. Historically I dont like 15s, I much prefer 10s. But I do like the HT115, especially with a fretless, its a lovely sound - that could only be better if a decent player was behind the fretless in question, rather than me . Possibly what I like has changed, or maybe the fact that I like it and you dont can be attributed to more general differences in our preferences in tone. Who can say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='redstriper' post='562113' date='Aug 6 2009, 05:41 PM']The Berg 115 is only the best 115 you can buy if you like it yourself - I don't. I haven't tried a Compact, but I have a lighter 115 that sounds great to me, so I don't need to. Forget the science and popular opinion and use your ears![/quote] Agreed on the use your ears part. I was never fan of just 1x15 cabs....until I played my Orange cab. I know its not JUST based on the speaker...but plenty of review staff agree that it is a very good 1x15. And, after some careful testing recently, basically having a very well made port gives you a lot of low end. But then you have to compare this to a sealed 4x10...some people definitely prefer the sealed 4x10....its not science, its ears and preference. Thing is, within the modern alternative forms of music, I see a lot of players using non-ported cabs, because they like a really twangy mid cuttin cab with no fat end. Thats just preference. Half of the idea of a good cab to me is someone standing back and saying 'lets forget the science for a moment, as its made the cab sound pretty awful.....lets use our ears.' Which is no doubt exactly what many R&D depts do. Trial and error. Its part science, engineering, physics and art. Lets not forget that music is exactly that...an artform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='Musicman20' post='562133' date='Aug 6 2009, 06:10 PM']Its part science, engineering, physics and art.[/quote] Much like my love-making technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='51m0n' post='562117' date='Aug 6 2009, 05:51 PM']There is much to be said for a good look at popular opinion though, otherwise you wouldnt be on this forum.[/quote] I'm only here to tell everyone else to ignore each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='Musicman20' post='562133' date='Aug 6 2009, 06:10 PM']Half of the idea of a good cab to me is someone standing back and saying 'lets forget the science for a moment, as its made the cab sound pretty awful.....lets use our ears.'[/quote] Anyone who has managed to use the science to make an awful sounding cab simply doesn't have a bloody clue what they're doing! Engineering is a creative and intuitive process, which then uses science to assist. The people who say things like "well science tells you not to do this but it sounds good" are misunderstanding the science. Much of my cab design work happens entirely in my head! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 One of my favourite lecturers once said: Pessimists say the glass is half empty Optomists say its half full Engineers realise that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. To me engineering is the process of saying "science says it should do this but it doesnt do it properly, what do we try next" And I say that as a scientist in an engineering field. (I have a Bsc so im a scientist dammit ) I have to say this is one of my favourite threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Funny the glass twice the size it needs to be is often put forward as a software engineers point of view as well Alex, imagine that with the aid of science and engineering you created the first cab that truly projected sound perfectly across a room, with a completely flat frequency response, in someway doing away with all phase issues, and magically dealing with room nodes and standing waves. You know what, a load of people would hate that sound, for all it was the best engineered cab, they would prefer the sound that their old cab made, warts and all. Thats what people are like, and you can not ever make a cab that will please everyone. Even if you feel you can honestly turn around and say its not the cab chaps, thats what you actually sound like, they are all just going to say, well we prefer sounding better to us through worse cabs. That is why some people never want to change the gear they use. You cannot win that battle, even with the best cabs in the world ever mate. Dont even try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='charic' post='562266' date='Aug 6 2009, 09:22 PM']And I say that as a scientist in an engineering field. (I have a Bsc so im a scientist dammit )[/quote] Was your BSc an 'ology? You're not a scientist unless you've got an 'ology! A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='Alien' post='562294' date='Aug 6 2009, 09:45 PM']Was your BSc an 'ology? You're not a scientist unless you've got an 'ology! A[/quote] Psychology doesn't count What about Chemistry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='charic' post='562266' date='Aug 6 2009, 09:22 PM']One of my favourite lecturers once said: Pessimists say the glass is half empty Optomists say its half full Engineers realise that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.[/quote] Then the marketing department say "Make it half the size it needs to be." Then sell it for twice as much as it should be while telling everyone its 4 times as good as the old one. Edited August 6, 2009 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='steve-soar' post='558676' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:11 PM']I like Claber, he's a straight talking Mother and I like his returns policy.[/quote] As others have said, Alex's atempts to assist Mr.T here are what 'customer support/relations' should be, but very rarely is! [quote name='charic' post='562266' date='Aug 6 2009, 09:22 PM']I have to say this is one of my favourite threads [/quote] +1 Sorry that Mr.T is having such a difficult time of it with his gear, but this really has been one of the most interesting and useful threads on the Forum for ages... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Yep Audio and Music Technology I even understander this new fangled language thats appearing on basschat, I dub it Claberish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='562304' date='Aug 6 2009, 09:55 PM'] As others have said, Alex's atempts to assist Mr.T here are what 'customer support/relations' should be, but very rarely is! +1 Sorry that Mr.T is having such a difficult time of it with his gear, but this really has been one of the most interesting and useful threads on the Forum for ages...[/quote] Yeah we used to get this on bc all the time, random convos and rants. Its all good fun . Omg I just found steve lawson on youtube, now inspired... I NEED a looper ive just figured out what my song was missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 But how will smaller glasses help my bass sound ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 You wont be as drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='charic' post='562348' date='Aug 6 2009, 10:37 PM']You wont be as drunk?[/quote] I must admit, that might help - I'll try it now and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='Alien' post='562294' date='Aug 6 2009, 09:45 PM']Was your BSc an 'ology? You're not a scientist unless you've got an 'ology! A[/quote] Many physicists would disagree with you on this one too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 One advantage of having a bigger glass than is needed (half full), is that more can be added.... = Headroom. On the subject of perfection... I am sure that a Honda (In the eyes + mind of an engineer) is closer to 'perfection' than the Custom bike in my avatar, but guess what....!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 [quote name='Mr.T' post='562408' date='Aug 6 2009, 11:46 PM']One advantage of having a bigger glass than is needed (half full), is that more can be added.... = Headroom. On the subject of perfection... I am sure that a Honda (In the eyes + mind of an engineer) is closer to 'perfection' than the Custom bike in my avatar, but guess what....!!![/quote] Nicely put Mr T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='Mr.T' post='562408' date='Aug 6 2009, 11:46 PM']One advantage of having a bigger glass than is needed (half full), is that more can be added.... = Headroom. On the subject of perfection... I am sure that a Honda (In the eyes + mind of an engineer) is closer to 'perfection' than the Custom bike in my avatar, but guess what....!!![/quote] I'm with you on that. That thing rocks, and I'm not even into bikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 And yet headroom is also an engineering term. And with your bike the important question in your example is "could honda make a bike you would prefer" not if they already do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='charic' post='562508' date='Aug 7 2009, 08:07 AM']And yet headroom is also an engineering term. And with your bike the important question in your example is "could honda make a bike you would prefer" not if they already do [/quote] No, although if I gave my bike to them they could copy it. (Not that they would want to). I handbuilt my bike to my specification without compromises, so it is exactly how I want it to be.... 'till such a time my tastes change. For me, happiness and contentment are not about attaining perfection (and whatever that meaning I attach to that), it is more about being comfortable with where I am at any given point in time.... I might choose to move on, or I might choose to stay where I am! The Japanese factories have had many attempts to build 'Harley Custom' type motorcycles. They are obviously superb engineers, but there products (IMO) always lack 'soul'... because they are too sanitised (perfect?), which misses the point of what 'Custom' bikes are all about. Some people understand and relate to that, and some people just don't... which I think is Ok. I am not knocking Japanese motorcycles, and I think the Yamaha VMax is an exception. I think the same applies to music... We can/could get so hung up on attaining perfection that we lose the 'soul'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Quite... if it isn't what you want then move on... same with cabs... the sound is the way you hear it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='Mr.T' post='562652' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:52 AM']We can/could get so hung up on attaining perfection that we lose the 'soul'.[/quote] So true. Get it in the first few takes or give up! Strange though it might sound, I am totally not a gear tweaker. I tend to put my rig in the place that seems intuitively best for me, plug in and play. Add some bass boost if necessary and that's it. Fastest soundchecks ever! To veer off on another topic entirely, if you're thinking about upgrading the electronics in your bass, be avant garde and just get some really nice passive pickups and either vol/pan/tone, vol/vol/tone, vol/switch/tone. Throw your onboard preamps away - they might sound more impressive and exciting in the shop but once the music starts I'm no longer convinced that they're a bonus. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.T Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='562661' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:59 AM']I tend to put my rig in the place that seems intuitively best for me, plug in and play. Add some bass boost if necessary and that's it. Fastest soundchecks ever! Alex[/quote] That the place I want to get back to! The only tweeking I ever did with my Trace (If any) was the rather superb 'tilt' control on the SMX amp. I got to the point with that rig that I would just say to the g**tarist "How loud are you", adjust my level to suit (while he let a chord hang)..... and we would play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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