Feel

[Pete Academy]

I was having a discussion with a fellow band member the other day about feel, and whether it comes natural or can be taught. I reckon it's something you develop mainly by what you listen to and consequently play a great deal. How could you teach it?

Any thoughts?...

[thisnameistaken]

I agree with you. I think "feel" is mostly habit.

[Buzz]

Difficultish question

I think the best way to describe feel (and learning of) would be that it's more of an expression of your experience with music, so you don't need to know music theory but you need to learn about music if you can catch my drift. So you can't actually be directly taught feel, but as you learn more (via whichever method) it develops alongside.

[Kiwi]

I don't think it can be taught. Feel is mostly about attitude, so you either get it or you don't. But I think it can be learned.

[wateroftyne]

It can't be taught, only learned.

[chris_b]

If you don't have "feel" you can be taught the mechanics but you'll never be anyway near as good as someone who has natural ability. A good musician has a brain that "works" musically. That can't be taught.

[Chris2112]

I don't think you can teach it, but anyone with a reasonable capability on their instrument will soon learn to mimic "feel" and it's nuances.

[Monz]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='558377' date='Aug 2 2009, 11:41 AM']I don't think it can be taught. Feel is mostly about attitude, so you either get it or you don't. But I think it can be learned.[/quote]

+1 I agree wholeheartedly with this... I think initially it is easier to to get the "feel" right for a genre of music you feel passionate about

Edited August 2, 2009 by Monz

[6h5g]

[quote name='Monz' post='558396' date='Aug 2 2009, 11:58 AM']I think initially it is easier to to get the "feel" right for a genre of music you feel passionate about[/quote]

+1 yeah definitely

[timloudon]

It's a broad term, one person may say it's just to do with how well one can groove and another (as mentioned above) would say it's to do with attitude.

Much like feel, the idea that something like expressiveness can't be taught is not true. There have been studies into how musicians use subtle techniques and nuances in order to convey emotion in music, and it's bee shown that they do these things systematically, not randomly. There are a number of systematic (whether conscious or not) techniques which we all apply to our music. These will have come from our musical education and own personal explorations of music.

Surely a good feel comes through practice and experience? Practice can certainly be guided by a teacher. For example, being shown various grooves and being taught about the specifics.

Edited August 2, 2009 by timloudon

[Happy Jack]

[Inexperience] I think it has a lot to do with familiarity. If you're playing a piece that you know inside out, and are completely comfortable playing, it's much easier for the "feel" to develop and bloom.

Playing something that stretches you is far less conducive to "feel" (IMO) because the focus has to be on not cocking it up!

[/Inexperience]

[supabock]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='558384' date='Aug 2 2009, 11:47 AM']It can't be taught, only learned.[/quote]
Listening and playing other peoples lines, styles and techniques will yield your own interpretatition and that in turn will be your feel of the played part.

[xilddx]

I think you have to define what feel means. To me it's a NATURAL inclination to play a certain way which makes the music you are playing sound a certain way to convey a particular mood. I think it's what defines one's musicality above all else. I don't think you can teach it, you learn it through experience and feeling what the music is doing, or should be doing, building on your natural musical personality.

For instance, my favourite sorts of music are dub/reggae, prog rock, Zappa, Kate Bush, Rush, The Police, various clever pop, some R&B and hip hop, a bit of modern jazz fusion, some modern classical and choral music. I can work elements of all those styles and artists into what I do as a musician. However, I don't really "get" jazz, so when I have to play jazzy lines, although they'll be right for the song, they'll probably sound really fake to a jazz head, because I can only approximate a jazz "feel". I approach it as pastiche so at least I get some of my personality in there and possibly a bit of humour. Neverthess, my timing and note choice will sound "wrong" to a jazz afficionado

Edited August 2, 2009 by silddx

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='6h5g' post='558418' date='Aug 2 2009, 12:14 PM']+1 yeah definitely[/quote]

Most of my playing and listening life has revolved around funk. That's not to say I don't like other genres, but I just began to realise at an early age that the bass seemed to be the most important element in that type of music. I rarely care about lyrics. To me the song's groove is what draws me. Because of this I tend to automatically syncopate everything, even a rock groove. To me, you are what you listen to (mainly). I just wouldn't sound right in a rock situation.

[sdgrsr400]

What should be taught/learnt is the ability to really *listen* to what's going on in the music, and how to really tune into the groove. Then you have the feel. There are many subtleties in the way rhythms work in the different genres of music, and the student needs to be open to taking the time to really enter into them. It's not the work of an idle moment to do so, but is possible if they have the right (humble!) attitude.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='558384' date='Aug 2 2009, 11:47 AM']It can't be taught, only learned.[/quote]

Spot on that man!

Alex

[Faithless]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='558470' date='Aug 2 2009, 03:34 PM']Most of my playing and listening life has revolved around funk. That's not to say I don't like other genres, but I just began to realise at an early age that the bass seemed to be the most important element in that type of music. I rarely care about lyrics. To me the song's groove is what draws me. Because of this I tend to automatically syncopate everything, even a rock groove. To me, you are what you listen to (mainly). I just wouldn't sound right in a rock situation.[/quote]


When discussing with my tutor, we've came to the conclusion that a lot of jazz music is actually funk [i]based[/i].

I mean, take Jaco, for example, and listen [i]carefully [/i]to his lines. Yes, harmony, used there is jazzy, but, what about the [i]way[/i], they are played. Yes, it is funk.

Or, other example, walking bass - for me, there always was some funk-feel [i]between [/i]notes, when [i]walking[/i]. I just can't describe it otherwise..

So, all in allyou couldn't properly [i]do [/i]those lines (for eg. Jaco's), if you wouldn't [i]know[/i], what the funk is, right..?

Jazzy-funk, eh?

What I want to say, is, that, to my ears, funk (or, in other words, rhythmic importance) is one of main elements for a bassist. In this case, I'm not taking funk as a music [i]genre[/i], actually, it's more about the mood or approach to music.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Faithless

[William James Easton]

no i can't be taught. 2nd most important thing after passion and before a free mind.

[Pete Academy]

I think, for me, the player that most epitomises the grasp of feel is Me'Shell.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='558364' date='Aug 2 2009, 11:28 AM']I was having a discussion with a fellow band member the other day about feel, and whether it comes natural or can be taught. I reckon it's something you develop mainly by what you listen to and consequently play a great deal. How could you teach it?

Any thoughts?...[/quote]

in one of Paul Gilbert's git tuition videos he does a bit about feel. And does it quite well. So yes it can be taught. However like anything just because it can be taught doesn't necessarily mean it can be learned.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='558576' date='Aug 2 2009, 04:32 PM']..... So yes it can be taught. However like anything just because it can be taught doesn't necessarily mean it can be learned.[/quote]

I was gonna say that I think feel can be learned, but I'm not sure it can be taught Just my opinion.

But my opinion is based on a wee experiment I did. About three months back I video recorded myself playing along to half a dozen or so tracks. Everything was note-perfect. But it's really interesting, because now I play these same tracks way better than I did then. They're still note-perfect, but the "feel" is so much better. They're somehow tighter, the note "punctuation" is better, the technique is better, and all of that - and probably more - adds up to "feel". But no one has taught me; it's just something I've unconsciously learned.

Like I said, my opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Hot Tub

[davidmpires]

I think it can be learned by submerging on the style you plan on playing. i.e. if you want to play latin, you need to listen to it for hours on end, until you feel every change and the most important signatures.

[Tee]

For me, feel, rather like co-ordination, is a natural thing. You're either born with it or you're not.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='558593' date='Aug 2 2009, 04:49 PM']I think it can be learned by submerging on the style you plan on playing. i.e. if you want to play latin, you need to listen to it for hours on end, until you feel every change and the most important signatures.[/quote]

Absolutely spot on.

[XB26354]

As a teacher, that's a tricky question to answer, because what do you mean by feel? I think it means different things to different people. Having a feel for a style of music usually means more than being able to play with a certain attitude - it often goes as far as living the life or culture of that style of music. Take latin music (a very broad description of about 30-40 different distinct styles) for example. It is based on rhythm, so just about every latin player needs to at least understand how all the percussion instruments work, or even better, play some of them. Jimmy Haslip is an example of someone who grew up with latin music and culture, and learned to play lots of different percussion instruments, before he even picked up the bass. He's often not thought of as one of the "greats" but has a very sophisticated rhythmic sense. If you identify with the origins and culture of a style then your ability to approximate a feel is much more likely to sound genuine.
A teacher can only open a students eyes and ears - the rest is down to the student.