john_the_bass Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I play in a 5 piece covers band - bass, drums, 2 guitars and vocals. What I would like to be able to do is add brass and keys to the songs that need them and I would like to explore the possibilty of a drummer playing to a click and having the brass and keys play at the relevant places. Does anybody know where I might obtain such a set of tracks or is it the sort of thing I would have to have a keyboard player make for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 The easiest thing is to get the tracks/sequences made. Either the studio or keys route will be ok... or CD etc The hardest part is getting a drummer to able to play to it.. most think they can but often a lot of them have never come across the neccesity to have to have done it...and therefore have never practised it. If your guy can play to a click then great, run the track in foldback or headphones .. Brass ( synth ) parts and keys can be on a sequencer, but BV's will need to be on a CD, IMV... You want to be careful how obvious you make flying in parts ..Britney and Madonna can do it and nobody cares how much is mimed, but a pub/club band might get some funny looks, IMV.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 There's a whole load of issues you need to address before you even get to the question of how you are going to create your backing parts. 1. How are you going to play the backing track. I'd keep it simple. Minidisk or MP3 player with a backup. Don't use sequencers, DAWs or anything like that. Far too much to go wrong. Backing on one side of the stereo, drummer's guide on the other. Leads to split one side to the drummer's monitoring system, the other to the PA. 2. Drummers guide. Find something your drummer is comfortable playing to. It might be a simple click with an accented downbeat, it might be something a bit more rhythmic. Every drummer is different. However if they're not comfortable they won't keep in sync. Also many drummers are used to setting the tempo and not having to play to a preset one. They'll need good headphones/IEM system and may need some of the PA mix adding in to compensate for the isolation cause by the phones. You'll need a small be good quality mixer, with a hot headphone out level to do this. Also you'll need the drummer to click you through any parts of the song that they wouldn't normally play on so the rest of the band keep in sync with the backing. Don't expect to be able to play to the backing track alone in the foldback and keep in time. You won't. And nothing sounds worse than a band out of sync with it's backing track. As for producing your backing. It's best if someone in the band does it. You as a band will know best what extra bits are essential to making the track work and what's over-complicating it. You'll need the flexibility to be able to produce a track and then make changes after rehearsing as a band with it. Once you start paying someone outside the band to do this it will get expensive quickly. Free MIDI files are about as useful as free tabs, in that they have some passing resemblance to the song, but are only a starting point and not the definitive article. Paid for ones ought to be better but you'll still need to edit them to remove unwanted parts, change the key etc. Plus you'll still need sound sources to realise them with. They'll need to be good. Cheesy sounding backing tracks are horrible. Personally I'd just advertise for a keyboard player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='560250' date='Aug 4 2009, 02:54 PM']Free MIDI files are about as useful as free tabs, in that they have some passing resemblance to the song, but are only a starting point and not the definitive article. Paid for ones ought to be better but you'll still need to edit them to remove unwanted parts, change the key etc. Plus you'll still need sound sources to realise them with. They'll need to be good. Cheesy sounding backing tracks are horrible. Personally I'd just advertise for a keyboard player.[/quote] +2! Or else one of the guitarists could use one of the guitar synth systems. Two birds, one stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 If the parts aren't too complicated (ie not too many changes of notes too quick) the other route is to try midi bass pedals and use a midi sound source so you can play them in with your feet in real time whilst still doing the bass guitar thing, taking pressure off the drummer to play with click tracks. If it's full keyboard parts you need I'd agree a proper kyboard player is the way to go but they can be hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 BigRedX has said it all. Has said thereare a couple of routes you can go down. Someone in the band to do them, if someone can do a good job, but you will need a good sound source, GM sounds are not all that good. Use midi files and change the to you needs, free midi files are hit and miss so I would buy them. This would be my choice but you will also need a good sound source. Get someone else to do them for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='JTUK' post='560141' date='Aug 4 2009, 01:09 PM']You want to be careful how obvious you make flying in parts ..Britney and Madonna can do it and nobody cares how much is mimed, but a pub/club band might get some funny looks, IMV..[/quote] This is unpleasantly true. Me & a guitarist mate did rock covers as a duo, using drums/keys/rhythm guitar backing tracks which we recorded ourselves. I don't think we played a single gig without some half-cut knowall accusing us of miming [i]everything[/i]. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 The singer and lead guitarist from my last proper band now go out as a duo equipped with midi backing tracks to do drums/bass/keys. I have noticed that people tend not to actually watch them perform much but take it as background music in the same way as a jukebox. I think there's some basic law that anything less than three people isn't a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 [quote name='KevB' post='561097' date='Aug 5 2009, 12:56 PM']The singer and lead guitarist from my last proper band now go out as a duo equipped with midi backing tracks to do drums/bass/keys. I have noticed that people tend not to actually watch them perform much but take it as background music in the same way as a jukebox. I think there's some basic law that anything less than three people isn't a band.[/quote] There's no reason why a good duo or even soloist can't grab and hold the attention of a roomful of people. I used to do this a lot with my guitar/vox colleague from Red Jackson. At the risk of being offensive might I suggest that maybe there's not much to watch in the case you mention, and that backing tracks detract far more from a set than they ever add. Not to mention the removal of any spontaneity or flexibility. Take that out and where's the excitement, where's the fun for the musos? And if you're not digging what you're doing, why would anyone want to watch you? If you want to do full-band material, get a full band, but if you want to work as a duo, do material that works for a duo. It's simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have worked on the sound for many a entertainment show cases and seen many successful acts using tracks in many forms. You can get away with much more in a band then you can with tracks. If you are good then people will accept you for what you do. I have worked with many talented people in my life far more talented then I and very few have had any problem with tracks and can enjoy talent for what it is. Many of the duos I know have all spent their time in bands but are fed up with the hassle and politics of been in a band but still want to play songs they enjoy mostly rock or soul. They work in places that can’t afford a band. And most of the time everyone is happy, you will always get grief from punters no matter what you do. Why should they change what they do because other musicians the majority armature say that it is wrong. I would much rather see a good duo any day then a bad band any day and have done the acoustic duo bit I hated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) ...Or just hire a keys player into the band - who can handle a brass patch with one hand and a keys patch with the other. On the occasions when I've done stuff with keys, it makes the songs sound so [i]"expensive"[/i]. Replicating covers becomes much easier as there's another lead instrument to carry the accuracy-critical bits of the 'choon - e.g. "Gimme Some Loving" intro. They also have a useful tendency to side with the rtm section Edited August 5, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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