Fussiness. I Think I May Go Mad...

[rslaing]

It's a bolt on - the potential for setup is unlimited, unlike a neck through.

One other question, are you using the same brand and gauge of strings on both the Squier and the new one?

Also - what is the scale length of your new bass? Is the Squier the same or longer/shorter scale?

[bubinga5]

Just stick with it Josh..there are so many factors involved that could put this right for you..Take it to a professional and explain your problem..thats what there there for...

[rslaing]

[quote name='Josh' post='562989' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:49 PM']2 different brands, both the same gauge though. But I have tried the Smith with a smaller set which I have lying around as well, but still no joy.[/quote]

Try the same brand of strings. Regardless of them being the same gauge, strings have a different tension, and this may be the root of your problem.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='rslaing' post='562991' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:50 PM']It's a bolt on - the potential for setup is unlimited, unlike a neck through.

One other question, are you using the same brand and gauge of strings on both the Squier and the new one?

Also - what is the scale length of your new bass? Is the Squier the same or longer/shorter scale?[/quote]


Good point with scale length, I hate 35" basses, the string tension is far too high and a bit of a stretch to play.

[Josh]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='562990' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:50 PM']You sure your that happy where your going, according to the thread title, you aint!

Either way, i have a nice Pedulla Fretless 5 for you to play on in Bristol, if your ever in town, by all means come on over and play some poor intonated jazz.[/quote]

I see this as more of a temporary road block, we all get them. I probably should of made that a bit more clearer, for that I apologise.

Thanks for the offer Rob, a severe lack of wheels and skills forbids me from taking you up on it.

[quote name='rslaing' post='562991' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:50 PM']It's a bolt on - the potential for setup is unlimited, unlike a neck through.

One other question, are you using the same brand and gauge of strings on both the Squier and the new one?

Also - what is the scale length of your new bass? Is the Squier the same or longer/shorter scale?[/quote]

Pretty sure the Smith is 34", the Squier is 34" also.

[quote name='bubinga5' post='562992' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:50 PM']Just stick with it Josh..there are so many factors involved that could put this right for you..Take it to a professional and explain your problem..thats what there there for...[/quote]

Bridgwater has 2 luthiers, I've already had one bass set up by one (Whom I gave specific preferences to) and he actually managed to balls it up. And the other hasn't got the best reputation and has also fixed up my old Vintage V950, well...he said he identified and removed and replaced the pot that was causing the problem, yet it came back to me and still had the problem and when I asked him about having another look he refused and ceased all contact.

[4000]

[quote name='rslaing' post='562995' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:52 PM']Try the same brand of strings. Regardless of them being the same gauge, strings have a different tension, and this may be the root of your problem.[/quote]

+1. Sometimes it's the simplest things.....string tension within the same gauges can vary enormously from manufacturer to manufacturer, and I mean [i]enormously[/i].

If that doesn't work I'd definitely say take it to a pro. For another £100 plus or minus it may end up playing like a dream. If that doesn't work, then fair enough, consider selling it.

One thing I'll add; the less playing I do (by that I mean rehearsing & gigging), the more fussy/obsessive I get about every aspect of my gear, set up especially. The more I'm actually playing (in the real sense, not just noodling at home), the less it all matters.

Regarding luthiers, you could send it to one of the top pros. Some of them have a bass collection and return service, so you don't even have to leave the comfort of your own home.

Edited August 7, 2009 by 4000

[Josh]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='562997' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:53 PM']Good point with scale length, I hate 35" basses, the string tension is far too high and a bit of a stretch to play.[/quote]

Remember now, both my MTD's were 35" scale and I had no problem. In regards to scale lengths though, I have no preference.

[Shockwave]

One thing i have noticed is this.

Keep a beater bass around, very high tension high gauge strings, with a high action, when your not playing seriously or just rehearsing without the band, play it.

Get your Ken smith bass to a more acceptable (normal) action.

Play the Ken Smith after and you would be amazed at hell well and easy it is to play

[alexclaber]

[quote name='4000' post='563000' date='Aug 7 2009, 07:00 PM']One thing I'll add; the less playing I do (by that I mean rehearsing & gigging), the more fussy/obsessive I get about every aspect of my gear, set up especially. The more I'm actually playing (in the real sense, not just noodling at home), the less it all matters.[/quote]

Absolutely!

Like I said earlier - tone and string excursion are inextricably linked. Bigger lows require bigger excursion unless you lighten your touch. String excursion is inversely proportional to tension so heavier strings or higher tuning or longer string length will help.

If you don't want higher action then you'll have to lighten up with your plucking hand.

And I'm not suggesting you go to high action - there's a lot of different actions in between ridiculously low and high!

Alex

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='563007' date='Aug 7 2009, 07:11 PM']Absolutely!

Like I said earlier - tone and string excursion are inextricably linked. Bigger lows require bigger excursion unless you lighten your touch. String excursion is inversely proportional to tension so heavier strings or higher tuning or longer string length will help.

If you don't want higher action then you'll have to lighten up with your plucking hand.

And I'm not suggesting you go to high action - there's a lot of different actions in between ridiculously low and high!

Alex[/quote]

Lies! There is high action and there is guitars. Do you really want to be a guitarist? Lots of thin strings and a low action?

[jezzaboy]

I`ve got almost the same problem but for different reasons. This year I have bought: Fender us p bass, g&l l2000 tribby, Ibanez sr300, srx700, sr7oo, ARTB100, Fender Classic Jazz, Epi Ebo, thunderbird and am planning to get something different again.

The problem seems to be that I lust after something, convince myself that I will like the neck better or something like that and then 2 weeks later I am fed up with it. It is never anything to do with the play-ability of the bass as that can usually be sorted. And I`m crap at selling things on and drop the price low just to get shot of the things.
I need help as my credit card bill is gettin bloomin scary. Does this happen to anyone else or am I just not right?

Jez

[Kiwi]

My 0.2c FWIW

Ken Smith designs his necks deliberately to have a little bit of give. It helps with getting the growl. I could never get super low action on any of mine because they weren't designed like that. However if you use exposed core strings like La Bella Super Steps, you can still have low-ish action without needing to tweak the saddles much. Otherwise use lighter gauge or titanium strings to reduce the string tension and you won't need to fight against the action so much.

Most wooden necked basses, unless they have super rigid necks like Alembic or Pedulla, will struggle to match a graphite neck for low action. [u]Well constructed[/u] graphite necks are far more rigid and don't flex as much under string tension or when being fret dressed. If you don't like the sound of graphite necks then consider modifying your backline to compensate. For example, if you think a status kb is too cold then consider using a Mark Bass combo to add growl and to shave off some of that high end sizzle. Alternatively, do what I did and invest in a studio quality parametric eq. Graphite necks give you all the frequencies and wood tends to act like a selective dampener. The reason why Rob Green fills the Status Stealth basses with epoxy foam is because the foam also acts like a selective dampener and sweetens the tone up. So its up to you to find a bass that at least gives you what you're looking for in terms of growl and depth and remove those components you don't like hearing with your backline like sizzle or brittleness.

Alternatively if you know what you want in a bass, and you know that what you want will give you the sound you want then go custom. I think you'll find it easier to solve your issues if you look at the bigger picture, your bass is one ingredient in a recipe that includes strings, preamp/power amp, speakers, stage acoustics, effects etc. modify each to get the flavour you are after.

Personally I've found you can make the tone of a bass become more rounder with higher action but I've never liked that sound myself. Not growly enough. I tend to look for basses that are warm and growly and use my backline to modify the mids and highs to taste.

[Josh]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='563090' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:37 PM']My 0.2c FWIW

Ken Smith designs his necks deliberately to have a little bit of give. It helps with getting the growl. I could never get super low action on any of mine because they weren't designed like that. However if you use exposed core strings like La Bella Super Steps, you can still have low-ish action without needing to tweak the saddles much. Otherwise use lighter gauge or titanium strings to reduce the string tension and you won't need to fight against the action so much.

Most wooden necked basses, unless they have super rigid necks like Alembic or Pedulla, will struggle to match a graphite neck for low action. Well constructed graphite necks are far more rigid and don't flex as much under string tension or when being fret dressed. If you don't like the sound of graphite necks then consider modifying your backline to compensate. For example, if you think a status kb is too cold then consider using a Mark Bass combo to add growl and to shave off some of that high end sizzle. Alternatively, do what I did and invest in a studio quality parametric eq. Graphite necks give you all the frequencies and wood tends to act like a selective dampener. The reason why Rob Green fills the Status Stealth basses with epoxy foam is because the foam also acts like a selective dampener and sweetens the tone up. So its up to you to find a bass that at least gives you what you're looking for in terms of growl and depth and remove those components you don't like hearing with your backline like sizzle or brittleness.

Alternatively if you know what you want in a bass, and you know that what you want will give you the sound you want then go custom. I think you'll find it easier to solve your issues if you look at the bigger picture, your bass is one ingredient in a recipe that includes strings, preamp/power amp, speakers, stage acoustics, effects etc. modify each to get the flavour you are after.

Personally I've found you can make the tone of a bass become more rounder with higher action but I've never liked that sound myself. Not growly enough. I tend to look for basses that are warm and growly and use my backline to modify the mids and highs to taste.[/quote]

Thanks for that Steve.

I did have a EBS rig previously and moved it on because it was ceaselessly harsh, even with the both the horn and treble cut. I love my GK rig, the KS sounds brilliant through it, there's no debate about the tone of the bass. It's the classic Smith warm growl. But, I just find it silly that I'm currently sat here with my Squier happily playing to some Stevie and it is almost effortless and the tone is just right (Admittedly some new picks ups would definitely help). All I've ever done to this bass is adjusted the bridge saddles a little, that's it.

I did have another sit down with the Smith a few hours ago and tried a higher action and lighter touch, but the truth is I'm now sacrificing my own nuances, the things that make me an individual player. I don't want to have to do that. I really think I should move it on and I will.

As mentioned, I've had basses which have been so easy to get my set up and I'm considering tracking down that very Sadowsky or a similar NYC 5 string.

[Kiwi]

Well it might just be that you prefer the sound of jazz basses. It goes without saying that a Smith won't give you a jazz bass sound but it can sometimes fit other musical situations a little better. For example, where you need a solid and fat low end in RnB, reggae or hip hop. Doesn't mean to say a jazz bass won't fill the chair but the Smith might sit in the mix better because its less aggressive sounding.

As ever, horses for courses.

[rslaing]

[quote name='Josh' post='563100' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:52 PM']Thanks for that Steve.

But, I just find it silly that I'm currently sat here with my Squier happily playing to some Stevie and it is almost effortless and the tone is just right (Admittedly some new picks ups would definitely help). All I've ever done to this bass is adjusted the bridge saddles a little, that's it.[/quote]

[quote]As mentioned, I've had basses which have been so easy to get my set up and I'm considering tracking down that very Sadowsky or a similar NYC 5 string.[/quote]

You have answered your problem yourself. Just don't buy "boutique basses" if you can satisfy your own demands with things you already have.

Just concentrate on the music. The notes you produce are much more important, because in 99% of cases, especially for bass players, you will NEVER produce the sound live that you either hear on a CD, or in a recording situation. Just accept it.

I have been around a long time, and OCD is a common problem with bass players regarding gear. It makes up around 90% of the posts in this forum, for example.

I have a lot of different basses/instruments.

Sometimes you have to adapt to the instrument, and not expect it to be the other way round.

[OldGit]

[quote name='metaltime' post='562949' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:05 PM']Why not get a pro to set it up like you want it they might be able to work a bit of magic.[/quote]

I'd suggest you take your bass to Eltham Jones
[url="http://www.edgeguitarservices.co.uk/index.htm"]http://www.edgeguitarservices.co.uk/index.htm[/url]

[Josh]

[quote]You have answered your problem yourself. Just don't buy "boutique basses" if you can satisfy your own demands with things you already have.[/quote]

You know what, I think your right . I think maybe all I need is just one high end Jazz and that should be it. Not necessarily boutique but still rather sought after.

[quote]Just concentrate on the music. The notes you produce are much more important, because in 99% of cases, especially for bass players, you will NEVER produce the sound live that you either hear on a CD, or in a recording situation. Just accept it.[/quote]

Again, sound advice.

[quote]I have been around a long time, and OCD is a common problem with bass players regarding gear. It makes up around 90% of the posts in this forum, for example.

I have a lot of different basses/instruments.

Sometimes you have to adapt to the instrument, and not expect it to be the other way round. [/quote]

I think I just had high hopes for the bass, and they just fell short of the mark this time around. Oh well, someone else will benefit from it .

Edited August 7, 2009 by Josh

[Kiwi]

Rslaing if you're asserting that boutique basses are all the same, this isn't true. There may be a boutique bass out that that Josh likes but hasn't played yet so lets be open minded about the subject at least. But if he's happy with his jazz bass then fair play. I'm perfectly happy with my £700 Spector, it wipes the floor with my Smiths but there isn't a lot different in terms of their basic design or quality.

[Delberthot]

There's probably 10 or 20 other members reading this thread right now cos everyone has stories about their own journey to finding their ideal bass.

Personally, I was heavily into the Red Hot Chili Peppers - right down to having the black Stingray 5 string (same colour used on Funky Monks), Gallien Krueger 800RB and the DOD Envelope filter. After one particularly loud gig I sold the lot and embarked on an oddesy to find my ideal bass which covered every letter of the alphabet to include some of the best and worst basses in the entire globe.

After 50 basses I had Warmoth build me something and this bass has been the bass that I always use ever since. Other basses have come and gone but the gold one remains - I have never ever thought about selling it.

I am a very aggressive player, I've always used 45 gauge strings, I have no intention of ever playing with a lighter touch so I have a particular bass set up with quite a high action and a very specific set of strings to allow me to play exactly how I want.

This has taken so long to type but the actual journey took about 19 months to go through all these basses to find the best and worst of them to get to my perfect bass

[rslaing]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='563134' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:23 PM']If you're asserting that boutique basses are the same, this isn't true. There may be a boutique bass out that that Josh likes but hasn't played yet.[/quote]

I'm not. What I inferred was that if he is happy with his Squier, stay with it and stop randomly buying gear until he physically picks one up and is happy enough to confidently buy it.

I am probably one the main "appreciators" of boutique instruments, but I also understand that they sometimes require the player to adapt to them rather than the other way around.

But I also know that if I found a bass, as Josh has with his Squier, that satisfies his demands - why bother spending money (and consistently losing it) on basses just because he might feel he needs a posh brand? It doesn't make any difference to anyones ability as a bass player.

Jaco played some really crap Fenders in the 70's (cos some of the quality was poor - I used to sell them) , but the music he produced was still brilliant.

Having a great instrument/gear doesn't make you a good musician. Too many people are on the search for the "holy grail" of basses. They don't exist. It's all down to the player and his fingers and musical skill.

So stick with what you are happy with, and eventually you will find the bass that you are/were looking for.

Edited August 7, 2009 by rslaing

[rslaing]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='563134' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:23 PM']Rslaing if you're asserting that boutique basses are all the same, this isn't true.[/quote]

I am still trying to find the bit where I said the above?

I'll try Specsavers tomorrow............

[4000]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='563059' date='Aug 7 2009, 08:53 PM']Lies! There is high action and there is guitars. Do you really want to be a guitarist? Lots of thin strings and a low action?[/quote]

Yes.

[Josh]

[quote]I'm not. What I inferred was that if he is happy with his Squier, stay with it and stop randomly buying gear until he physically picks one up and is happy enough to confidently buy it.[/quote]

I don't just get another bass at random, I get one when I can afford one or when I want to try something new. And unfortunatley I don't live any where near any boutique bass stores at all so trying said basses is a much harder task.

[quote]I am probably one the main "appreciators" of boutique instruments, but I also understand that they sometimes require the player to adapt to them rather than the other way around.[/quote]

I think some would argue that some of the price tags they carry, it should be the bass that adapts to the player.

[quote]But I also know that if I found a bass, as Josh has with his Squier, that satisfies his demands - why bother spending money (and consistently losing it) on basses just because he might feel he needs a posh brand? It doesn't make any difference to anyones ability as a bass player.[/quote]

The Squier is far from perfect, in fact it has 2 tones to it's name and the tone knob is awful, it ruins the tone if it's even nudged. Luckily, I'm constantly trading basses so I rarely loose out on much money at all. I don't feel I need a posh brand, I just prefer those brands. I'm not a brand snob and I would happily play an unamed bass if it tickled my fancy.

[quote]Having a great instrument/gear doesn't make you a good musician. Too many people are on the search for the "holy grail" of basses. They don't exist. It's all down to the player and his fingers and musical skill.[/quote]

No one ever said it did, some people may act like that but they themselves know they can't back it up.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Josh

[4000]

[quote name='rslaing' post='563114' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:07 PM']You have answered your problem yourself. Just don't buy "boutique basses" if you can satisfy your own demands with things you already have.

Just concentrate on the music. The notes you produce are much more important, because in 99% of cases, especially for bass players, you will NEVER produce the sound live that you either hear on a CD, or in a recording situation. Just accept it.

I have been around a long time, and OCD is a common problem with bass players regarding gear. It makes up around 90% of the posts in this forum, for example.

I have a lot of different basses/instruments.

Sometimes you have to adapt to the instrument, and not expect it to be the other way round. [/quote]

Good call!

[bythesea]

[quote name='Josh' post='563157' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:47 PM']I think some would argue that some of the price tags they carry, it should be the bass that adapts to the player.[/quote]
Totally disagree with this - if it is a custom instrument then yes, it should be built to be exactly what you want (providing your luthier knows what you want). But a boutique bass I see as being more like a high end car. You get one because it does what it does, not so you can change it to do something you think it ought to be able to do.