Pete Academy Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Dear Sound Engineers, Believe it or not we bass players care a great deal about our sound. This is reflected in the sheer amount of dosh we plough into our instruments and amplification. Having a good onstage sound is integral to our performance - the better we sound, the better the band sound. So when we would rather use our own rig rather than (in our opinion) the inferior house or support band's rig, please don't patronise us by saying, 'What's wrong with using theirs? Bass is bass, innit?' After all, you would never tell the guitarist to forsake his Mesa Boogie for the early 80s HH Valve Sound combo and say, 'Guitar is guitar, innit?' would you? Also, I know you are the band's DJ and are kindly letting them use your PA at the wedding gig, and we're just standing in for that one gig. So when we stack our gear on crates so the speaker is right by our ear, please don't make us put the gear down onto the stage because 'it sounds better'. It might sound better for you, but trust us, due to years of gigging, our hearing has suffered a bit. And finally, yes we know that due to the laws of physics, the sound from speakers is thrown forward, causing it to be substantially different depending on where we stand in relation to where our rig is. Thank you for suggesting we'd be better standing forward, away from the speakers, but some of us quite like our little 'comfort zone' right by the rig. I hope this clarifies a few issues. Thank you for listening. The Bass Community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodysprefect Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Also, since I own and use active basses, you maybe ought to use your ears and abandon that magical fender setting. You needn't crank the bass to 11 on my channel tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='nobody's prefect' post='568627' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:26 AM']Also, since I own and use active basses, you maybe ought to use your ears and abandon that magical fender setting. You needn't crank the bass to 11 on my channel tonight.[/quote] +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 And some of the audience have ears as well as feelings and would really like to hear something other than a dull thud in he chest from the Roscoe bass on stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Oh, and a double bass, if you've never seen one before, is a bit different from a bass guitar apart from the obvious one of size. So you can turn all those expensive sub-woofers right off and send the sound through the stand speakers. Forget the bass (this isn't a disco) and try to get some middle/top clarity. I've got some good backline so the guys in the band won't want me coming through the stage monitors. And you can di from my amp, I'll give you the appropriate input level and yes, it is very good gear and no, it won't damage your equipment. Oh, and finally, when you get a balance that we're all happy with, just walk away, go to the bar, anything, but don't fiddle about. You'll know whether we're happy because at the end we'll give you and your mate a namecheck and ask for the audience's appreciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='568632' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:37 AM']And some of the audience have ears as well as feelings and would really like to hear something other than a dull thud in he chest from the Roscoe bass on stage[/quote] Yep, I always ask the sound guy, 'How was it?' and he replies, 'Bass sounded great.' Then later I get an email from a bass player who said he couldn't hear me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) Sound Engineering is a thankless task though but it always raises a wry smile when I remember that, with "big PA" gigs the subtle nuances of how we sound are left to someone who spends their working hours immersed in 100+ Db noise and generally without any ear protection ....... Edited August 14, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='568632' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:37 AM']And some of the audience have ears as well as feelings and would really like to hear something other than a dull thud in he chest from the Roscoe bass on stage[/quote] +1.. for the Fender bass, even. Also, Mr. Engineer... Do you see that thing next to the bass player's mic on the stage plan? Yep, it's a monitor. I know you think it's on there by accident, but it's not. Bass players like to hear what's going on, too. So.. be a diamond and make sure one is provided. Preferably one that works, and is plugged in. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 can i add something not related to bass ? please stop making the kick drum sound like an alesis drum machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodysprefect Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' post='568644' date='Aug 14 2009, 10:52 AM']+1.. for the Fender bass, even.[/quote] Yeah, I guess. Depends on what kind of sound engineers one works with, but f***ing up the fender sound is not anywhere as likely as applying that magical fender setting to an active bass. If only fender produced decent instruments! Kidding. Mostly. Fender's the same as any other musical instrument giant - they are out to make a buck, and if making a buck doesn't preclude making good instruments, they'll make good instruments. As it is, they make instruments, some of them very good, some of them real dogs, but mostly average. I DO think that warwick or Music Man produce less dogs per outstanding instrument. Edited August 14, 2009 by nobody's prefect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='nobody's prefect' post='568666' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:16 AM']Yeah, I guess. Depends on what kind of sound engineers one works with, but f***ing up the fender sound is not anywhere as likely as applying that magical fender setting to an active bass. If only fender produced decent instruments! [/quote] If only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodysprefect Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='568667' date='Aug 14 2009, 11:19 AM']If only...[/quote] Have you seen the way Jazz Basses dress hereabouts? No decency in those slags, I tell you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Adding to Bassace's comments it's dead easy to confuse a soun engineer - just show up with traditional acoustic instruments (even with fitted expensive pickups). Most variations of guitar / bass / drums seem to cause blind panic. That said, big shout to Harley Dave on the London Americana circuit who knows his stuff. He even once mailed me a lead I'd left behind at his own expense. Top bloke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='nobody's prefect' post='568668' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:21 AM']Have you seen the way Jazz Basses dress hereabouts? No decency in those slags, I tell you![/quote] ... and those Tyneside Precisions! Out on a Saturday night in all weathers with no covers! Edited August 14, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odub Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 My last gig I dragged my Mesa Boogie walkabout to the gig, only to be told I was going to be going straight into the PA via the house DI box, Can I not use the D.I. on my amp? No, How's about the D.I. on the micro bass on my pedal board that I'm using anyway? No. So in the end my chain was bass->microbass->House DI->Amp for on stage monitoring (I didn't get my own monitor). The sadest thing is my partner reckoned my bass sounded better than usual . Though i put that down to all the practice innit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='568678' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:35 AM']... and those Tyneside Precisions! Out on a Saturday night in all weathers with no covers![/quote] all fur coat and nay knickers ? must be a darras hall precision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I must have been lucky with all the sound engineers I've encountered. Even with SugarBox which which was all DI (7 feeds for synths, samples, bass and guitar) except for the vocals, cymbals and hihat, when the sound engineer saw that we had our own DI boxes and canon leads they were close to overjoyed. Never a problem at all. Which was probably just as well because if we'd come across some of the attitudes reported here we simply wouldn't have been able to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='568690' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:46 AM']I must have been lucky with all the sound engineers I've encountered. Even with SugarBox which which was all DI (7 feeds for synths, samples, bass and guitar) except for the vocals, cymbals and hihat, when the sound engineer saw that we had our own DI boxes and canon leads they were close to overjoyed. Never a problem at all. Which was probably just as well because if we'd come across some of the attitudes reported here we simply wouldn't have been able to play.[/quote] Most of what I do is largely acoustic, but pretty punchy, and heavy on the harmonies. It confuses the hell out of them, believe me...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I take it that most of you posting here are talking about original act's? When I was playing in an original act, we had our own sound engineer that we took from venue to venue..... most of the other serious bands we were playing with done the same... and most venues accepted that this was the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='568707' date='Aug 14 2009, 10:00 AM']I take it that most of you posting here are talking about original act's? When I was playing in an original act, we had our own sound engineer that we took from venue to venue..... most of the other serious bands we were playing with done the same... and most venues accepted that this was the norm.[/quote] We have preferred people, who are fab, but they're not always available. Sometimes you just have to take what you're given.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odub Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='568707' date='Aug 14 2009, 10:00 AM']I take it that most of you posting here are talking about original act's? When I was playing in an original act, we had our own sound engineer that we took from venue to venue..... most of the other serious bands we were playing with done the same... and most venues accepted that this was the norm.[/quote] Not the pits I play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) [quote name='crez5150' post='568707' date='Aug 14 2009, 10:00 AM']I take it that most of you posting here are talking about original act's? When I was playing in an original act, we had our own sound engineer that we took from venue to venue..... most of the other serious bands we were playing with done the same... and most venues accepted that this was the norm.[/quote] No, a covers band, but we've done a lot of charity events, and quite a few festivals and bike rallies etc. My bass has often been reduced to an inaudible thud ("it's only bass!"). Edited August 14, 2009 by Adrenochrome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 aww were not so bad lol. The parts that annoy me are the usual di argument, i hate doing it myself and when certain sound engineers forget They work for the band not the other way round. Last gig i went to was to see a mates band live, when the guy want looking i liberated his desk and moved the mics, in less than 2 mins i had people saying how much better it sounded despite the fact i didnt tell anyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='568715' date='Aug 14 2009, 10:03 AM']We have preferred people, who are fab, but they're not always available. Sometimes you just have to take what you're given..[/quote] We are self contained these days but in previous lives (on sax mostly and covers bands) we had preferred people when we hired the PA in ourselves but the in house PA engineers were a very mixed bag ranging from really good and really nice to ogres with zero social skills and insufficient gear "oh so you really do want a mic per horn? I don't have enough". In the end I evolved a"self contained" setup to take: a good mic, stand and clip-on sound reflector so I didn't have to argue over hearing myself in the monitors. We had a standard shopping list of stuff to have in the different monitor mixes and if we got that it all went well. If they decided they knew better the show still went well but was a lot harder to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 [quote name='odub' post='568682' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:37 AM']My last gig I dragged my Mesa Boogie walkabout to the gig, only to be told I was going to be going straight into the PA via the house DI box, Can I not use the D.I. on my amp? No, How's about the D.I. on the micro bass on my pedal board that I'm using anyway? No. So in the end my chain was bass->microbass->House DI->Amp for on stage monitoring (I didn't get my own monitor). The sadest thing is my partner reckoned my bass sounded better than usual . Though i put that down to all the practice innit.[/quote] I would never have accepted that mate. Stand up for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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