Covers Bands Doing Small(ish) Gigs - A Question

[Hot Tub]

So, you're doing your thing in the local pub/club, playing 60s/70s/80s rock/soul/blues covers.


Do you play the songs in their original key?



The reason I ask is that I feel the time is approaching when I may end up on stage. I have posted about this previously ([url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=52797&hl=hot+tub"]post no. 8[/url]) and believe me, it's a big deal. Probably gonna be a "guest spot" on bass for a couple of songs, but there won't be any rehearsal. What can I expect?

I [i][b][u]have [/u][/b][/i]to do this, and I'm scared sh!tless.

[bythesea]

Not necessarily - depends on the vocalist. One way to get round this to do is learn the shapes and then once you know the key root work from there.

And if the worst comes to the worst stick to the root notes. You can always work your way back in from there. Done it myself a few times

And good luck - once the first time is over you'll have crossed a big hurdle (I remember the other thread)

Edited August 14, 2009 by bythesea

[pete.young]

Sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes we need to adjust either up or down a few semitones to put it into the singers best vocal range.

[bethnalgreen]

Generally speaking the original key is your starting point, but then it's whatever suits your singer.

Try and work it so that you have a shape which you can move around the fret board with ease. If you're not copying the song note for note, then you're in control and can stick with roots or (for example) roots thru to fifths across just two strings.

JJ

[Hot Tub]

So, if it's not in the original key (which is the one I know, inside out, back to front, upside down), is it OK to shoot the singer?

Seriously though, thanks for the pointers. I can transpose pretty much anything, but probably not at a moment's notice......

Edited August 14, 2009 by Hot Tub

[Mickeyboro]

I play in a functions band and dep with a party band. They have two or three duplicate numbers (eg Saw Her Standing There, Ruby) which are played in D (one band) or E (t'other) depending on the singer's ability to hit the high notes.

I have to engage brain before moving fingers, not an easy thing to do at my age...

[nick]

[quote name='Mickeyboro' post='569473' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:40 PM']I play in a functions band and dep with a party band. They have two or three duplicate numbers (eg Saw Her Standing There, Ruby) which are played in D (one band) or E (t'other) depending on the singer's ability to hit the high notes.

I have to engage brain before moving fingers, not an easy thing to do at my age...[/quote]

I have the same issue, with couple of bands I play with. I note the keys on the setlists, though even then still manage to cock it up occaisionally

Edited August 14, 2009 by nick

[Happy Jack]

I see from your sig that you have a 5-string. Make sure that's the bass you have with you on the night.

If there's a key change on the night, anything you can play on a 4-string can easily be transposed (as necessary) by dropping to the B-string.

The most important thing is not your transposition skills or your bass, it's your attitude when you walk up on stage.

Focus on staying calm and relaxed, force a big smile onto your face and nod casually to the other guys who are already there, take your time. By the time you have to play your first note, you'll already be unwinding.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='569491' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:53 PM']I see from your sig that you have a 5-string. Make sure that's the bass you have with you on the night.[/quote]


I love each of my instruments, but the Cort is my "go to" bass, the one I'm most comfortable on, and the one I'd take.


To flip my original question the other way around: How easy/acceptable would it be for me to ask the band to play in the original ("my") key? Given that it's just for a couple of songs, and I've had no rehearsal time?

[Cat Burrito]

I totally mess around with covers - change keys, everything. I agree with the comments on singers voices & must confess I've always prefered to play stuff that's played about with a bit. Most bands don't.

[steantval]

I have played in several cover bands and in my opinion the band is only as good as the lead vocalist.

If the vocalist is rubbish the band will come over as rubbish.

All of the bands I have been in have had the luxury of having superb vocalists and we have never had the arsing about of changing keys.

If you are constantly having to change keys to suit a limited vocal talent, ditch the songs and choose ones they can sing.

Certain key changes totally wreck the feel of certain songs, as I have witnessed on many occasions.

[acidbass]

[quote name='steantval' post='569547' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:50 PM']Certain key changes totally wreck the feel of certain songs, as I have witnessed on many occasions.[/quote]

+1 on this point. I find that 'Summer of 69' sounds totally different when my band does it in C instead of D. I generally rally to include it as little as possible because of this, which is a shame, because it's a great song in D!

[leschirons]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='569520' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:27 PM']I love each of my instruments, but the Cort is my "go to" bass, the one I'm most comfortable on, and the one I'd take.


To flip my original question the other way around: How easy/acceptable would it be for me to ask the band to play in the original ("my") key? Given that it's just for a couple of songs, and I've had no rehearsal time?[/quote]

I wouldn't ask the band to change the key. You could make it difficult for the vocalist (assuming it's a vocal number) and you're also asking every other person on stage except the drummer to play it differently as opposed to just yourself changing key. If you make a cock-up on bass at a pub gig, about 2% of the audience will notice. If the vocalist is screeching to hit notes he can't achieve, everyone will notice. If you're not confident about it, then don't get up there.

[Johngh]

[quote name='leschirons' post='569614' date='Aug 14 2009, 11:14 PM']I wouldn't ask the band to change the key. You could make it difficult for the vocalist (assuming it's a vocal number) and you're also asking every other person on stage except the drummer to play it differently as opposed to just yourself changing key. If you make a cock-up on bass at a pub gig, about 2% of the audience will notice. If the vocalist is screeching to hit notes he can't achieve, everyone will notice. If you're not confident about it, then don't get up there.[/quote]


+ 1 Most of the time, the only reason a band will play in a different key to the original is because the vocalist can't hit the notes in the songs original key.



This thread reminds me of something that happened to me a few years ago. I was living and working in Brazil, and I got to be good friends with a band out there. One night when I was at one of their shows, out of the blue, the bass player called me up to take over bass duties for a couple of songs with no warning or rehearsal at all. He was playing a Musicman Stingray Fretless 5er, which made it all the more interesting because at that time I had never played a fretless or a 5 string. As I walked on stage I told him I could not do it as I had never played a fretless or a 5, he just gave me the bass and said "No matter, there is a first time for everthing" and just walked off and left me to it !

[skankdelvar]

Just ask them in advance which songs you might sit in on, and ask them what key they play them in. Get solid confirmation, as people have a tendency to mis-remember.

Then go away and learn the parts in those keys. If it's Rock, Soul, Blues they'll probably be fairly straightforward songs. Failing that, buy a capo

[OldGit]

Learn to play the likley tunes without using any open strings. That way up or down a tone will generally be fairly easy to do, especially on a 5.


Bass is the easiest instrument to transpose on, generally, as its just the same pattern staring in a different place.

and no, you can't ask them to change key to fit around you. That's just not on.

if you find the tune on Chordie some of them have a transpose option on the right hand side. Eg here's [url="http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.xguitar.com/guitar-tabs/bowling_for_soup/lets_do_it_for_johnny/summer_of_69.txt"]Summer of '69 (Bowling for Soup version)[/url]

Try it in a few keys.

[pete.young]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='569464' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:36 PM']So, if it's not in the original key (which is the one I know, inside out, back to front, upside down), is it OK to shoot the singer? [/quote]

No. Nobody goes to see a covers band because of the bassist.

Dont think notes, think intervals. Keys become irrelevant, you look good (or at least, competent :-)

[pete.young]

[quote name='steantval' post='569547' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:50 PM']If you are constantly having to change keys to suit a limited vocal talent,[/quote]

The fact that there is a better key to suit the voice of individual singers is not necessarily the sign of a limited vocal talent. Particularly when the song is recorded by a man and your vocalist is female, or vice versa.

The MOST important thing as far as a covers band is concerned is getting the song in the right key so that the vocalist can do the best possible performance. Tough for many musos egos to accept but this is a basic fact of life so the sooner you get used to it the better.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='569441' date='Aug 14 2009, 08:21 PM']The reason I ask is that I feel the time is approaching when I may end up on stage. I have posted about this previously ([url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=52797&hl=hot+tub"]post no. 8[/url]) and believe me, it's a big deal. Probably gonna be a "guest spot" on bass for a couple of songs, but there won't be any rehearsal.[/quote]

Bloody hell, you're braver than you think!

In terms of key changes: Learn to play the songs without using open strings. That way if it's in a different key you can rely on muscle memory and just move your hands to the new position. (personally I often avoid open strings anyway because they have a different timbre to fretted notes, unless I want that sound). It can be fairly common for a song to be transposed for the vocalist, but it usually won't move far, maybe a tone at most, unlikely to be any more than that, unless the singer is really bad. So imagine (or practice) playing the songs a tone away from from where the recording is - if you can cope with that you should be OK.

I have to say reading your other thread you are quite an interesting individual. It's hard to believe you've stuck with what is essentially an accompanist's instrument for 30 years without ever accompanying anyone. If you were anywhere near York I'd invite you to come and take part in rehearsals with my band in my place (I sing too so I wouldn't be left with nothing to do) just to give you a low-key opportunity to face your phobia. There are strictly no cocks in my band, you'd get on with them all effortlessly.

If you ever are planning to be around York and you're feeling brave, let me know and I'll send you some tunes to learn. And good luck with your gig! At the very least remember to enjoy yourself. You might only realise you enjoyed it some time after you get off the stage, but there will be moments that stick in your mind as being special. Those are what will draw you back.

Edited August 14, 2009 by thisnameistaken

[chris_b]

Singers are always the limiting factor in a band. Keys, songs, they just can't do anything that they don't fancy! We on the other hand have to cheerfully play what ever rubbish they come up with!!

[Dropzone]

The other option could be to learn the song and then retune your bass to what ever key they are playing in. Make sure you have a chat with the band before hand and see what key they are in. We play everything generally a semi tone down, aprt from a couple of slipknot numbers / stone sour that are in the same key as going lower would be crazy/

Cheers

Mike

[alant]

As mentioned earlier some songs can sound a bit odd in a different key, but the vocalist is always the deciding factor. I think you've received some good sound advice here about transposing, not learning with open strings etc. Good luck!

[KevB]

As has been said you'll probably be OK if you play 5 string. As a 4 stringer only I always ask what key bands do stuff in, last band I was in I ended up taking a 2nd bass tuned a whole step down to accomodate the singer for just one song in the entire set! I guess in a real emergency you can play the bassline an entire octave up if the song has been moved to a ridiculously low key, chances are not a single person in the audience would notice the difference! I hate trying to transpose on the fly, I'd rather be pre warned.