Set-up problem - New Strings = Buzz Heaven

[JackLondon]

Hi Chaps,

I seem to have a bit of a problem with my bass at the moment. Basically I've changed the strings about a week ago and because the DR that I use normally were out of stock I've settled for D'Addario which are 30 45 65 80 100 130 gauge as opposed to my usual DR which are 30 45 65 85 105 125 and my bass is Buzz Heaven now, whichever string on any fret and it's buzz all around and most of the notes seem to choke so I was wondering what's wrong with it. I had a look at the neck and it looks perfectly fine ( ie not bowed or anything ) and I haven't changed the height of the saddles or anything so I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do because I have a very important gig on Monday and if it will buzz like that it will be slightly embarrassing

Cheers for any help and advice.

Jack

[Sibob]

I shouldn't think that the minimal changes in your new string gauges would affect the bass that adversely, unless you had/have a particularly dodgy neck!

Problems can also arise if you change strings by taking them all off, then putting the new set on. You should change strings one by one to keep as much tension on the neck as possible!

Without knowing the specific problem, I'd take it to a shop/luthier to be set up properly!

Hope this helps, good luck for your gig!
Si

p.s.
also gonna move this over to Repairs

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Sibob' post='569991' date='Aug 15 2009, 03:32 PM']I shouldn't think that the minimal changes in your new string gauges would affect the bass that adversely, unless you had/have a particularly dodgy neck!

Problems can also arise if you change strings by taking them all off, then putting the new set on. You should change strings one by one to keep as much tension on the neck as possible!

Without knowing the specific problem, I'd take it to a shop/luthier to be set up properly!

Hope this helps, good luck for your gig!
Si

p.s.
also gonna move this over to Repairs [/quote]

Why should problems arise if you remove all of the strings at once?

I do this and have done for the last 30 years with not a single issue... in fact most everyone (inc' reputed builders/luthiers) I know does it that way; it's the only way I know that you can give the fingerboard a clean whilst doing regular services/string changes.

Even though your string gauges are very similar, there 'is' a difference in string tension which can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, this will have caused your set-up change. I would summise that the fact you say that your neck/fingerboard is flat means that you have very little relief in it so the smallest change in tension will require a tweak of the truss rod to get the action sorted and buzz free.

[Protium]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='570062' date='Aug 15 2009, 05:10 PM']Why should problems arise if you remove all of the strings at once?

I do this and have done for the last 30 years with not a single issue... in fact most everyone (inc' reputed builders/luthiers) I know does it that way; it's the only way I know that you can give the fingerboard a clean whilst doing regular services/string changes.

Even though your string gauges are very similar, there 'is' a difference in string tension which can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, this will have caused your set-up change. I would summise that the fact you say that your neck/fingerboard is flat means that you have very little relief in it so the smallest change in tension will require a tweak of the truss rod to get the action sorted and buzz free.[/quote]

+1

[mrcrow]

set the pitch of all the strings correctly
check the settings of the neck and then saddles
then intonation
adjust as necessary
its a strange thing for so much to go at the same time
but the suggestion of differing tensions for similar strings from different manufacturers may be the reason
but i have never had a string change in that smallness of difference that really affected anything except a bit of bow
best of luck
geof

[BB3000S]

+1 to most of what's been said already.

IME, at the same gauge DR strings have more pull than many other brands, especially DR's hexagonal core ones. Did you per chance switch from hexagonal DR's to roundcore D'Addarios? If so, I'd expect buzz on virtually any bass if the pre-switch action was low already.

My guess is a quarter turn's release on the trussrod should do it for you Jack, maybe half a turn. I wouldn't go for more than that without giving the neck time to adjust, preferably to the next day. For most of my basses I usually set the neck to a 1-max2mm gap at the 12th fret when pressing down the first and last frets. That amount of bow allows for pretty low action, and subsequent sensitivity for buzz when switching to lighter gauge and/or lower tension strings.

[b]mrcrow[/b] - that's an excellent got-to-do list when changing strings.

IME, taking all strings off at the same time when cleaning the fretboard or switching strings should really never ever be a cause for concern unless the neck is really dodgy to start with. If you leave a neck without strings for an extended period of time though, it is probably a good idea to decrease the trussrod tension as well.

cheers / Matt

[Sibob]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='570062' date='Aug 15 2009, 05:10 PM']Why should problems arise if you remove all of the strings at once?

I do this and have done for the last 30 years with not a single issue... in fact most everyone (inc' reputed builders/luthiers) I know does it that way; it's the only way I know that you can give the fingerboard a clean whilst doing regular services/string changes.

Even though your string gauges are very similar, there 'is' a difference in string tension which can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, this will have caused your set-up change. I would summise that the fact you say that your neck/fingerboard is flat means that you have very little relief in it so the smallest change in tension will require a tweak of the truss rod to get the action sorted and buzz free.[/quote]

Obviously all people and basses are different
My point was that removing all the strings COULD make the neck relax a lot more than if you change the strings one by one. More stable necks won't be affected as much, but some necks might not like, potentially magnifying the effect of putting slightly different gauge/tension strings back on.

Luthiers probably change strings like that (cutting the strings in half to get them off no doubt lol), because they're usually employed to set the bass up anyway....not just change the strings. If you undertake a full setup after each string change then great! I prefer minimal work when changing strings.

It's all hearsay seeing as we don't know what process the OP went through! I've put different gauge strings on basses before....of similar differences to those mentioned above and not needed to do anything to the neck.

Seemingly what we've ascertained though is that regardless of how you change strings, or if gauges are slightly different, it shouldn't throw a neck out like we're talking about here...."buzzing on most notes"??
Perhaps it is a weak neck, but best to get a pro luthier to look at it!

Si

[JackLondon]

Just to clarify how it all went :

Got new strings and got home,
Took all the old strings off at the same time
Cleaned the fretboard
Put the new strings on starting from C up to B
Tuned up the bass to standard tuning
Left the bass for 24hours on a stand
Got back and it's buzz heaven

And just to explain the buzz in more detail, as this is where it buzzes now :

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
C|---X----|--L---|--X---|--L--|--B--|--X--|--X-|--B-|--L--|-X---|
G|---X----|--L---|--X---|--L--|--B--|--X--|--X-|--L-|--X--|-X---|
D|---L----|--X---|--B---|--B--|--X--|--L--|--X-|--L-|--X--|-L---|
A|---B----|--L---|--L---|--B--|--X--|--L--|--X-|--B-|--X--|-L---|
E|---B----|--L---|--B---|--X--|--L--|--B--|--L-|--L-|--B--|-L---|
B|---B----|--X---|--L---|--L--|--X--|--B--|--B-|--B-|--L--|-B---|


X – No Buzz
L – Little Buzz
B – Buzz Heaven


I think what I'm going to do is play the gig tomorrow somehow, maybe just move the saddles up all the way and have a stupidly high action and take it to the gallery on Tuesday and ask for a set-up, anyone know how much Gallery takes for a proper good set-up ?

Cheers

Edited August 16, 2009 by JackLondon

[warwickhunt]

Why not slacken the truss rod (anti-clockwise) 1/4 of a turn OR (and) take your saddles up 1/2 a turn and see what happens. I'm sure one or both of those operations will sort it, if it is no better then you can consider paying to have it set up.

[mrcrow]

[quote name='JackLondon' post='570604' date='Aug 16 2009, 01:00 PM']Just to clarify how it all went :

Got new strings and got home,
Took all the old strings off at the same time
Cleaned the fretboard
Put the new strings on starting from C up to B
Tuned up the bass to standard tuning
Left the bass for 24hours on a stand
Got back and it's buzz heaven

And just to explain the buzz in more detail, as this is where it buzzes now :

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
C|---X----|--L---|--X---|--L--|--B--|--X--|--X-|--B-|--L--|-X---|
G|---X----|--L---|--X---|--L--|--B--|--X--|--X-|--L-|--X--|-X---|
D|---L----|--X---|--B---|--B--|--X--|--L--|--X-|--L-|--X--|-L---|
A|---B----|--L---|--L---|--B--|--X--|--L--|--X-|--B-|--X--|-L---|
E|---B----|--L---|--B---|--X--|--L--|--B--|--L-|--L-|--B--|-L---|
B|---B----|--X---|--L---|--L--|--X--|--B--|--B-|--B-|--L--|-B---|


X – No Buzz
L – Little Buzz
B – Buzz Heaven


I think what I'm going to do is play the gig tomorrow somehow, maybe just move the saddles up all the way and have a stupidly high action and take it to the gallery on Tuesday and ask for a set-up, anyone know how much Gallery takes for a proper good set-up ?

Cheers[/quote]

you have some in the bow area and some in the action
when adjusting bow it will relieve some in the action section
the strings seem to be lighter so that the neck isnt so bowed etc