Bands using Backing Tracks (MP3)

[Tradfusion]

I think I may have broached this question about a year back, we are still noodling around the idea of filling out our 4 piece (guitar, bass, drums & vocalist) with some backing tracks to cover the sometimes large gaping holes when we attempt to play the more contemporary charty stuff in our set. We want to exclude/edit the tracks to remove bass, drums and lead guitar and basically leave on some rhythm guitar, keyboards and other fiddly bits just to fill out the sound, we have a good vocalist & BV's... I think midi files are almost a thing of the past and its all MP3 these days, any advice on this pleeeeease.... :wacko:

[machinehead]

My own opinion? Get a good keyboard player. He/ she can do brass, strings, sax etc and it keeps it real live music. Piano players are rarely that useful on the keyboard in my experience so don't fall for that one.

Still, it does devide the money more and you might not want that.

Frank.

PS> Coming to Strandhill on 28 August for the weekend. Are you gigging?

[BarnacleBob]

I wouldn't bother - just adapt the songs to suit your sound (really use all lthe vocal talent u have)- or as the man says get a keyboard player

if u just want to try and sound like the original tracks then bump two people and replace them with backing tracks.
I know someone in a duo (bass/kboard and guitarist + self recorded backing tracks) does weddings 750 clams a time!!

If its the music that matters do the former, if its the money do the latter.


BB

[Tradfusion]

Hiya Frank,
We sometimes have a keyboard player but smaller pubs wont pay the 5th person, so the money is the issue... we are probably playing in Strandhill that weekend so might get to meet up for a chat, we have a resident gig in The Strand on a sunday night... I'll send you my mobile number in a PM and you can text me if you are around... The backing track thing is our least favoured option but we'd like to at least try it out before dismissing it. Its how we can do it that I need to find out in the first place!!
Dave



[quote name='machinehead' post='573010' date='Aug 18 2009, 03:17 PM']My own opinion? Get a good keyboard player. He/ she can do brass, strings, sax etc and it keeps it real live music. Piano players are rarely that useful on the keyboard in my experience so don't fall for that one.

Still, it does devide the money more and you might not want that.

Frank.

PS> Coming to Strandhill on 28 August for the weekend. Are you gigging?[/quote]

[yorick]

My old band used backing tracks for keys and harmony backing vocals. Worked well, but you may have to keep in mind we used a click track as well on one channel to keep the drummer in check. If you aint too fussed run them from an ipod type thing, but the more backing tracks you have, you may have to lash out for a multi track recorder, so you can balance levels. As for the actual tracks, get a keyboard player to play any lines....

[Bilbo]

Fmndhisud scchtn th mmmnnth....(he says, biting his tongue....)

[xilddx]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='573120' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:24 PM']Fmndhisud scchtn th mmmnnth....(he says, biting his tongue....)[/quote]

I knew you'd feel that way.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

Many name bands use backing tracks (even Yes!) - I used to be dead against the idea but when you are a tight band then the use of tracks to augment the music is a good thing (we use them in the panto band, drummer has the click and its very tight and it sounds like there's extra musos in there, as opposed to something just stuck on!). Obviously, in an ideal world where budgets don't come into play, then a full band is still the best thing!

[BarnacleBob]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='573137' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:35 PM'].......we use them in the panto band....[/quote]


Panto Band??? Does that mean they're BEHIND YOU?


BB

[Happy Jack]

There's always at least ONE subject that guaranteed to have someone frothing at the mouth.

For me, this is it.

I can put up with any amount of bullshit & cheating in some contexts, but I cannot begin to tell you how much I HATE the use of "backing tracks" by supposedly live acts.

You're live, or you're a fake.

That's about as anal and Black&White as it gets, I realise, but it's how I feel.

If you can't play a song without using a backing track, choose another song.

Oh alright, I'll come quietly officer.

[Noisyjon]

If you do use backing tracks please, please, please, please use WAV files, or something similar, to keep the best quality you can, your audience will appreciate it

[beerdragon]

Our k/board player plays a synth and get Strings, Sax, Trumpet sounds for some songs. i don't know if that's one step away from backing tracks. maybe not.

[Happy Jack]

That's live music, being played by a real musician.

[BarnacleBob]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='573159' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:48 PM']If you can't play a song without using a backing track, choose another song.[/quote]


With you 100% on that one Jacky boy!
Any song worth playing live should be totally acceptable with one instrument (piano /guitar) and one vocal - that is how most are written.
Add bass, drums, extra vocals to it and your onto a weiner!



BB

Edited August 18, 2009 by BarnacleBob

[Tradfusion]

I understand most people are dead against backing tracks, indeed I'm not too keen on the one man band thing with backing tracks myself, we may not ever go for this when we hear what it sounds like, it might be terrible...as for cheating, well all the musicians in the band will be playing their instruments as normal, so the only thing not being played live will be the keyboards in most songs or maybe some loops, bits of brass etc. I just dont think we have a full enough sound with one guitar player trying to cover all the parts and there are definate and noticable gaps in some tunes. The rockier stuff is obviously easier to get away with with the 3 instruments but not so the more involved fuller sounding tunes... A keyboard player is a luxury we cannot afford for alot of the small pub gigs we do, they just wont pay us... Is there someone out there who can tell me they have worked with this, where they got their MP3 or WAV tracks from, and how it is set up for a live gig? If the answer is a definate NOOOOO then so be it, but I am still curious.............

[BarnacleBob]

Good point, mate, you asked for advice in all good faith on how to do something and all we did (almost all of us) was try and talk you out it.

Never had much to do with them so i would be no help on that score - sounds very tricky with click tracks etc and there is no room for error or improvisation.......bloody hell there i go again..Sorry, Sorry..


Best of luck whatever you do


BB

Edited August 18, 2009 by BarnacleBob

[Happy Jack]

I have NO IDEA why I am telling you this, but go to [url="http://www.mp3audioeditor.com/"]http://www.mp3audioeditor.com/[/url] and download their basic product.

It will do everything you need plus a lot more - very cool piece of software.

And may God have mercy on you.

[jmstone]

[quote name='Tradfusion' post='573229' date='Aug 18 2009, 05:34 PM']I understand most people are dead against backing tracks, indeed I'm not too keen on the one man band thing with backing tracks myself, we may not ever go for this when we hear what it sounds like, it might be terrible...as for cheating, well all the musicians in the band will be playing their instruments as normal, so the only thing not being played live will be the keyboards in most songs or maybe some loops, bits of brass etc. I just dont think we have a full enough sound with one guitar player trying to cover all the parts and there are definate and noticable gaps in some tunes. The rockier stuff is obviously easier to get away with with the 3 instruments but not so the more involved fuller sounding tunes... A keyboard player is a luxury we cannot afford for alot of the small pub gigs we do, they just wont pay us... Is there someone out there who can tell me they have worked with this, where they got their MP3 or WAV tracks from, and how it is set up for a live gig? If the answer is a definate NOOOOO then so be it, but I am still curious............. [/quote]

Never done it myself, and it's not the sort of thing I would want to do, but it seems to me the easiest way would be to record your keyboard player playing their usual parts (with a click track to keep time) and then to use an ipod or something similar plugged into the board (maybe thru a DI box on stage so you can control it yourselves instead of relying on the engineer). There are also keyboards where you can record whole tracks, which you can trigger with the press of a button.. but IMHO it would look very tacky.

But then why not just get rid of the whole band and make it karaoke!!

[jmstone]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='573276' date='Aug 18 2009, 06:04 PM']I have NO IDEA why I am telling you this, but go to [url="http://www.mp3audioeditor.com/"]http://www.mp3audioeditor.com/[/url] and download their basic product.

It will do everything you need plus a lot more - very cool piece of software.

And may God have mercy on you.

[/quote]

Presumably you can't use that to remove drums/bass/vocals from a commercial track tho (sounds impossible to me)??

[YouMa]

Milli Vanilli?

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='jmstone' post='573285' date='Aug 18 2009, 06:12 PM']Presumably you can't use that to remove drums/bass/vocals from a commercial track tho (sounds impossible to me)??[/quote]

No - AFAIK you're right. What you can do though is take any sort of recording (commercial CD or handheld recorder at a rehearsal, for example), use it any mainstream format (wav, wma, mp3, etc), edit & mix, add effects, blah blah blah.

You can do more if you go to [url="http://www.ronimusic.com/"]http://www.ronimusic.com/[/url] and download [i][b]The Amazing Slow Downer [/b][/i]- another really excellent piece of software. The built-in EQ will allow you to focus on the part you're trying to ... ahem ... utilise.

[BigRedX]

I've been in bands using backing tracks for a good deal of my gigging life and have given out advice about creating and using backing tracks a couple of times in the past. The main thing I would say is that there is no magical shortcut to using backing tracks and sounding good. Here's a list of things you need to consider.

1. How are you going to produce them? I've done all mine in my studio where I have a good DAW app and plenty of high quality sound sources (the last thing you want a cheesey sounds especially if you're emulating real instruments). You need the time and the talent to be able to create them as well as the hardware to do it on.

2. How are you going to play them back? Keep it simple then it's less likely to go wrong. Remember also you'll need to supply all the required cables etc. to interface with the PA.

3. How are you going to keep in time with it. You'll need a click track for your drummer and some way for him/her to be able to hear it with out the audience hearing it too. Can your drummer play in time when they are no longer setting the tempo? You'll be surprised how many can't. Remember also you'll need some way of keeping in time when the drummer isn't playing (intros, breakdowns etc.) Don't rely on being able to play to what you can hear of the track in the monitors. You won't.

4. Creating are organising the use of backing tracks should be the responsibility of someone in the band. It won't be workable otherwise. You'll need a whole load of extra musical equipment to create them and at least an iPod, DI boxes and headphone amp plus all the leads and spares in order to play it back at a gig. If getting a keyboard player is impractical, then TBH you're better off not bothering with backing tracks, because it will probably be even more hassle.

[xilddx]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='573137' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:35 PM']Many name bands use backing tracks (even Yes!) - I used to be dead against the idea but when you are a tight band then the use of tracks to augment the music is a good thing (we use them in the panto band, drummer has the click and its very tight and it sounds like there's extra musos in there, as opposed to something just stuck on!). Obviously, in an ideal world where budgets don't come into play, then a full band is still the best thing![/quote]

The people I play with have no choice if they want to recreate their back catalogue. They traveled around Africa, India, eastern Europe recording people singing and playing and paid them royalties when it was possible to ensure they get the money, even hired them to play live if they were touring those countries. These samples ended up on their albums over the last decade. Backing tracks are essential live, the sounds are so signature that no-one could recreate them. The live band are all amazing musicians, classically trained but playing global fusion dance music. Sometimes it's not as simple as putting a jazz band together with a bunch of backing singers and a big string section rather than use the "horror" of backing tracks.

[ironside1966]

The great thing about this forum is its diversity and collective knowledge so why is it the every time that someone mentions backing tracks you always get, I am a real musician and real musicians would not play with backing tracks because it is cheating crap?
Let’s keep this informative and may be it will help out a lot of people.

Edited August 19, 2009 by ironside1966

[Tradfusion]

Thanks everyone, I know peoples opinions on this thorny subject differs drastically!! I know recording your own tracks is probably the best way to do it, but what about downloading from here: [url="http://www.karaoke-version.com/custombackingtrack/"]http://www.karaoke-version.com/custombackingtrack/[/url] .... what do you guys think of that idea? you can edit the tracks as you like and they are MP3 quality ... then set up all the click track, headphone amp mumbo jumbo etc and a decent MP3 player... its certainly not the same as having real musicians but when we are trying to scrape a living from low paying pub gigs and if this actually worked... I know one thing, if it sounds really bad and we feel like its too much of a bluff job then it will be canned tout suite! What else would we need to make this work ie cables, leads etc..many thanks.. Dave
:blush: