"Proper" right hand technique

[timmyo]

This came up a couple of times when I asked about what people would do differently as a beginner. So what IS 'proper' right hand technique ? Simply using alternate fingers, or is there more too it than that ?

[Super_Mario_Bass]

Jamerson just used one.

I really dont think there is a proper technique, though its good to have a few in your arsenal.

the three fingers is good for that iron maiden galloping sound.

=D

[G MAjor]

[quote name='timmyo' post='61739' date='Sep 17 2007, 04:02 PM']This came up a couple of times when I asked about what people would do differently as a beginner. So what IS 'proper' right hand technique ? Simply using alternate fingers, or is there more too it than that ?[/quote]
is victor wootens right hand tech. proper? make your own tech's .. it's all open to modification! do whatever you want! use a bow' play the bass without your right hand' jam and enjoy. tony levin played a couple of tunes with sticks taped to his fingers, there is no right or wrong way to attack your bass, or finger it or thumb it or whatever..

[timmyo]

I'm not so naive as to believe there's only one right way (hence the punctuation around 'proper' above) but it just struck me as something that more than one person took the time to comment on, so I wondered what they might be driving at.

[odub]

My tutor (who comes on this board) has me muting the strings with my thumb, and moving my whole hand going up and down the strings, so not placing any fingers on the pcikups or owlt. Kinda floating.

It feels pretty good, and the muting is taken care of without thinking. Using strict finger alternation as well, to the distance from finger to plucking sting is always the same. I guess thats all very Jazz, prog, metal. Clean and fast.

[Mikey D]

I suppose what is seen as the 'proper' technique would be M-I fingers in strict alteration. However, you should never limit yourself as you may be better off playing some parts different, possibly incorporating raking. Example: I learnt to play with MI with my thumb floating a string behind to mute, but you can also anchor your thumb on the pickup or E string. I also use my little finger to mute to get a different tone when playing with two fingers, it's a little awkward at times, but I like the sound. Then I learnt a bit of the billy sheehan and gary willis three finger style as I found I could play faster and smoother. As said above, Jamerson used one. For playing reggae, I used my thumb and mute the strings with the side of the palm, like many others including Marcus Miller. I also use T-I-M or T-I-M-R fingers quite a lot now as I can string cross and play lines that would be almost impossible with two alternating fingers.

Just whatever technique you use, make sure it is secure and comfortable. If you find you can't execute things, then you need to start looking in detail why. However I don't advocate sitting and doing boring right hand only exercises. Your technique should be learnt and fed from the music you are playing. Slow, deliberate practice on the music you find hard to execute will give greater rewards in technique than doing finger drills.

There is so much you can do with your right hand, and a lot of people neglect this as part of their playing. So when I learn something, I try playing with lots of different right hand techniques to see the difference each bring, but at the start you should just use one and get it working well.

[Rumble]

[quote name='odub' post='61921' date='Sep 17 2007, 09:37 PM']My tutor (who comes on this board) has me muting the strings with my thumb, and moving my whole hand going up and down the strings, so not placing any fingers on the pcikups or owlt. Kinda floating.

It feels pretty good, and the muting is taken care of without thinking. Using strict finger alternation as well, to the distance from finger to plucking sting is always the same. I guess thats all very Jazz, prog, metal. Clean and fast.[/quote]

I was one of those who said I'd probably focus more on right-hand technique if starting again from scratch. I think the perceived 'proper' was has been probably the common way, which is to anchor the right thumb on the PU or lowest string (E, B or F#). But when I started playing the natural thing for me to do was what odub's tutor's getting him (or her!) to do, in muting the lowest string not being played with my thumb. This is great for muting, but can be a bit restrictive when doing a descending run. I struggle to do any different now.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='62007' date='Sep 18 2007, 02:32 AM']I suppose what is seen as the 'proper' technique would be M-I fingers in strict alteration. However, you should never limit yourself as you may be better off playing some parts different, possibly incorporating raking. Example: I learnt to play with MI with my thumb floating a string behind to mute, but you can also anchor your thumb on the pickup or E string. I also use my little finger to mute to get a different tone when playing with two fingers, it's a little awkward at times, but I like the sound. Then I learnt a bit of the billy sheehan and gary willis three finger style as I found I could play faster and smoother. As said above, Jamerson used one. For playing reggae, I used my thumb and mute the strings with the side of the palm, like many others including Marcus Miller. I also use T-I-M or T-I-M-R fingers quite a lot now as I can string cross and play lines that would be almost impossible with two alternating fingers.

Just whatever technique you use, make sure it is secure and comfortable. If you find you can't execute things, then you need to start looking in detail why. However I don't advocate sitting and doing boring right hand only exercises. Your technique should be learnt and fed from the music you are playing. Slow, deliberate practice on the music you find hard to execute will give greater rewards in technique than doing finger drills.

There is so much you can do with your right hand, and a lot of people neglect this as part of their playing. So when I learn something, I try playing with lots of different right hand techniques to see the difference each bring, but at the start you should just use one and get it working well.[/quote]

Excellent advice as ever.

[neilb]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='62007' date='Sep 18 2007, 02:32 AM']There is so much you can do with your right hand,[/quote]

Excellent advice as ever!

[Mikey D]

haha

[Maark]

So how would you go about muting a note on the A string, say the music says x 7 x 8 on a tab sheet? Something that I'm kind of trying to figure out at the moomin.

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='Maark' post='64485' date='Sep 23 2007, 08:46 PM']So how would you go about muting a note on the A string, say the music says x 7 x 8 on a tab sheet? Something that I'm kind of trying to figure out at the moomin.[/quote]

use your left hand as well. You should have a spare finger tip to mute with...

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='Super_Mario_Bass' post='61848' date='Sep 17 2007, 07:21 PM']Jamerson just used one.

I really dont think there is a proper technique, though its good to have a few in your arsenal.

the three fingers is good for that iron maiden galloping sound.

=D[/quote]

Jamerson is Jamerson...

I think you'll find the Steve Harris galloping sound is done with two fingers...

[url="http://www.bassplayer.com/article/command-performance/Sep-06/23348"]http://www.bassplayer.com/article/command-...ce/Sep-06/23348[/url]

[quote]Explain your right-hand technique.

I play with two fingers, except when I want to play a chord; then I splay out all of my right-hand fingers like a fan. I find myself doing more chordal playing these days. I like the heaviness of it.[/quote]

[Maark]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='64498' date='Sep 23 2007, 09:34 PM']use your left hand as well. You should have a spare finger tip to mute with...[/quote]

Ah, cheers mate, I'll start working on that as well sometime. =]

[Bilbo]

Gary Willis's right hand technique is a whole other science. His video (Progressive Bassics) is a revelation although his technique is SOOOO specific, it is not easily embraced by people who are established two finger players.

Alternate fingering is a simplistic idea as the change/skipping of strings requires you to lead with a different finger depending on the line you are playing. It is a case of experimenting with whatever resutls in a clear and confidently played note with a good tone (not much is written about the relationship between finger technique and tone on electric bass - on double bass it is known to all but define your sound but, on electric, it is less well reported how deep its contribution is to your fundamental tone.

(Actually, much as I respect and admire Willis, I don't like his tone - too 'processed')

Edited November 26, 2007 by bilbo230763

[iamthewalrus]

I've gone back to having lessons again & I hadn't realised how bad my right hand playing technique was. I thought I was using alternate picking, but it turns out I've developed a habit of raking quite a bit.

I've now had to start concentrating more on that aspect of my playing as I hadn't realised I'd been doing it for the last 22 years .

From all the posts on the forums I've visited, the camp appears to be split between anchoring on a pickup (which is quite difficult on a 5 string as there needs to be some right hand muting) & the floating thumb technique.

I've tried the Gary Willis technique - great player, but not really for an old fart like me....

Cheers,
iamthewalrus.

[Count Bassy]

I've developed a wierd technique where I tend to use the thumb and first three fingers on the E,A,D & G strings respectively, and tend to rest each finger on its string when I'm not playing it. This has the advantage that when you've plucked a string you can drop the finger straight back onto it to kill it dead, allowing a very crisp, quite percussive sound. It also means that you can play, say, E string, G string, E string etc very quickly.

When I need some very quick notes I'll drop two, or three fingers onto the same string, and have even used the little finger on occassion, although that is still relatively weak. I also will drop the little finger onto a string near the bridge while plucking it with another to get a very muted 'Plop' sort of sound.

One downside is that your playing each string at a different position, so there may be more than normal tonal variation across the strings.

I had no lessons when I started, and had previously played a squeeze box thing (Melodeon), so using all the fingers available just seemed natural.

I'm not claimimg it as a good technique (I've not come across anyone else using it, so that must say something), but it works for me at the moment, and I thought it might add to the discussion.

Clive

[The Funk]

My right hand technique is awful and holding me back as a player. I'm in the process of unlearning and relearning it.

A useful page of info: [url="http://www.warwickbass.com/basssurvival101/lesson_9fingers.htm"]http://www.warwickbass.com/basssurvival101...on_9fingers.htm[/url]

[OldGit]

This explains Floating Thumb pretty well. I think lots of "5 and up" players use it rather than pickup or bottom string anchoring.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU[/url]

I'm in the process of learning floating thumb as well as alternating finger technique after many years of using a technique I call "making it up as I go along" .. I can't say I've noticed a huge improvement yet but I see it as foundation building for better playing. Never too late but it is pretty hard to undo muscle memory.

Starting out I'd certainly make sure I nailed these two techniques early on.

As it says on the Warwick linked above:

"Q: You are teaching us a two-finger technique, where you always alternate fingers. Yet, I see many famous players who use one finger, or they don't always alternate. Which way is right?
A: There really is no "right" way. Some amazing bassists play perfectly well using a wide variety of techniques. I am reminded about a conversation I had with a known player who had a rather erratic right hand style. I asked him if he thought his technique was the best way. He said, "No way! It took me over 20 years to get to where I could play quickly and smoothly. [b]Kids that learn the right way to do it can get there in a matter of months." [/b]That really gave me food for thought. "

I think that's the point ..

[mcgraham]

Three years ago when I got involved in the gospel choir, I wanted to play fast. you know *crazy* fast, like 16ths at 120bpm fast didn't use a metronome, but didn't do too badly either. That was my top speed

Two years ago I decided I was going to learn the TIMR/PIMA 4 digit technique popularised by Matt Garrison and the like. That sent my technique through the roof because in a matter of months I was hitting speeds of 16ths at 180-200bpm and using string crossing rather than just one string. Staccato lines galore, chords, comping, the works.

One year ago I was getting fed up with it because it doesn't have a great method of muting if it's your primary playing technique, try improvising one note per string lines and skipping without a good muting technique, you will struggle. I decided to go back to two finger, including floating thumb and straight wrists, to see if that would help. Used Hanon piano exercises as recommended by a certain Mr Gwizdala. Worked wonders. Particularly because I'd been used to playing such fast lines before, I knew that my left hand and my right hand were up to it. Mindset is a powerful thing. Now the technique is above 16ths at 200bpm, string crossing, staccato lines, arpeggios. Yes it can be tiring and you fatigue quicker than using all 4 digits but it is clean and wonderful...

Now there are still two questions that crop up for me, how curved should my fingers be i.e. compare Manring and Willis, and should i alternate plucks whether ascending or descending, i.e. compare Nitti and Willis (I don't idolise Willis at all, I'm using him as a good technique example).

In all honesty, I completely agree that it is easier to be consistent in timing using strict alternation, that much is clear from the impeccable timing I get from the Garrison technique. Also you get a much stronger attack with more curved fingers than less. However, I can play in a much more relaxed and consistent manner when my fingers and much less curved than Willis, and the timing isn't such an issue, I actually prefer the sound and feel of raking. And it certainly hasn't impeded my progress.

In short (as I realise this is a long post), there's certainly wrong ways to play but there's a grey area of right ways. I've tried a few regions in that grey area and found one that I can play for long periods of time and feel comfortable with and play virtually anything I can think of or be asked to play or hear. I don't think that clears anything up but there's certainly some food for thought there.

Mark

[The Funk]

A problem I have is that my right shoulder is completely f*cked from an old rugby injury, which means I can't really keep the elbow up for more than a few seconds. An annoying fact is that I actually started out playing a kind of floating thumb technique - which I gave up when I was taught to anchor my thumb!

[mcgraham]

Funk, I don't have an injury but I do appreciate your situation. I used to wear my bass high for a good while but when I attempted to reset all my habits I practiced primarily in seated classical guitar pose. And now, I look at most every bass player and wonder how they can handle having their left arm virtually parallel to the floor in order to reach the 1st fret and how they can tolerate having an acute angle in their right arm at the elbow, cocked wrist or not.

I'll try and get someone to take a picture of how I wear my bass, there is a way to wear it without having to keep either arm completely raised.

Mark

[chris_b]

I don't believe there is a "proper" technique. There are "bad" practices but in my opinion it all comes down to what you want to play and where do you want to go with your playing.
Following the conventional wisdom of the time, Jameson’s technique was not at all proper but that didn't stop him becoming an icon; Larry Graham’s technique was all wrong but it opened the door to the world of slap; double bass technique is wrong if you want to play electric bass, and vice versa; what is right for Adam Nitti is not right for Stax, Oasis or Queen; do you want to be a "feel" player or a technician?
And all of the above are wrong if you want to study classical bass.
You make your choice..........

[mcgraham]

I think we can both agree that there is no 'one' perfect technique, that there is as I like to call it, a grey area of good techniques, however I would take issue with someone who says do what feels comfortable. Not because that statement is immediately wrong, but because people who advocate that advice stick with what they feel is [u]initially[/u] comfortable, and that then leads to problems further down the road. We need to constantly assess what is and isn't comfortable.

I'm not a classical musician at all, but from a purely medical perspective there are downright dangerous ways that some people choose to play an instrument. We as people playing more modern contemporary instruments, we shouldn't be so quick to ignore several hundred years of development in classical technique on instruments, to do so is...well...ignorant? Don't get me wrong, I think that there are still potentially some errors in classical technique, but we should take our technique and musical development seriously, learn holistically from what is out there in order to make the best decision, and even then be willing to re-evaluate our stance as we develop.

Mark

[The Funk]

I think the point is that there isn't one "correct" technique for everyone but that each individual can probably find the optimal technique for them among the various ones out there or, failing that, create a new one.

Edited November 30, 2007 by The Funk