Modern Basses - Vintage Tone

[paul, the]

Hi there,

I was just thinking, aside from reissues, classics and semi-acoustics -

What modern basses are designed to have a vintage tone?


Cheers,

Paul.

[acidbass]

Good question -

I suppose the Burns Bison?

[paul, the]

How about the Dark Star equipped Laklands?



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Or do any basses use lipstick pickups besides Danos?

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You'd think with all the British Invasion throw-back Indie bands there would be more of an outspoken demand for vintage sounding instruments. And due to their inherent deviant nature you'd have thought they'd be tired of Rics.

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Burns are a classic aren't they?

Edited May 23, 2007 by paul, the

[BigRedX]

[quote name='paul, the' post='4904' date='May 23 2007, 02:56 AM']Or do any basses use lipstick pickups besides Danos?[/quote]

[url="http://www.gusguitars.com/product.php?model_id=6"]Gus[/url] - you don't get much more modern than that!

[john_the_bass]

didn't charvel put a lipstick pickup on the surfcaster style stuff?

[bass_ferret]

Lakland Jerry Scheff also had lipsticks. Many of the Lakland sigs are based on vintage instruments like the two pot Jazzes.

[paul, the]

Or Humbuckers?

Any modern basses using EB-0/EB-3, Ric pups?

[Guest]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='4952' date='May 23 2007, 08:47 AM']didn't charvel put a lipstick pickup on the surfcaster style stuff?[/quote]

The surfcasters did indeed have two lipsticks but they were only produced until around 89-90, not sure if that counts as modern. Tonally they do have a retro sound, warm and friendly. Mine ( my second) now has a Darkstar in the neck + a HAS sound varitone. Which brings me neatly onto the Lakland Decade, it's got a retro body shape and a pair of darkstars so ticks all the retro boxes, unless you have played a bass with darkstars.
They can do the retro tone with the right EQ but a lot more, they have massive output both in terms of volume and tonal range and are very far from being a one trick pony. Check out the darkstar forum over on the dudepit for more including sound clips. I think the reason they are perceived as a vintage pickup is due to looks, I believe Fred is working on a version with more modern looking plastic surrounds which may bring them to a wider audience.
Kent Armstrongs lipsticks are a more of a tribute to vintage lipsticks pickups, they have higher output and are much punchier, they do have that 'smoothness' but are more similar to a standard jazz pickup. I had a pair in my Jaguar and it could ( unlike me) sound good slapped.
If you really want a modern bass with vintage tone it's got to be a passive p or j fender really.

Edited May 26, 2007 by steve-norris

[paul, the]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='6095' date='May 24 2007, 10:24 PM']The surfcasters did indeed have two lipsticks but they were only produced until around 89-90, not sure if that counts as modern. Tonally they do have a retro sound, warm and friendly. Mine ( my second) now has a Darkstar in the bridge + a HAS sound varitone. Which brings me neatly onto the Lakland Decade, it's got a retro body shape and a pair of darkstars so ticks all the retro boxes, unless you have played a bass with darkstars.
They can do the retro tone with the right EQ but a lot more, they have massive output both in terms of volume and tonal range and are very far from being a one trick pony. Check out the darkstar forum over on the dudepit for more including sound clips. I think the reason they are perceived as a vintage pickup is due to looks, I believe Fred is working on a version with more modern looking plastic surrounds which may bring them to a wider audience.
Kent Armstrongs lipsticks are a more of a tribute to vintage lipsticks pickups, they have higher output and are much punchier, they do have that 'smoothness' but are more similar to a standard jazz pickup. I had a pair in my Jaguar and it could ( unlike me) sound good slapped.
If you really want a modern bass with vintage tone it's got to be a passive p or j fender really.[/quote]


Sure 89-90 is modern, anything post '79 I guess I class as modern.

I perceive darkstars as vintage because they were described as bing so on the Lakland site. I'm sure Jefferson Airplane were mentioned. I imagine them looking and sounding great with nylon strings and being a modern humbucker - have I been deceived?

[quote name='steve-norris' post='6095' date='May 24 2007, 10:24 PM']If you really want a modern bass with vintage tone it's got to be a passive p or j fender really.[/quote]

I'm not looking for a bass, I'm just curious and would be astonished if that is true.

I'll try and find those sound clips and give them a listen.

[Guest]

[quote name='paul, the' post='6238' date='May 25 2007, 02:41 AM']Sure 89-90 is modern, anything post '79 I guess I class as modern.

I perceive darkstars as vintage because they were described as bing so on the Lakland site. I'm sure Jefferson Airplane were mentioned. I imagine them looking and sounding great with nylon strings and being a modern humbucker - have I been deceived?
I'm not looking for a bass, I'm just curious and would be astonished if that is true.

I'll try and find those sound clips and give them a listen.[/quote]

Well they are based on a vintage design ( Hagstrom bi-sonics as used on the Guild starfire and M85) but they sound far from retro, have a listen here [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=papi84CXQ5U"]jefferson airplane[/url]
also they may look like humbuckers but are in fact single coils with large magnets, the 'other poles' are in fact pole piece adjusters

(wait untill the 2 min mark for the solo)

[url="http://www.basspickup.com"]Darkstar pickups website[/url]

[paul, the]

[quote name='steve-norris' post='6336' date='May 25 2007, 10:53 AM']Well they are based on a vintage design ( Hagstrom bi-sonics as used on the Guild starfire and M85) but they sound far from retro, have a listen here [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=papi84CXQ5U"]jefferson airplane[/url]
also they may look like humbuckers but are in fact single coils with large magnets, the 'other poles' are in fact pole piece adjusters

(wait untill the 2 min mark for the solo)

[url="http://www.basspickup.com"]Darkstar pickups website[/url][/quote]

I think I see what you mean. That sounded like a modern bass with effects with a bit of vintage woody semi-acousticness thrown in, despite being 1970 - must have been very interesting at the time.

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So what's the difference between vintage pickups like on Fender RI and modern one. I can see this going into why pickups sound different from each other - which I would like to know.

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I'd still like to hear other vintage ideas, if there are any.

paul.

Edited May 25, 2007 by paul, the

[NAS]

I'm not a great expert on vintage tones having never owned an original period Fender with all original parts (had a P Bass circa '68 with non Fender replacement neck), but I think the Status vintage range, of which I have this exemplar:

make some good quasi vintage tones. Lots of pickup combinations available. These ones are passive humbucking so probably a bit "tame" by vintage standards, but the tone is more lively and less middy than lots of modern basses. Nick S

[bassjamm]

Having had a day jammin with Geoffbassit...we've both agreed that my F Bass, whilst being a very modern instrument, is totally kickass in the vintage department, they really nail the whole fingerstyle funk jazz sound!!!

[paul, the]

[quote name='NAS' post='6734' date='May 25 2007, 07:11 PM']I'm not a great expert on vintage tones having never owned an original period Fender with all original parts (had a P Bass circa '68 with non Fender replacement neck), but I think the Status vintage range, of which I have this exemplar:

make some good quasi vintage tones. Lots of pickup combinations available. These ones are passive humbucking so probably a bit "tame" by vintage standards, but the tone is more lively and less middy than lots of modern basses. Nick S[/quote]

Very nice! I have a p/j bass, it makes me happier by the day.


I know nothing of Status, did it cost a small fortune?


paul.

Edited May 26, 2007 by paul, the

[Guest]

The other thing to consider if your looking for a vintage type of tone is strings and amps, flat wounds were used extensively as were amps such as the ampeg b-15 ( 15" speaker and all valve), the other thing which was a lot more common was shorter scale bases, but im not sure how much this added to the sound compared to other factors.

[elros]

If you're after vintage [u]tone[/u], a modern bass with a properly fitted GK pickup and a Roland V-Bass will do. I know because I use such a system myself. (although I don't have [u]extensive[/u] experience with real vintage instruments.) I quite often use the vintage P model for the occations when that sound is fitting, which is quite often, actually. It also does the Rickenbacker sound, which I like, and vintage Jazz and Hofner, which I don't use all that often, being partial to the more rock-oriented tones.

Perhaps sometime this summer, some afternoon when the weather is bad and I've nothing to do, I'll record some sound samples of these V-Bass models and post them on my web page..... so you can judge for yourself, eh?

Edited May 26, 2007 by elros

[NAS]

[quote name='paul, the' post='6972' date='May 26 2007, 02:47 AM']Very nice! I have a p/j bass, it makes me happier by the day.
I know nothing of Status, did it cost a small fortune?
paul.[/quote]

Hi Paul, yes it was quite a bit (near £1500) so I suppose only readily available to those with city style bonuses to blow! Still, those real vintage Fenders seem to require several mortgages. I just happen to have a thing about those graphite necks and love the way they play. The fact that players like Guy Pratt and Pino Palladino have been persuaded to promote these models indicates that Rob Green has got something right.

If you'd like to explore Statuses (or Statii) there is the Status forum at [url="http://www.statii.com/forum/news.php"]http://www.statii.com/forum/news.php[/url] and the Status Graphite site at [url="http://www.status-graphite.com/status/carts3/frames/frame1.htm"]http://www.status-graphite.com/status/cart...ames/frame1.htm[/url] which besides being commercial is also very informative.

Steve's point about strings and amps is also well made, and of course many of those classic tracks were played with a pick. I'm sure there a several amp and bass sound modellers which do a good job, but I suspect that you like the bass itself to produce the right "core" sound.

If cost is a real issue, some say that a decent copy of the originals, e.g. the Squier basses, do produce a useable sound and are made remarkably well for the price. I was astounded when a friend got a new Squier PBass how good it was to play. The main thing to watch with these would be the variability between individual examples. Means you would need to try out several examples to find one that seems good.

If you do find a good option do post and let us know.
Nick S

[chris_b]

Several years ago Bass Player magazine compared the pickups on a highly rated early 60's Jazz Bass which had spent it's whole life in a Nashville studio, pumping out hits, with Lindy Fralin JJ vintage replacemants. The Fralins won! If I was going vintage I would start by checking these out.

[paul, the]

Wow, some really great and informative posts.


I wasn't on planning on changing any of my equipment, I just wanted to throw around some ideas for myself and others to learn from.

But this thread has been quite successful so I might consider a mix around.

To be very upfront and non-conservative; I've been very lucky with some of my previous purchases and I have made about £550 net profit from two previous bassy purchases. I think all my gear is worth around £1400, probably a bit less. But I have no reference as to how much my '70s Kustom Charger would fetch, or if I'd be willing to part with it - I've never seen another in England and the speaker's slightly buggered.

I did see a 50th anniversary '60s RI jazz in vintage white and tortoiseshell that I slightly regret not buying on Ebay.

But if I'm serious about having a mix around for tonal benefit then it would; A, have to sound brilliant and B, have some investment potential (obviously hard to judge, please don't slay me on this)

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=770&hl="]Vintage basses of tomorrow thread[/url]

I'm also not gigging, so that could be taken advantage of - I'd love an irresistible, dream tone to entice me to practice hard.


Cheers guys,

paul.

[paul, the]

I knew that wouldn't go down well, I've tried it before.

[quote name='chris_b' post='7104' date='May 26 2007, 12:49 PM']Several years ago Bass Player magazine compared the pickups on a highly rated early 60's Jazz Bass which had spent it's whole life in a Nashville studio, pumping out hits, with Lindy Fralin JJ vintage replacemants. The Fralins won! If I was going vintage I would start by checking these out.[/quote]


Wow, now that's interesting, were they aiming for a vintage tone? do you know if any basses stock them as standard?

I'll look into those.

Edited May 26, 2007 by paul, the

[chris_b]

[quote name='paul, the' post='7344' date='May 26 2007, 09:54 PM']Wow, now that's interesting, were they aiming for a vintage tone? do you know if any basses stock them as standard?

I'll look into those.[/quote]

You could try Chandlers at Kew. They used to stock Lindy Fralin pickups.

[paul, the]

Ah! the Laklands do! As previously mentioned by bass ferret, which I foolishly overlooked.

They're Fender rips so they're not ideal for the thread. But they're modern, with a vintage tone.


I may open a new thread for this after some more research, but does anyone know:

The weight and used prices for; Joe Osborn Skylines and Bob Glaub US ??


Cheers,

Paul.