Original Steinberger basses vs Spirit

[RichMcGill]

Hi there, I've always dreamed of owning & playing one of the original Steinberger stick-like basses with active electrics and non-wood construction. I've got a Spirit which hits every spot for me, except it's passive and not one of my dream basses. Love the tone and don't feel I miss the active side of things. I've started to look around a bit at the original and got horrified. They've got some great big plastic-looking lump(s) on the back? Why? My Spirit balances very well with the strap (and easily caters for lefties), and has a really cute prong that hinges down for when sat down, so what's the point of plastic lumps? Lot's of the old Steinbergers seem to have great chunks out of the body from the non-wood construction. What were they made of and is itr really fragile? Anyone out there like to persuade me that the old original Steinbergers are better than Spirit? Why?

[The Burpster]

1. the big 'wing on the back was in place of the top forearm so that you could fold it out and attatch a strap for playing stood up.

2. They were made of resin/carbon weave entirely.

3. the carbon and resin can indeed chunk but like any bass if its not in vital area it wont affect its playablilty (and IMO is way easier to patch up than trying to match paint and lift dents out of wood!)

4. Is any vintage instrument worth it.....? the electrics are way old skool and they are heavy..... but again IMO they have a unique and killer 80s tone and were and still are, a complete breath of fresh air.

5. comparing the original XL-2 to a spirit is like comparing a showjumper to donkey.... the spirit is a wood copy just like the Hohner; wood is nothing like carbon......

Have you looked at the Synapse bass....? This is a Ned evolution of the original XL-2 and to me is the best of both worlds (wood and composite) and has up to date electrics........

BTW - I love 'em (not got 'round to buying one yet, but its only a matter of time!)

[Pete Academy]

I have a 1983 L2. I'm thinking about selling it.

[RichMcGill]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='587115' date='Sep 2 2009, 07:38 AM']1. the big 'wing on the back was in place of the top forearm so that you could fold it out and attatch a strap for playing stood up.

2. They were made of resin/carbon weave entirely.

3. the carbon and resin can indeed chunk but like any bass if its not in vital area it wont affect its playablilty (and IMO is way easier to patch up than trying to match paint and lift dents out of wood!)

4. Is any vintage instrument worth it.....? the electrics are way old skool and they are heavy..... but again IMO they have a unique and killer 80s tone and were and still are, a complete breath of fresh air.

5. comparing the original XL-2 to a spirit is like comparing a showjumper to donkey.... the spirit is a wood copy just like the Hohner; wood is nothing like carbon......

Have you looked at the Synapse bass....? This is a Ned evolution of the original XL-2 and to me is the best of both worlds (wood and composite) and has up to date electrics........

BTW - I love 'em (not got 'round to buying one yet, but its only a matter of time!)[/quote]

Good reply and some good points here. I've never touched an XL-2 or any other original Steinberger, so we've got a lot of ignorance here. It looks to me as though XL-2 is a period piece? Expensive, fragile, heavy but with a good sound & presumably plays well.

A showjumper to a donkey? I can see XL-2 has a lot more pedigree and is worth a lot more from the point of view of original price, current and long-term value. I suppose a donkey has worth and can do a good day's work, but a donkey is also slow & sluggish which I do not see in the Spirit.

A lot of the points here are about the material used. What does composite bring that's good? I notice that you rate Synapse which uses both composite and wood.

Trivially, the thing that really puzzles me is the need for "extra sticking out bits" in both XL-2 and Synapse which jar with my sense of good design. Spirit doesn't need such things and, to my mind, the design should meet the needs.

I've nearly stopped dreaming of one day changing my Spirit for XL-2. Synapse looks bigger? Small is a good design feature here, in my view, and to be valued. Spirit in original soft gig back fits into many places other basses couldn't begin to consider.

Looking forward to the day I get to actually experience XL-2, perhaps it'll all make sense then!!

[MattM]

As someone who's owned a Hohner B2 (same factory as a Spirit) and now own an XL2 courtesy of SilentFly (thanks again Max if you're reading...still loving it ) I'm fairly well qualified to comment.

The construction of the XL2 makes a huge difference to sustain and resonance, even acoustically. Also huge advantages in terms of stability - I had to do truss rod tweaks on a monthly basis with the Hohner, have had the XL2 nearly a year and no adjustment necessary - still has a great set-up. Did someone mention fragile? Any idea of how much stronger carbon graphite composite is over wood? Yes you could chip the outer gel coat, however you will never damage the body or neck of the XL2 without driving a tank over it...literally.

The wing bit (pivot plate pur-lease!)at the back is a good bit of design - there is an improved 'boomerang' version about, but this works well. The pivot is bang in the centre of gravity, its contoured so fits well with your body and also pivots so you don't have to move the whole strap/body in one go - strap stays statiic on your shoulder, probably a big USP with 80's shoulder pad wearers. The standard strap set-up on the Spirit/Hohner makes it very neck heavy in comparison - trust me.

Not mentioning the two EMG pickups which sound great - superb for dub, reggae or anything vaguely hi-fi/80s ish. The EMG Selects while decent, aint a patch on the originals.

So in summary, the XL2 is deffo worth the upgrade just on performance alone. If you take into account it's a design icon, a pioneering piece of materials science and technology, plus just looks so damn cool, its a no-brainer. Having an indestructible bass you can easily hide behind the sofa when you have rampant two year old running about is also worth its weight in gold...

[Pete Academy]

Just thought I'd post something about the original Steinberger experience. I discovered the bass at a trade show around 1982. It was on a Rotosound stand, as that company was producing the double ball-end strings for it. There was an immense buzz about it. I had a play and instantly thought 'I have to have one!' I wasn't too concerned about the sound - it was more the way it looked. I ordered one ( I was in the trade) and waited patiently for it to arrive. At that time the basses were coming into the UK at about 6 at a time, and they were getting snapped up straight away. Status Quo and Sting were among the customers. I ordered mine through the Bass Centre and was told it would be at the Frankfurt Music Show. A friend of mine, who worked fopr Ohm Industries, offered to collect it from that show. He turned up on the Bass Centre stand and took it. Not long after, a representative of Tears For Fears turned up, asking for the bass. The bass my man took was ordered for that band. Oh well, my man got in there first.

I gigged it throughout most of the 80s, and changed the single tone pot for an EMG bass/treble boost.

I can happily say it's a lovely and clean sound, great slap tone, and balances and plays beautifully.

I still have it.

[RhysP]

With regard to carbon Fibre Steinbergers being "fragile" - I once used one as a cricket bat & it didn't even go out of tune.
The mate I borrowed it off went apeshit when he caught us......

As someone else has said, you may chip one, but you'll never break one.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='RhysP' post='587869' date='Sep 2 2009, 07:54 PM']With regard to carbon Fibre Steinbergers being "fragile" - I once used one as a cricket bat & it didn't even go out of tune.
The mate I borrowed it off went apeshit when he caught us......

As someone else has said, you may chip one, but you'll never break one.[/quote]

I can promise anyone, this bass is unbreakable.

[yorks5stringer]

[attachment=32052:S5000495.JPG]

Anyone recognise this? I made it from a knackered old Hohner......

Edited September 2, 2009 by yorks5stringer

[lapolpora]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='587872' date='Sep 2 2009, 07:57 PM']I can promise anyone, this bass is unbreakable.[/quote]
The first time I laid eyes on a Steinberger was in the original Bass Centre in Wapping (the small showroom upstairs). The guy on the floor was demonstrating to another customer how strong it was. He lifted it to head height and dropped it on the floor. It wasn't even out of tune. I saved up and bought one, sold it years later when it was unfashionable and needed cash for other things and have always regretted parting with it. I'd have another in an instant if I could find one and actually afford one. And it was the best built bass I have ever seen from any era.

[Chris2112]

Yes, the Spirit series can be nice basses, but the "real deal" 1980's models are indeed the stuff of legend. I'd own one if I could find one!

[Pete Academy]

I want to sell mine but I'm unsure what to ask. I would like a minimum of £2000, as the serial number is 610. However, I can't decide what to do, as the price amy suddenly rocket.

[The Burpster]

The last ones on here fetched £1250 to £1500 so it would have be an asbolute minter for someone to pay £2k for it....

Thats not to say that someone wouldnt but you might have to wait a very long time.

[RichMcGill]

[quote name='MattM' post='587852' date='Sep 2 2009, 07:30 PM']As someone who's owned a Hohner B2 (same factory as a Spirit) and now own an XL2 courtesy of SilentFly (thanks again Max if you're reading...still loving it ) I'm fairly well qualified to comment.

The construction of the XL2 makes a huge difference to sustain and resonance, even acoustically. Also huge advantages in terms of stability - I had to do truss rod tweaks on a monthly basis with the Hohner, have had the XL2 nearly a year and no adjustment necessary - still has a great set-up. Did someone mention fragile? Any idea of how much stronger carbon graphite composite is over wood? Yes you could chip the outer gel coat, however you will never damage the body or neck of the XL2 without driving a tank over it...literally.

The wing bit (pivot plate pur-lease!)at the back is a good bit of design - there is an improved 'boomerang' version about, but this works well. The pivot is bang in the centre of gravity, its contoured so fits well with your body and also pivots so you don't have to move the whole strap/body in one go - strap stays statiic on your shoulder, probably a big USP with 80's shoulder pad wearers. The standard strap set-up on the Spirit/Hohner makes it very neck heavy in comparison - trust me.

Not mentioning the two EMG pickups which sound great - superb for dub, reggae or anything vaguely hi-fi/80s ish. The EMG Selects while decent, aint a patch on the originals.

So in summary, the XL2 is deffo worth the upgrade just on performance alone. If you take into account it's a design icon, a pioneering piece of materials science and technology, plus just looks so damn cool, its a no-brainer. Having an indestructible bass you can easily hide behind the sofa when you have rampant two year old running about is also worth its weight in gold... [/quote]

OK, the dream is re-instated. Looking forward to finding out myself when one comes along...

[The Burpster]

[quote name='RichMcGill' post='587811' date='Sep 2 2009, 06:54 PM']Good reply and some good points here. I've never touched an XL-2 or any other original Steinberger, so we've got a lot of ignorance here. It looks to me as though XL-2 is a period piece? Expensive, fragile, heavy but with a good sound & presumably plays well.

A showjumper to a donkey? I can see XL-2 has a lot more pedigree and is worth a lot more from the point of view of original price, current and long-term value. I suppose a donkey has worth and can do a good day's work, but a donkey is also slow & sluggish which I do not see in the Spirit.

A lot of the points here are about the material used. What does composite bring that's good? I notice that you rate Synapse which uses both composite and wood.

Trivially, the thing that really puzzles me is the need for "extra sticking out bits" in both XL-2 and Synapse which jar with my sense of good design. Spirit doesn't need such things and, to my mind, the design should meet the needs.

I've nearly stopped dreaming of one day changing my Spirit for XL-2. Synapse looks bigger? Small is a good design feature here, in my view, and to be valued. Spirit in original soft gig back fits into many places other basses couldn't begin to consider.

Looking forward to the day I get to actually experience XL-2, perhaps it'll all make sense then!![/quote]

OK here goes.... I have had a noodle with a 1981 XL-2 it was a peach but having just bought one of my PRSs I couldnt afford it. I have owned 2 Hohners but as stated above whilst they 'do the job' both the ones I had were unstable and tricky to set up and had VERY narrow necks which in the end was the reason I parted with them.

The XL-2 however weighed noticably more (making the Hohners seem like they were made from Balsa) and hence the Hohners and my guess would be the Spirit balance better because the necks are lighter. The Original composite ones are rightly now expensive because they are rare and very sought after.
Fragile they are not.
They were made from solid composite and carbon weave cloth, which was cutting edge for the day but due to material tech. moving on as it has, the new Synapse is a wood core with Carbon external laminates, which reduces the weight but gives similar tonal qualities which are quite unique to the innert compound of carbon.

Composite has a differant tonal quality because it is so dense. Aluminium necks and the odd neck through Alu, basses likewise have a unique tonal quality and sustain because of the material density. ( a similar tonal change can be noted by changing to a brass nut on a wood bass).

The sticky out bits are neccassary because the neck is considerably heavier because of its construction as above, this affects the COG and hence needs some help. The Spirit being lighter doesnt need this assistance (same as my Hohners didnt).

The Throughbred/Donkey analogy was more about breeding and roles, rather than being more or less competant. You coudnt get a Thoro'bred to haul rocks all day, as you couldnt get a Donkey to jump 6' Oxers. They are different and so shouldnt be judged in the same light.

I've not tried a Synapse but when I get the chance to I will - out of curiosty. For me tho' it would have to be the original XL-2 or a Status Streamline 4 which is an up-to-date evolution of the original idea using todays tech for the construction.

The wooden ones are a facsimilie of the original idea but they aren't the same.

[doctor_of_the_bass]

Allo

Yes, the original is a totally unique instrument, nothing like anything else out there. I've got JJ Burnel's old XL-2 - the legend has it that he got fed up with breaking instruments such as Yamahas and thus wanted a bass that was `JJ proof'. He went to the Bass Centre and they suggested the Steinberger. He liked it and said, how strong is it then? The sales guy said, `hit it against the wall' so JJ tapped it against said brickwork. `No, hit it' and he whacked it like a baseball bat into the wall. Took a chunk out of the wall - bass was fine!

I've thought about selling mine too but every time I look at it, I think, `extremely rare, iconic, classic, now vintage instrument, once owned by a modern bass legend'. £3k anyone?!!!

Nick

[martthebass]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='587957' date='Sep 2 2009, 08:54 PM']innert compound of carbon.

Composite has a differant tonal quality because it is so dense. Aluminium necks and the odd neck through Alu, basses likewise have a unique tonal quality and sustain because of the material density. ( a similar tonal change can be noted by changing to a brass nut on a wood bass).

The sticky out bits are neccassary because the neck is considerably heavier because of its construction as above, this affects the COG and hence needs some help. The Spirit being lighter doesnt need this assistance (same as my Hohners didnt).

I've not tried a Synapse but when I get the chance to I will - out of curiosty. For me tho' it would have to be the original XL-2 or a Status Streamline 4 which is an up-to-date evolution of the original idea using todays tech for the construction.

The wooden ones are a facsimilie of the original idea but they aren't the same.[/quote]

Thanks for that info B.

I thought about one of the Synapses but in the end went for OTPJ's old Streamline.

These are fairly lightweight but still feel substantial (7lbs on a small body) but balance well. Does anybody know if these are wooden cored?
Like the old Steinys these feel 'hard to break'.

[mrcrow]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' post='587875' date='Sep 2 2009, 08:03 PM'][attachment=32052:S5000495.JPG]

Anyone recognise this? I made it from a knackered old Hohner......[/quote]

that is pretty cool...

how did you do it...

[steve-soar]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='588144' date='Sep 2 2009, 11:11 PM']Allo

Yes, the original is a totally unique instrument, nothing like anything else out there. I've got JJ Burnel's old XL-2 - the legend has it that he got fed up with breaking instruments such as Yamahas and thus wanted a bass that was `JJ proof'. He went to the Bass Centre and they suggested the Steinberger. He liked it and said, how strong is it then? The sales guy said, `hit it against the wall' so JJ tapped it against said brickwork. `No, hit it' and he whacked it like a baseball bat into the wall. Took a chunk out of the wall - bass was fine!

I've thought about selling mine too but every time I look at it, I think, `extremely rare, iconic, classic, now vintage instrument, once owned by a modern bass legend'. £3k anyone?!!!

Nick[/quote]Hi Nick, why in f***s name did you have to post this? I'd would love JJs old Berger.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='587957' date='Sep 2 2009, 08:54 PM']...For me tho' it would have to be the original XL-2 or a Status Streamline 4 which is an up-to-date evolution of the original idea using todays tech for the construction...[/quote]

I bought the Streamline. I have played an original XL-2 and own a Hohner B2A (V). The Streamline lacks the weight of the Steinberger, and sounds (accordingly) different. Still very robust, though, and has a voice all of its own.
The Hohner's never given me any trouble. The neck's thicker than the 4-stringer and seems to stay put. The E,A,D and G sound fine, but it's lacking in response below Low "D", which I attribute to the [i]very[/i] light weight.

[Paul Cooke]

Any idea what the bassist from Easy Star All Stars was playing on? It had an absolutely awesome tone for dub reggae...







my pitiful little digital camera microphone completely fails to do it justice in this youtube I uploaded from the concert a month ago...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBCaJUr8I-o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBCaJUr8I-o[/url]

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Synapse

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

What are your opinions of this.......?

[The Burpster]

Isnt it basically a Spirit with upper and lower bouts.....?

Capable, but not like a Synapse IMO.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='589068' date='Sep 3 2009, 08:25 PM']Any idea what the bassist from Easy Star All Stars was playing on? It had an absolutely awesome tone for dub reggae...[/quote]

It is imdeed a Synapse.....

[url="http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Steinberger-Synapse-XS15FPA-Custom-5String-Bass?sku=519150"]http://bass-guitars.musiciansfriend.com/pr...Bass?sku=519150[/url]