What’s a good place to start with jazz solos

[ironside1966]

What’s a good place to start with jazz solos Is it a 12 bar using the blues scale?

Anybody know any chops to get started

[Doddy]

I'd start by learning the arpeggios and then playing them through the changes. When you are comfortable
with this, try again starting on the 3rd,the 5th and the 7th.
This isn't really a melodic way of soloing,but it will give you a good,solid place to start from.

[Bilbo]

The Blues is everything in jazz. It is where you will start and where you will end. Its all in there.

A jazz blues is different to a rock blues.

F7/// Bb7/// F7/// ////
Bb7/// //// F7/// D7///
Gm7/// C7/// F7/// ////

I would recommend you start with listening to some other people play the blues, the people who define the genre. Charlie Parker, Miles Davis (No More Blues, Straight No Chaser, Walkin'. Sids Ahead), SOnny Rollins Tenor Madness, John Coltrane Blue Train. There are 1,000s of them. Learn some other peoples solos. The blues scale is important but there is more: mixolydian scale (major scale starting on 5th), chromatics etc.

I recommend you follow Jakebass's advice and sing your solos as you play them (Keith Jarrett does it, Chick Corea, Paul Chambers sis it). It helps you connect with the relationship between your ideas and the music.

Have fun

[The Bass Doc]

A good place to start with a jazz solo is just before closing time - it helps the bar staff to clear the place promptly.

But seriously folks listen to bilbo - I reckon he knows more than most on here.

Edited September 4, 2009 by The Bass Doc

[Doddy]

You should totally check out the great jazz soloist-not just bass players-but if you do not
understand the basis of what they are doing then it really doesn't help too much in the initial learning phase.
Granted, it will give you inspiration and ideas,but you need to understand the basics so that you can then
execute your ideas. That's why I suggest getting a solid grounding in arpeggios first.When you are confident with this
you can then move on to more scale based exercises.
Learning and singing melodies will help too,but arpeggios,I think,are the basic building blocks of solo improvisation.

[purpleblob]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='589504' date='Sep 4 2009, 11:27 AM']What’s a good place to start with jazz solos Is it a 12 bar using the blues scale?

Anybody know any chops to get started[/quote]

I've been listening to the Janek Gwizdala podcasts of late and he mentions transcribing existing Jazz music to try to get a feel for what some of your preferred artists were doing melodically and harmonically etc.

Also saw some Adam Nitti vids on youtube where he talks about some of the possibilites for soloing including the (mentioned by Doddy) use of arpeggios etc. also talks about using the modes to add different dimensions to your soloing.

Sorry cannot recall the url's but I'm sure a quick search via your fav. search engine will find the info. if it's of interest.

[ironside1966]

Thanks for the advice

I have a good understanding of harmony, modes I know what they are but not really how to use them.
Played bass along time I even got grade 8 double bass when I was a teenager.
Never needed to solo much and if I did I relied on slap, good all slap( a bit on technique can take a little talent along way)

[Bilbo]

As you have probably already found, displays of technique are pretty unsatisfying. They fool some people all of the time but they won't fool you and you are the one who has to live with it!

[purpleblob]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='589913' date='Sep 4 2009, 05:29 PM']I have a good understanding of harmony, modes I know what they are but not really how to use them.[/quote]

One excercise I do (not often enough if truth be told) is record (or if you have a loop pedal even better) a single chord and play different modes over it just to get an idea of the sound/tension and a feel for the notes that work. Once you're happy with that do the same with three chords, a II V I pattern for example and play the arpeggios and modes over the chords - one of the most useful things I've found (not that I prretend to be an expert on soloing) is to then record your soloing and listen back to it. At this point you can see what you think works. Remember we're all different, so it's about what you like to hear (unless you're trying to recreate a solo from a specific tune ). By doing this you can experiment.

[jakenewmanbass]

As well as singing your ideas and at first THEN playing them to make sure you're not doing the reverse which is a common error (which Bilbo kindly attributed to me, but is not exclusively my idea ) I would also advocate playing through changes on a familiar tune, one which you have heard many people improvise on so might have some ideas and doing this completely without accompaniment. This leaves it to you to ensure that the sound of the changes is carried through your ideas. When playing with the best soloists you can always hear where they are unless they are particularly free, but that should come later....

and yes the blues is everything in jazz and you should be able to blow quite freely over them in any key.

Edited September 7, 2009 by jakesbass

[ironside1966]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='591974' date='Sep 7 2009, 10:26 AM']As well as singing your ideas and at first THEN playing them to make sure you're not doing the reverse which is a common error (which Bilbo kindly attributed to me, but is not exclusively my idea ) I would also advocate playing through changes on a familiar tune, one which you have heard many people improvise on so might have some ideas and doing this completely without accompaniment. This leaves it to you to ensure that the sound of the changes is carried through your ideas. When playing with the best soloists you can always hear where they are unless they are particularly free, but that should come later....

and yes the blues is everything in jazz and you should be able to blow quite freely over them in any key.[/quote]

I can tell when something is out of tune often when others can’t but I sing out of tune and often in monotones even though I am quite a musical person, Is this normal?

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='595981' date='Sep 11 2009, 07:27 PM']I can tell when something is out of tune often when others can’t but I sing out of tune and often in monotones even though I am quite a musical person, Is this normal?[/quote]
The singing needn't be out loud, it can be in your head just as long as the idea is heard before it's executed (that's at first and for practice) eventually it's a simultaneous process, and it doesn't matter how good your singing is for it to work, listen to Oscar Peterson or Keith Jarrett, while improvising they sound like they are mumbling, manic, toilet strainers, but the music is awesome.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='596433' date='Sep 12 2009, 11:27 AM']listen to Oscar Peterson or Keith Jarrett, while improvising they sound like they are mumbling, manic, toilet strainers, but the music is awesome.[/quote]

Paul Chambers did it, Wynton Kelly, Slam Stewart, Chick Corea (who does it so badly, it is brilliant ), George Benson, of course. Its actually quite common but some people are just a little more discrete about it.

[ironside1966]

Thanks’ for the good advice
Do you know where I can find some good phrases in notation to help me get started?

[Bilbo]

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concepts-Bass-Soloing-Chuck-Sher/dp/1883217008/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252941689&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concepts-Bass-Solo...1689&sr=8-1[/url]

[SMV]

I think this book is pretty good, it certainly helped me...

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Effective-Etudes-For-Jazz-Bass/dp/B001446O7E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1253038035&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Effective-Etudes-F...8035&sr=8-1[/url]

Edited September 15, 2009 by SMV