Moving from electric to Upright

[supabock]

Ok here's the story.....
I have been playing electric bass now for some 25 years or so and I really would like to learn the upright bass but not quite sure where to start. I have only ever tried one upright which was new, but a dog to play. Whilst I understand that there is a completely different technique, approach and mindset when playing uprights, and it will be something that will take time to become proficient in, is it a case that all basses will be a dog to play until I get used to the different instrument?

I have tried a variety of electric uprights, namely the NS Wav and Dean, and these are very playable. Should I start with the electric which is similar and playable and then progress to an acoustic upright. In reality will the electrics give me the sounds that a traditional acoustic will? Any suggestions as to a good playable acoustic to start on as there is nothing worse than buying cheap and fighting with the instrument, when you ar trying to make your life easy at the start? Its a big leap of faith in terms of dedication and money to spend on a traditional upright if all I get is frustration from it.....Help in this deepartment would be greatly appreciated

[slobluesine]

[quote name='supabock' post='591760' date='Sep 6 2009, 10:37 PM']Ok here's the story.....
I have been playing electric bass now for some 25 years or so and I really would like to learn the upright bass but not quite sure where to start. I have only ever tried one upright which was new, but a dog to play. Whilst I understand that there is a completely different technique, approach and mindset when playing uprights, and it will be something that will take time to become proficient in, is it a case that all basses will be a dog to play until I get used to the different instrument?

I have tried a variety of electric uprights, namely the NS Wav and Dean, and these are very playable. Should I start with the electric which is similar and playable and then progress to an acoustic upright. In reality will the electrics give me the sounds that a traditional acoustic will? Any suggestions as to a good playable acoustic to start on as there is nothing worse than buying cheap and fighting with the instrument, when you ar trying to make your life easy at the start? Its a big leap of faith in terms of dedication and money to spend on a traditional upright if all I get is frustration from it.....Help in this deepartment would be greatly appreciated[/quote]


i've got this for sale supabock...

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=51894&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=51894&hl=[/url]

i went to this after playing electric bass for 45 years and now i'm playing Double Bass, it's a great intermediate bass, easy low action with the right sound and feel of a double bass,

cheers john

[supabock]

Hi John,
What a wonderful instrument i will PM you.

Steve

[Doddy]

The problem with electric uprights like the Dean and the WAV is that they don't feel or sound like a
proper upright. They use more bass guitar style strings-the Dean especially as it has a shorter scale than most bass
guitars-and don't have the action of an acoustic. The NS doesn't have the familiar neck heel or body shape,so you can play over the entire
fingerboard,but you can't really learn thumb position or correct technique. Most EUB's don't suit bowing either.
They are great instruments but,to me, they are more like a big fretless bass rather than an upright.Someone who has
only played one of these EUB's would struggle to last one tune on an acoustic.
There are EUB's which sound and feel very upright-like (Clifton,Clevinger,Eminence etc.), but you are looking at big
money too.
I'd recommend trying a starter acoustic than a Dean or WAV,then at least you will get a feel for the instrument.

[tinyd]

Hi supabock
I was in a similar position last year, and I asked a similar question (go straight to DB, or EUB as intermediate) and someone gave me the advice to go straight to DB and I have to say that I'm glad I did. There's something really satisfying about learning to extract a sound out of an acoustic DB, so unless you specifically want to play EUB rather than DB, I'd go straight for a DB. If you can't find a decent DB either privately or from a shop near you, take a look on Thomann's site - there are some good basses at around the £1000 mark (from the reading I've done, the Christophers are good and some of the Thomann own-brand basses are made by Strunal, who also have a decent reputation for entry-level basses).

Hope this helps

[supabock]

Thanks to all so far for your valid points of view and opinions, its a great reassurance to know that theres a good knowledge base of experience out there to guide us novices. I am still erring on the side of going intermediate as i find the traditional instrument quite a tough one to play, but i'm not ruling anything out at this stage as the traditional instrument does appeal a lot to me

[3below]

I did this move (addition) several years ago. Found a nice(? imho) solid top bass with ebony board for reasonable money & went ahead. Was able to set it up myself (and later told I had achieved a good low action when I had a pro setup). My Mistake - put spirachords on it - great projection, volume and tone however my fingers really suffered no matter how much I played. Changed strings to Corelli 370s (Bob Gollihur USA was best price at time) and never looked back - like playing a bigger precision bass - more of everything - expression, power, thump, air, string feel, size, finger tiredness!, feedback - proper double bass players no criticism please Pickups - I purchased a really cheap double piezo off ebay and its pretty good into a peavey bass combo. Ideally it needs a buffer but I can get away with turning it up. DB is nice, I enjoy playing it, its right in many contexts, it fills the car and you can get really physical with it. Go for it and enjoy!

[supabock]

Hi, did you not find the transition from electric to Acoustic upright a really difficult transition? I just feel that when i try a real DB its just so impossible, so i would never know if i was playing a good one or if i would ever get to grips with it. I'm sure this must have gone through your mind when changing??

[teej]

I took the leap something over 20 years ago, and pretty soon afterwards I was playing upright exclusively. It is more effort than a solid electric bass guitar, and I think you're better off getting stuck in rather than taking an intermediate step. It might help you get used to the scale length, but you'll still have to develop the physical strength in your fingers to hold the strings down and get a strong enough note out of them. Better to do it all at the same time.

[dougal]

[quote name='teej' post='592522' date='Sep 7 2009, 10:43 PM']I took the leap something over 20 years ago, and pretty soon afterwards I was playing upright exclusively.[/quote]

Funny how that happens: of the eight-ish basses I own, it's the upright that gets played the most. There's something honest about you, a bow and a bass. No amps, no FX, no speakers: just a big wooden box & some strings. Love it. (I didn't believe them when they said 'Tone is in the fingers'.)

Back on topic I did electric=>EUB=>acoustic. If I was going to do it again I'd drop the whole EUB phase. It was easier to play, but I could only play pizz on it (arco was a non-starter, YMMV) and as soon as I started lessons (a must, I think on any instrument, especially one where you can easily knacker your muscules / tendons with bad technique) I wanted an acoustic.

Every time I type 'acoustic bass' I want to say 'proper'. So perhaps I'm biased...

[supabock]

Just out of interest what EUB did you go to? What model of DB did you end up playing?

[dougal]

[quote name='supabock' post='593266' date='Sep 8 2009, 08:45 PM']Just out of interest what EUB did you go to? What model of DB did you end up playing?[/quote]

I bought one in Japan: it was called the atelierz cub.

[url="http://www.atelierz.co.jp/cubpassive.htm"]http://www.atelierz.co.jp/cubpassive.htm[/url]



The bridge was a bit flatter:



Here they are together: as soon as I got the acoustic I neverplayed the EUB again.



My bass is a Zeller: the all solid model.

[supabock]

Both are nice looking instruments, whats the pickup on the DB?

[Doddy]

I went the other way from Dougal. I went from Bass guitar to Acoustic.
A couple of years later I bought my Clifton Electric Upright,but by then I was already comfortable on
the Acoustic.
The Clifton is great,and was the closest I played in feel and sound to my acoustic.
Check them out at www.cliftonbasses.co.uk

[tanuki]

moving to upright does feel like discovering "real" bass, its harder to get a tone therefore more satisfying by far.. i used to play a lot of fretless but i got rid of my last electic fretless shortly after geting the upright..

i still love electric but only practice on the upright now, the only negative affect maybe is that sometimes when i swap to electric halfway through a gig or after playing upright for a period i tend to attack the strings so hard that i barely make notes happen!

i tied a few EUB but most of the ones i tried sounded more like electric fretless to me, aparently the mo clifton EUB is a really good one tho, i heard one at a gig and it is the closest in sound i have experienced so far,,

[supabock]

Would it be right to think that if i try a DB in a music shop its likely to be factory set up and probably not that playable, and hence would need a good set up by a Luthier? Or is it a case of keep trying until i find one that seems to fit me so to speak, and feels comfortable and not to much of a struggle to get a note out of?

[Shaker]

I played electric bass for well over 20 years and then got a DB......about 5 years ago

Bad stuff

Although it is tuned the same it is a fundamentally different instrument, so be prepared to learn again and to be rubbish when you start.
Physically it is very demanding, you will use muscles that you don't use with EB and it can be discouraging.
When you start bowing it will sound [email protected] keep going. This will teach you to play in tune.

Good stuff

You get great gigs and the admiration of the gender of your choice. People really love the bassman!
The experience transfers back to your EB playing..less about speed and more about note selection and hearing (makes you a better musician?)
The sheer physicality of it is really quite joyous...you, the bass..it is very immediate.

Lessons learned

Take it slow...work up to 20 minutes each day, establish the plateau then move on.
Get some lessons to protect your body
Find the set up and the strings that suit you and your bass. This is HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

What else

I wouldn't consider the half step from EB to EUB as worthwhile. The EUB is useful ( and great fun to play) but doesn't prepare you for your final transition to DB (if that is what you want to do) enough to make it worthwhile. Jump in bravely, but carefully.
My instrument is a 1960's east european plywood fronted, ebony boarded POS, which plays rather nicely but will never be a really good instrument (think of it as a Squier, if you know what I mean) but is is hugely satisfying to play and I have got awesome gigs with it (festivals, radio etc.), that I truly believe I would not have got with the EB.

and finally....

A saxophonist friend of mine said to me ' you will never regret buying a Yamaha'...to paraphrase him ' you will never regret playing a DB'...except when you are walking 400m to the venue;)

Take the plunge...........if you buy wisely and it doesn't work out you should cover your costs, but don't get me started on amplifying the beast..........

Hope this helps

Shaker

PS If you are ever in Kent and you want to try my bass out PM me

Edited September 8, 2009 by Shaker

[supabock]

Its all a really great help, believe me. There was me thinking that all these issues were down to me, but it appears all have gone through this leap of faith and out the other side with great results!!

[supabock]

[quote name='Shaker' post='593305' date='Sep 8 2009, 09:20 PM']I played electric bass for well over 20 years and then got a DB......about 5 years ago

Bad stuff

Although it is tuned the same it is a fundamentally different instrument, so be prepared to learn again and to be rubbish when you start.
Physically it is very demanding, you will use muscles that you don't use with EB and it can be discouraging.
When you start bowing it will sound [email protected] keep going. This will teach you to play in tune.

Good stuff

You get great gigs and the admiration of the gender of your choice. People really love the bassman!
The experience transfers back to your EB playing..less about speed and more about note selection and hearing (makes you a better musician?)
The sheer physicality of it is really quite joyous...you, the bass..it is very immediate.

Lessons learned

Take it slow...work up to 20 minutes each day, establish the plateau then move on.
Get some lessons to protect your body
Find the set up and the strings that suit you and your bass. This is HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

What else

I wouldn't consider the half step from EB to EUB as worthwhile. The EUB is useful ( and great fun to play) but doesn't prepare you for your final transition to DB (if that is what you want to do) enough to make it worthwhile. Jump in bravely, but carefully.
My instrument is a 1960's east european plywood fronted, ebony boarded POS, which plays rather nicely but will never be a really good instrument (think of it as a Squier, if you know what I mean) but is is hugely satisfying to play and I have got awesome gigs with it (festivals, radio etc.), that I truly believe I would not have got with the EB.

and finally....

A saxophonist friend of mine said to me ' you will never regret buying a Yamaha'...to paraphrase him ' you will never regret playing a DB'...except when you are walking 400m to the venue;)

Take the plunge...........if you buy wisely and it doesn't work out you should cover your costs, but don't get me started on amplifying the beast..........

Hope this helps

Shaker

PS If you are ever in Kent and you want to try my bass out PM me[/quote]


Oh and by the way thanks for the offer.....Maybe you should elaborate on the amplifying of the beast, as that would be the next stage i'm sure ??

[Doddy]

[quote name='supabock' post='593303' date='Sep 8 2009, 09:20 PM']Would it be right to think that if i try a DB in a music shop its likely to be factory set up and probably not that playable, and hence would need a good set up by a Luthier? Or is it a case of keep trying until i find one that seems to fit me so to speak, and feels comfortable and not to much of a struggle to get a note out of?[/quote]

Any bass will benefit from having a good set up,but you may find that the factory set up is comfortable for
you. It's also best to try a few different basses as each one feels different-has it got an E flat or D neck,the
body depth,sustain,bevelled fingerboard....there are a lot of variables,so trying a whole bunch out is always the best way.

[guyl]

+1 for the "straight to a real upright bass" approach.

Getting a decent setup will give you a good start on any new bass - I'd say this is almost as important as the quality of your 1st instrument. Spending on a decent pickup is money well spent too.

Good luck!

[TheRev]

My 2p....

Athough I agree in principle with the 'go straight to the DB' camp, there are a few things to consider.

I bought an Aria EUB acouple of years ago, pretty much on a whim and completely fell in love with all things DB. It changed my attitude and playing style (and got me so many gigs) that I decided that I was going to move on to a proper bass ASAP. However, Once I'd got the cash together and done a bit more research, I chose to stick with the EUB (albeit, a much better quality one than my Aria). My reasons were down to portability and amplification; I live in a small flat up 4 flights of stairs, I have a number of basses and amps and my girlfriend has a lot of shoes and handbags - finding space for a 3/4 size DB as a real issue. Secondly, all of my gigs are amplified and the amount of experimentation that people go through to find the right pickup made it seem logical to go for something that was designed to be amplified in the first place.

The EUB I bought is an Eminence, which is very close in feel to a DB and the amplified sound is pretty close too, so for me, EUB is a better option than DB.
However, once I can move to a bigger place, or Mrs Rev moves out and takes her shoes and bags with her, I'll be straight on the hunt for a real DB..... ^_^ Thomann do some very nice basses (Thomman badged Strunals I think) for about £800. Spend another £200 or so on setup and strings and you'll have a very nice bass for reasonable money.

[tanuki]

that eminence one does look nice, most of the ones i have tried have been more stick like..

[TheRev]

Yep, nothing sticky about them.

They're designed from the ground up as 'portable double basses' for touring and the like so they've kept them as double bassy as possible. Playability & feel is close to the real thing and the amplified sound is pretty much exactly what you'd get from a decent ply bass with a decent pickup. They were the only ones that have consistently good things said about them on the Talkbass forums - everything else seems to be either a bit hit and miss playibility-wise or needed modification to make it sound decent (Yamaha; I'm looking at you....).

[supabock]

Interesting as my mind is swayed after every post