I'm obviously doing something wrong, help please

[Tinman]

[b]bassbluestew[/b]

I had a very similar rig many many years ago. I never had a problem being heard at any gig ( it WAS the older 4x10 combo rather than the 2x10 to be fair ).
It seems the amp is just dandy - have you thought of maybe borrowing another bass to try it out ( I used StingRay's with my Trace set up and it sounded great ) just to cinfirm its not a bass issue. At the moment I use a MesaBoggie 400+ and a couple of cabs ( an Ashdown ABM810 and a Basson B210B ) and have a couple of basses ( 5 string StingRay and G&L L- 2500 ) Now the reason I listed all this gear isn't to try to show off, but when I use the Boogie + Basson + StingRay I don't get a good sound, big hole in the middle range. However same setup with the G&L and it sounds completely different. Lots of middle and a fab sound. Thats why I think it's worth borrowing another bass to try it out. Also is there another band you could jam with...........just trying all the variables.

Good luck
S

[Tinman]

Thanks for replying fella, I know this topic has been going for sometime.
I have a 5 string version of the BTB that I'm using, it's fitted with different pickups and elixir strings, I have to admit I didn't use it last night and as an aside I'm at present fighting with Ibanez to supply me with the 4 string version of those pickups cos I'm not happy with the output differences between the two basses. Anyway, I'm rehearsing again tonight and will try the 5, trouble is to all intents and purposes they're identical basses just with different pickups.
I've thought about the possibility of it being a bass related issue, trouble is, no matter how much GAS I have, I can't afford to lash out on any more kit at the moment. Also, as far as borrowing one, I live in the flatlands of Lincolnshire, where noone can hear you scream and know noone I could get one from.

[Tinman]

[b]ShergoldSnickers[/b]

QUOTE(tinman @ Apr 30 2007, 09:04 AM)
RIGHT!!! I hope you guys aren't getting bored with this topic cos I still need help!

First off I put the whole rig up on a small coffee table ( makes the whole thing taller than me and I'm 5'10") this seemed to solve the problem of hearing it when I'm stood next to it. Moving away from it I found that I got completely lost so I went back to it and boosted the higher mids but this only served to make the bottom end disappear, dropped the higher mids out and it got lost again


I don't think you are as far away from solving this as might appear. The clues are in the phrase above. The height adjustment solves one problem in part at least. Still try boosting the mid to high mids, but be very miserly on moving those controls on the graphic. A tiny bit at a time. You should reach point where you can hear yourself properly but without too much of the bottom end going. Getting rid of some of the extreme treble may help.

I've never been able to get a decent sound from an amp with a graphic eq section (bass or hi-fi for that matter), but this may just be me as I've heard plenty of people who can. Let's hope you're one of 'em Tinman! Stick at it – it takes some of us years to get our sound in a band context.

[Tinman]

Thanks for that Shergoldsnickers, like I said, we're rehearsing again tonight, so I'll get back to you with the results having taken your advice about the high mids.

Thanks Lads

Pete

[Tinman]

[b]jhferret[/b]

Shame a lot of this thread went missing during the cutover. The apparent difference in output between your two basses may be down to having different strings. Generally speaking flats dont cut through as well and sound subjectively quieter because the ear is most sensitive to those frequencies missing from flats. I tried a set of TI flats on one of my basses and took them off after 1 gig. Like you I need to try them in a rehersal first to try and get the best out of them without having to ponce about at a gig.

[Tinman]

[b]Russ[/b]

I was in the middle of a two-guitar ego battle for six years, and basically, low mids are your friends. In fact, midrange in general is your friend and the Trace pre-shape button is the enemy!

Bump your EQ at about 200Hz up to 800Hz/1KHz, then keep it fairly flat from there up. Also, the BTBs are fairly toppy, so keep the treble control set to flat, with a little boost on the bass and mid knobs, and maybe favour the bridge pickup a little. The real "voice" of a bass is in its mids, so don't be afraid to let them shine!

[Tinman]

QUOTE(jhferret @ Apr 30 2007, 08:54 PM)
Shame a lot of this thread went missing during the cutover. The apparent difference in output between your two basses may be down to having different strings. Generally speaking flats dont cut through as well and sound subjectively quieter because the ear is most sensitive to those frequencies missing from flats. I tried a set of TI flats on one of my basses and took them off after 1 gig. Like you I need to try them in a rehersal first to try and get the best out of them without having to ponce about at a gig.


Unfortunately the difference in output between the two was there before I changed to flats on the four string, it's definately something to do with either the pickups or the preamp. I'm hoping that it's not the eq, at the moment I'm no further forward with Ibanez re: getting a pair of their DFR pickups, you may be surprised to hear that I actually prefer the sound of them over the Bart Mk1's. Anyway I've been talking to the Ibanez rep since December, I'm even happy to return the Bart's in exchange, nothing. The rep keeps saying that the DFR's are only fitted to the high end BTB's which is utter crap, if the websites I've looked at are anything to go by. Ho hum.

Anyway guys, a big thanks to all of you who helped this newbie with his troubles. I'm sure I could hear some of you shouting at your pc's calling me alsorts of derogatory names, questioning my intelligence.
It would appear that I am finally happy with my sound in the band environment, finally figured out what Russ posted while I was out rehearsing, BTB's are toppy. My sound isn't any good for soloing however it now sits nicely in the mix. A combination of convincing the guitarists(note the small g) to drop bottom end out of their sound, raising my rig, going to flats (although I'm not convinced whether I'd be better off with half-rounds) and dropping out the high end mids and treble out of both the amp and the Bass, have given me a thumping but mellow sound that is both distinct and not harsh. I know some of you will disagree with my choice but it's horses for courses.

Once again a huge thanks for all your help.

On the downside(I will post this in the gen equip topic) my Hercules double stand collapsed, giving me some nasty dings and scratches. Ho hum, what he giveth with one hand he taketh away and makes a mess with the other. I'm just glad that the Basses hung on it weren't expensive.

[Tinman]

[b]rodl2005[/b]

Glad U R @ apoint where U are getting some satisfaction with yr sound! If U like the flats-thats yr call- I found 1/2 rounds to be as they describe 1/2 way between the flats & rounds-NO-probly more 1/4 way from flats to rounds-far more like flats! If U want a flatt-ish sounding round wound just use 'em for 6 months!!! 8)

BTW- DRAG re the stand collapsing- & if they were yr BTB Ibanez' on the stand- they're good guitars- by all means try some others-a Jazz might suit yr style & help U be heard, as might a 'ray-but the new Squier Vintage reissues look & sound nice!- I'd love a Precision one -white!!!
Keep us posted re how yr sound is going- IMHO I'm always interested to hear how bands/basses/sounds/amps are working.

Keep on rockin
Rod.

[Tinman]

[b]2pods[/b]

don't know if this will help any but I've used Ibanez basses a lot with Trace amps.
My first one was a SR700 with active treble and bass, second was a SR1300PM coffee table paduak/wenge jobbie with AFR's active treble, bass, mid, and mid frequency select, and this SR Prestige 1000FM with USA made Barts with the three way eq again. (there was also a Stingray, but that's not the point)

The Trace's were obviously pre-Peavey, so everything you have might not have been on mine.

Anyway, at the gig I would start with everything flat.
That's the bass volume full up, treble,bass, and mid halfway. I would also put the pickup pan in the middle.

On the amp I would set my input level, switch IN the Trace pre-shape (gives you punch), set the dual comp to low halfway, hi about a quarter, balance in the middle.
I would normally have the graphic flat at this point.
This gives me a starting point.

Do your soundcheck (it's good if you have a long lead, or borrow a radio system) and adjust from there.

Personally, I would first try adjusting the PU balance. More back PU can be useful to clarify the bass sometimes at the expense of boom
If that doesn't work, Try the tones on your bass (subtly, not massive swings, unless that's what you're after).
Sometimes using the mid boost up and then rotating the mid frequency can clear things up too (also try the same thing while cutting the bass eq on the bass)
Remember, you'll have to change you're input level on the amp if you're adjusting the active tone circuit

If it is a really boomy pub/hall, I may take the pre shape out and use the graphic to cut the bottom and boost the mids.
I forgot, for really quick eq change, use the dual comp balance control. Clockwise more treble, more slap etc, Anti-clockwise more bass, more dub.
Again, after this check and readjust if needed the input level.

Not much use to you probably, but you never know.
By the way, ask the Ibanez rep to let you try the USA Barts. They are totally different to the MK1's. Even though this Ibby is not as well finished as the last one I had, I think this is the most "musically" sounding PU's and circuit I've had on an Ibanez bass.
HTH

Peter

Edited May 17, 2007 by Tinman

[Tinman]

[b]ShergoldSnickers[/b]

QUOTE(tinman @ May 1 2007, 08:21 AM)
Anyway guys, a big thanks to all of you who helped this newbie with his troubles. I'm sure I could hear some of you shouting at your pc's calling me alsorts of derogatory names, questioning my intelligence.


I just remember what it's like to be a newbie, the more help you get the faster you progress, so all help is freely given, and no intelligence questioned, no derogatory names yelled. Just hope some of it was useful.


QUOTE
On the downside(I will post this in the gen equip topic) my Hercules double stand collapsed, giving me some nasty dings and scratches. Ho hum, what he giveth with one hand he taketh away and makes a mess with the other. I'm just glad that the Basses hung on it weren't expensive.


I was thinking of buying a Hercules stand as well - just the single one mind. Mmmm, not clever for it to collapse.

[Tinman]

QUOTE(ShergoldSnickers @ May 1 2007, 08:03 PM)
I just remember what it's like to be a newbie, the more help you get the faster you progress, so all help is freely given, and no intelligence questioned, no derogatory names yelled. Just hope some of it was useful.
I was thinking of buying a Hercules stand as well - just the single one mind. Mmmm, not clever for it to collapse.


Thanks for that fella. Re the stand, I think the single ones are different in that there isn't so much downward pressure on the central shaft, don't quote me mind. I have a feeling that there's a bit more of a backward lean to them.

[Tinman]

[b]OldGit[/b]

I had this "can't hear it" problem with ray and ashdown rig - embarrasingly. one time the sound man took me out of a serious size PA cos my on stage vol was so loud he didnt need to re-inforce it ummmmm

The answer for me was to make sure the 2K was up. Then I can hear it at reasonable volumes, no matter what is going on around me, then I added in little bits of the eq to make it work better 20 feet from the speakers. I have wireless system so it's easier to go walkabout. Knowing what to twiddle is another problem though ..

That bass and rig are long gone but if I have to use someone elses I always boost the 2k first. I guess you have to find the frequency that works with your ears.
+1 on elevated speakers too (or kickbacks)


In a big PA scenario the house sound is beyond your control anyway so you are really just using your backline as a monitor.

Of course playing quieter all round helps but we all play with drummers ...

[Tinman]

Had a gig last night, I was cr@p but more importantly I could hear everything I was doing (and some of it was bloody painful)
I'm wondering now if it was that that made me make so many mistakes or have I been making them all along and not known about it?
Anyway I'm chuffed to bits with my sound and just want to say thanks for all your help with this.

Cheers

Pete

[Tinman]

[b]jhferret[/b]

Cool. The old sages of basstalk do have their uses.

[Tinman]

[b]BeLow[/b]

There all sorts of things which affect your sound all the stuff the other guys have said I would have said, a couple of things to add though.

You may find that where your amp is set up has a bearing on your sound. Basically if you are located in a corner, the walls and floor throw reflecetd sound forward, which is good as it pumps up the percireved volume, but it can also set up accoustic interference patterns depending on how far you are away from the walls.

If you add to that the fact that some solid floors are'nt and you can end up getting the floor under your rig acting like the body an accoustic guitar, or you maybe unlucky get in just the wrong place.

There are some really complicated maths behind working out the optimum position, which frankly may not help as there will be other factors affecting the sound, but what is important is to try moving the position of your rig if the sound isn't working for you, and you have tried all the other tricks mentioned. In particular look at adjacent walls and try moving or angling the rig a bit to see if you get a better sound.

Edited May 17, 2007 by Tinman

[Tinman]

[b]OldGit[/b]

QUOTE(tinman @ May 13 2007, 05:14 PM)
Had a gig last night, I was cr@p but more importantly I could hear everything I was doing (and some of it was bloody painful)
I'm wondering now if it was that that made me make so many mistakes or have I been making them all along and not known about it?
Anyway I'm chuffed to bits with my sound and just want to say thanks for all your help with this.

Cheers

Pete



Pete What did you do?
OG

[Tinman]

What I'll have to do is take a photo of th eq cos I can't quite remember how I've set it. From memory tho, I've boosted the low end, cut some of the low mids, left the high mids flat,little bit of top end (this is on the amp) little bit of compression and a fair amount of valve.
On the bass I've boosted the bass and treble a little, boosted low mid and favoured the neck pickup a little.
Also I've raised the rig by about 2 feet and put flats on the bass.
Won't work for all but it's suiting the band sound at the moment.

Pete

[Tinman]

[b]OldGit[/b]

QUOTE(tinman @ May 13 2007, 06:49 PM)
What I'll have to do is take a photo of th eq cos I can't quite remember how I've set it. From memory tho, I've boosted the low end, cut some of the low mids, left the high mids flat,little bit of top end (this is on the amp) little bit of compression and a fair amount of valve.
On the bass I've boosted the bass and treble a little, boosted low mid and favoured the neck pickup a little.
Also I've raised the rig by about 2 feet and put flats on the bass.
Won't work for all but it's suiting the band sound at the moment.

Pete



Ok good starting point and if you play that venue again you'll need to recall those settigs but it will be room specific to a certain extent ...
it's apain

[Veils]

You will find in the majority of cases that gain will aid you in cutting through the mix. It adds a bit of sharpness to your tone.

I would suggest this:

Set the eq flat, if you have any kind of visual indicator on your amp that it is clipping, continually add a lil gain and keep playing until you find you are starting to clip, add a bit of compression (if your amp has it - I assume it does), then add some mids and maybe dial in a bit of low end to bulk your sound up a bit. You are better doing this from your amp mainly, and have your bass eq set flat as well while doing this, then obviously when you are playing, use the EQ on your bass to tweak ever so slightly if needs be.

Some may disagree with this way of doing things, but that is how I would go about it

[bass_ferret]

F**K ME, it must of taken hours to do this! Well done that man.

Did wonders for your post count mind.

Edited May 17, 2007 by bass_ferret

[Tinman]

Took a little while but I figured it was worth it as it has some pretty valid info, especially for the uninitiated like myself.
And yes the post count went up much to the wife's annoyance

[acidbass]

I'm a big fan of the flat-EQ policy as outlined by presoulnation above, I start with everything flat and just boost whatever areas I feel are lacking. Usually a bit of bass boost from my onboard EQ is plenty for me to be heard on stage, and I let the soundman do the rest for the punters!