bubinga5 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 What is your method for finding the Key of a song you are covering?..im havng a bit of a mental block.. What key do you think this tune is in..i think its in G flat... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTXljIqxRE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTXljIqxRE[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 or F# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Bay Splayer' post='595102' date='Sep 10 2009, 08:54 PM']or F#[/quote] Why F sharp..is this song not based around minor chords..so should be a flat...is my lack of theory knowledge showing? Edited September 10, 2009 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I've always thought of this tune as being in D major, except it doesn't resolve to the tonic at any point. It's just chords III and II (F#m7 and Em7) repeatedly. For me, the lack of resolution is what makes it work as a track. Feel free to shoot me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='bubinga5' post='595110' date='Sep 10 2009, 09:03 PM']Why F sharp..is this song not based around minor chords..so should be a flat...is my lack of theory knowledge showing?[/quote] Yes. Minor chords does not equal flats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Nice tune, whatever the key, I had forgotten about this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) It is in D Major, as the key of D major will contain these chords: I D Maj II Emin III F#min IV G Maj V A Maj VI B min Hence if it only has F#Minor and E minor (I did not listen to the whole track), then as stated above it is in D major. You could solo using the D Major scale (other relative natural minor scale B minor - same notes). Even though it does not use the actual D Major (tonic) chord - songs do not have to use the tonic chord. Eg - Oye Como Va (Santana) - chords Aminor and D Major only, song oye como va is in G major This can be a bit confusing - all key follow the pattern as above: I major II minor III minor IV major V major VI minor (we will ignore 7 atm) This pattern is derived from the fact that all the chords in these sequences use only notes from the parent / key scale. So all you need to ever do is look at what chords are in a song and see what fits these rules. Sometimes they will not all fit. errrr,eg, Sultans of Swing is in F Major (or Rel minor D minor - same thing in essence) - Dm, C Bb F chords, but changes to Amajor at times for brief moments in the verses and first solo, with the inserting of the A Major chord . The keys F Maj / EDITED TO SAY D [i]NATURAL[/i] min use A minor chord, so the key changes briefly every time the A maj chord is used. Gives it a different feel, and you have to change the scales in the solo from F major to Amajor to fit over the A major chord. Also, the key of the song is not always the same as the root of the progression. Sweet Home Alabama is in G Major (key - except for the odd F chord), but could be said to resolve to the chord D (ie it sounds "home" when you end on that chord). So you can solo using G major scale, or D Major pentatonic. The Lynryd Skynrd solos use G major, which is why the second one can sound a little "odd", as the chord progressions seems to be rooted on D major.... Or in Kid Rock's version, Dminor pentatonic sections in the (wicked) solo make it sound dirty and bluesy. Think I might have gone off on a theory rant these, sorry. I can try to explain it again, if anyone actually cares lol. OP question answered - D Major Chris Edited September 10, 2009 by nottswarwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='nottswarwick' post='595207' date='Sep 10 2009, 10:47 PM']Sometimes they will not all fit. errrr,eg, Sultans of Swing is in F Major (or Rel minor D minor - same thing in essence) - Dm, C Bb F chords, but changes to Amajor at times for brief moments in the verses and first solo, with the inserting of the A Major chord . The keys F Maj / D min use A minor chord, so the key changes briefly every time the A maj chord is used. Gives it a different feel, and you have to change the scales in the solo from F major to Amajor to fit over the A major chord.[/quote] I don't agree with this. A major is the normal 5th Chord for D harmonic minor, so there is no key change to A major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) ooo, I am not sure now pete. I though that the third of a harmonic minor was augmented (Making it F augmented, not F major as in the song)? And Sultans also has a chord of C Major in it, but the D harm minor has a C# as the 7th chord does it not? In saying D minor I mean D NATURAL minor (aka f major) which contains all the chords but not A major, hence the little key changes. AS he solos, he is using fmajor and or D min pentatonic, except over the A major chord as it does not fit, due to the fleating key changes. Hence me thinking the way I was. Please shoot me down and teach me tho if I am wrong please :-) Edited September 10, 2009 by nottswarwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='nottswarwick' post='595207' date='Sep 10 2009, 10:47 PM']I major II minor III minor IV major V major VI minor (we will ignore 7 atm)[/quote] VII is a diminished right? one of the songs our band play we do with power chords and we use the VII, but now i'm doing an acoustic version and that chord has given me a lot of trouble. but i think i have it. if the root chord is D maj (as it is in this song) then the VII is Db, A, Gb right? thats what i'm using and it sounds right to me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Well just as I thought - I know FA about theory, back to playing roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) For my lot it's easy. We chase the key around through trial and error to find one that suits our vocalist, and then realise it's A (invariably) EDIT that's in answer to your first by the way Edited September 10, 2009 by WalMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) tait yes VII is diminshed. list the notes of the major scale and then under put crosses to work out each chord: For D major: D E F# G A B C# D E F# G A etc D F# A I D E G B II Em F# A C# III F#m G B D IV G A C# E V A B D F# VI Bm C# E G Vii C# min flat 5 (diminished triad) Edited September 10, 2009 by nottswarwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='WalMan' post='595237' date='Sep 10 2009, 11:26 PM']For my lot it's easy. We chase the key around through trial and error to find one that suits our vocalist, and then realise it's A (invariably) [/quote] A perfect plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I'm to cool for notes and keys. i play in soul. :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='RichB' post='595233' date='Sep 10 2009, 11:22 PM']Well just as I thought - I know FA about theory, back to playing roots. [/quote] If you knew FA about theory you wouldn't know they were roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 [quote name='EssentialTension' post='595241' date='Sep 10 2009, 11:29 PM']If you knew FA about theory you wouldn't know they were roots. [/quote] You caught me out. I'm actually a prof of music, no I'm not. I've just started to try to get to grips with theory properly ( and by that I mean at the very early stages of) and having read this thread realise I have a loooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg journey. :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) Not really. I know most of the stuff above and it's just about realising the names of the chords (and actually, it's easier than that - usually just if they're major or minor) and then seeing which 'key' or major scale uses them. And then if it's a sad song, call it minor and move what key you thought it was down 3 semitones. simples [size=1] and yes I did edit it just to say simples[/size] Edited September 10, 2009 by iamapirate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='iamapirate' post='595253' date='Sep 10 2009, 11:47 PM']Not really. I know most of the stuff above and it's just about realising the names of the chords (and actually, it's easier than that - usually just if they're major or minor) and then seeing which 'key' or major scale uses them. And then if it's a sad song, call it minor and move what key you thought it was down 3 semitones. [/quote] lol alot more succinct than my effort. It is mostly good to think in terms of western music being derived form the major scale, (even in minor keys) - as mr iamapirate refers to, every major key has a relative minor, which is 3 semitones down, or put another way, the relative minor is chord Vi of the major. there are always exceptions, rules that are broken because it sounds good. Edited September 10, 2009 by nottswarwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 He He. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='bubinga5' post='595080' date='Sep 10 2009, 08:28 PM']What is your method for finding the Key of a song you are covering?..im havng a bit of a mental block..[/quote] I sit there and plonk randomly around on my bass until something fits. [quote name='bubinga5' post='595080' date='Sep 10 2009, 08:28 PM']What key do you think this tune is in..i think its in G flat...[/quote] It's in the key of 'second fret in from the nut on the thickest string' (4 string) or two frets in and one up from the thickest string (5 String). No need to thank me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='595312' date='Sep 11 2009, 12:29 AM']I sit there and plonk randomly around on my bass until something fits.[/quote] No joke, an amazing keyboard player that I usually play with, to find keys, just starts chromatically up until he finds the key that rings int his ear! and I didn't realise this until he said it! I just thought it was jazz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='nottswarwick' post='595238' date='Sep 10 2009, 11:27 PM']tait yes VII is diminshed.[/quote] If we are being technical about it, the VII chord is actually half diminished,as to make it fully diminished would require a double flat 7,(eg. C,bE,bG,bbB) while the diatonic VII chord only has a flat 7 ( C,bE,bG,bB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 [quote name='iamapirate' post='595313' date='Sep 11 2009, 01:32 AM']No joke, an amazing keyboard player that I usually play with, to find keys, just starts chromatically up until he finds the key that rings int his ear! and I didn't realise this until he said it! I just thought it was jazz... [/quote] He doesn't sound that amazing to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I prefer to figure out what the chords are. Sometimes it's a real bitch trying to figure out what the key is - and it's not always necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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