Finding the key of a song you are covering?

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Doddy' post='595317' date='Sep 11 2009, 01:56 AM']If we are being technical about it, the VII chord is actually half diminished,as to make it fully diminished would
require a double flat 7,(eg. C,bE,bG,bbB) while the diatonic VII chord only has a flat 7 ( C,bE,bG,bB).[/quote]

Would that also be known as minor 7 flat 5? I was only talking about the triads, not an extended four note chord. Sorry.

Edited September 11, 2009 by nottswarwick

[Doddy]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='595365' date='Sep 11 2009, 08:18 AM']Would that also be known as minor 7 flat 5? I was only talking about the triads, not an extended four note chord. Sorry.[/quote]

Yes half diminished is minor 7 flat 5.

if we're just talking triad then yes it is a diminished triad.

[Faithless]

Well, VII diminished chords cannot 'happen' in natural minor, it'd have to be a harmonic minor, I believe, yep..

[xgsjx]

I'd need to run thru the scale on an instrument, but from listening to it, it actually sounds like the key is a G major. Although the first 2 bass chords (that's if you played the 2 notes as a chord) could be F#5 & E5 they do fall in that scale. Could be wrong tho!

Sorry, Edited to change my mind to G major instead of B.

Edited September 11, 2009 by xgsjx

[Hot Tub]

Can't you just say, eg. "It starts on C#."

The very first note in Radar Love (Golden Earring) is C#; get that right and everything else falls into place.

Simplistic, I know, but it works!

[nottswarwick]

It is in D Major, as the key of D major will contain these chords:

I D Maj
II Emin
III F#min
IV G Maj
V A Maj
VI B min

Hence if it only has F#Minor and E minor (I did not listen to the whole track), then as stated above it is in D major. You could solo using the D Major scale (other relative natural minor scale B minor - same notes).

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='595798' date='Sep 11 2009, 04:19 PM']I'd need to run thru the scale on an instrument, but from listening to it, it actually sounds like the key is a G major. Although the first 2 bass chords (that's if you played the 2 notes as a chord) could be F#5 & E5 they do fall in that scale. Could be wrong tho![/quote]
The chords are F#m7 and Em7. F#m7 (and indeed F#5) contains a C#, which doesn't occur in G major.

In fact, just looking at the chords, we've got:
[list]
[*]F#m7 containing F#, A, C# and E
[*]Em7 containing E, G, B and D
[/list]Stick all those letters in order into one octave, and we've got D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#. D major scale. Simples*.

[size=1]* Y'know, a year or two from now, we'll look back at all these posts that finish with "simples" and wonder what the f*** that was all about. [/size]

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='595813' date='Sep 11 2009, 04:34 PM']Simples*.

[size=1]* Y'know, a year or two from now, we'll look back at all these posts that finish with "simples" and wonder what the f*** that was all about. [/size][/quote]
I'm wondering that already.

[xgsjx]

I stand corrected, it is D. I have a song I play with a run from G in the scale of D & was thinking of this scale starting on G (my song is in D too).

[iamapirate]

[quote name='Doddy' post='595319' date='Sep 11 2009, 12:58 AM']He doesn't sound that amazing to be honest.[/quote]
hah, well he is. He's playing at grade 8 level, practical and at least grade 5 theory, not sure. he just doesn't have perfect pitch.

[Doddy]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='595956' date='Sep 11 2009, 07:03 PM']hah, well he is. He's playing at grade 8 level, practical and at least grade 5 theory, not sure. he just doesn't have perfect pitch.[/quote]

To be honest if he's got grade 5 theory and grade 8 practical he should be able to hear roughly
what key he's in.
I haven't got any grades or perfect pitch but can hear the key quickly without searching for notes.

[lowdown]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='595313' date='Sep 11 2009, 01:32 AM']No joke, an amazing keyboard player that I usually play with, to find keys, just starts chromatically up until he finds the key that rings int his ear! and I didn't realise this until he said it! I just thought it was jazz... [/quote]

Not sure that is amazing..
It sounds like the Peter Sellers approach...
'A shot in the Dark'


Garry

[BigRedX]

As someone with just enough musical theory knowledge to be dangerous, why does knowing the key matter?

If you're playing a cover exactly as it was recorded then all the notes are already there for you on the record. If you're adapting it to suit the style of the band then the notes you use will depend upon your musical sensibilities as to whether they sound 'right' or not.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='596454' date='Sep 12 2009, 11:57 AM']As someone with just enough musical theory knowledge to be dangerous, why does knowing the key matter?[/quote]
It usually doesn't, but that never stops [i]me[/i] doing it. I quite often transcribe new stuff I play, even though I know full well what's going on. It's good practice, and it gives me a strange, fuzzy, warm feeling inside.

I'm quite visual when it comes to music, so all this stuff helps me get my head round new songs, chord progressions and basslines. It means I can think up stuff to play that I might not have done had I not figured out the key or transcribed it or whatever.