Why buy an expensive bass?

[Doctor J]

You owe it to your audience (if you have one) to only play the best. If they've paid in to see you rock out do you really want them to think you're a band of tight-fisted wierdos, that they've given you money and you've spent it on a new conservatory or a nice cardigan instead of a fancy bass? Hell no! That's not rock 'n' roll. That's not even jazz. They want to see you rock, rock hard and would you cheat them out of that by playing some cheapo piece of crap?

I should hope not.

The audience comes first and that's why I buy expensive basses. Shame on you cheapo lovers, won't you consider somebody other than yourselves for a change?

[Lfalex v1.1]

I'm liking the car analogies.

it works slightly differently for me, but it's still about priorities.

"Because I play a Vigier,Status,Yamaha,Ibanez,Musicman and Fender, I drive a decade-old Skoda. At least the Trace stack fits in the back with the seats down..."

[lojo]

I just brought a maple ric 4003 from a nice bloke on this forum, i guess as far as this thread is concerned it is an expensive bass

Why did I buy it? I only play in pub covers bands, could easily do that with a squire

Well

Ive wanted a maple ric since I knew what a guitar was (reasons why would bore), and I am 40 now, so as someone else said, a treat for hundreds or hours of hard graft, I have no interest in sports cars or other expensive hobbies

If I look after it (choose which gigs carefully that i take it too!) Id guess I could get my money back if I needed to, so its a cash asset

Will see its first gig on saturday night, did a band practice on it last night and really loved the tone (didnt really get a chance to mess around with the settings either)

Strange though, now I wish I could play my P bass and the ric at the same time as I love them both, but I still have problems with one at a time!

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='599430' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:21 PM']I play basses that I like and that I can afford.
Is that not the beginning and end of the debate?

So the moral of my story is - get the best you can [i]for you[/i] on the budget you have be it £100 or £5,000.[/quote]

Too right - that's it in a nutshell!

This man I like! He spaketh the truth.

Nick

[EdwardMarlowe]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='599446' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:33 PM']You owe it to your audience (if you have one) to only play the best. If they've paid in to see you rock out do you really want them to think you're a band of tight-fisted wierdos, that they've given you money and you've spent it on a new conservatory or a nice cardigan instead of a fancy bass? Hell no! That's not rock 'n' roll. That's not even jazz. They want to see you rock, rock hard and would you cheat them out of that by playing some cheapo piece of crap?

I should hope not.

The audience comes first and that's why I buy expensive basses. Shame on you cheapo lovers, won't you consider somebody other than yourselves for a change?[/quote]

:thu:



99.9% of the average audience don't know a bass from a guitar, and the only people who really give a damn anyhow will be other musicians looking to make themselves feel better by doing down your choice of gear...

[bubinga5]

[quote name='EdwardMarlowe' post='599552' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:02 PM'] :thu:



99.9% of the average audience don't know a bass from a guitar, and the only people who really give a damn anyhow will be other musicians looking to make themselves feel better by doing down your choice of gear...[/quote]
yes your right, but thats not the point... I dont buy expensive instruments for the audience..( and i think i can speak for some others) i like to play higher end basses for me, and the way they feel and sound when i play them...i can get a much better tone (that I, like to hear) out of a higher end bass from the sum of the parts..

it spurs me on to play better, when there is a fantastic tone coming from the instrument..

And ive never come across any musicians/bassist's who put down others gear to make themselves feel better...

Edited September 15, 2009 by bubinga5

[Doddy]

To Ou7shined....So when you bought a new 'better' instrument,you became more inspired to improve your
technique,so you have to practice to improve. The instrument gave you the inspiration to improve,which i said can
happen in an earlier post.

To Gremlin Andy...... You say that you SPECIFICALLY ruled out my argument,but then go on to say that
"given the *SAME* player, that player is UNDESPUTEDLY served better by a better instrument". This is
where my argument lies.I don't think it is undisputed. The player may not necessarily be better served on a better instrument.
Would Jaco have been a better player on a 'boutique' bass than on a stock Fender? No..He'd still play like Jaco.

Once again,I like and own 'Boutique' basses,but I will maintain that ultimately the player is more important than
the instrument.

[Kev]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='599446' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:33 PM']You owe it to your audience (if you have one) to only play the best. If they've paid in to see you rock out do you really want them to think you're a band of tight-fisted wierdos, that they've given you money and you've spent it on a new conservatory or a nice cardigan instead of a fancy bass? Hell no! That's not rock 'n' roll. That's not even jazz. They want to see you rock, rock hard and would you cheat them out of that by playing some cheapo piece of crap?

I should hope not.

The audience comes first and that's why I buy expensive basses. Shame on you cheapo lovers, won't you consider somebody other than yourselves for a change?[/quote]
My apologies, but what a load of bollocks.

If anything, playing a £2k bass is the exact opposite of Rock and Roll.

I do get the feeling your just baiting though, as you surely can't actually believe in what you typed?

[ironside1966]

I find strange that a band has a great instruments and backline and S+-T PA.

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Doddy' post='599583' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:41 PM']To Ou7shined....So when you bought a new 'better' instrument,you became more inspired to improve your
technique,so you have to practice to improve. The instrument gave you the inspiration to improve,which i said can
happen in an earlier post.

To Gremlin Andy...... You say that you SPECIFICALLY ruled out my argument,but then go on to say that
"given the *SAME* player, that player is UNDESPUTEDLY served better by a better instrument". This is
where my argument lies.I don't think it is undisputed. The player may not necessarily be better served on a better instrument.
Would Jaco have been a better player on a 'boutique' bass than on a stock Fender? No..He'd still play like Jaco.

Once again,I like and own 'Boutique' basses,but I will maintain that ultimately the player is more important than
the instrument.[/quote]
yes but a better carpenter he/she will become with sharper tools

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='599589' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:48 PM']yes but a better carpenter he/she will become with sharper tools[/quote]

And you're suggesting that they buy new really expensive tools just because their old ones are a bit dull? No, just sharpen them.

I don't really like this argument because you always get people who complain that their guitar or whatever is holding back their ability which is just not true at all because there are so many people who became amazing players with sh*te gear. The instrument simply does not make the player.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='599446' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:33 PM']You owe it to your audience (if you have one) to only play the best. If they've paid in to see you rock out do you really want them to think you're a band of tight-fisted wierdos, that they've given you money and you've spent it on a new conservatory or a nice cardigan instead of a fancy bass? Hell no! That's not rock 'n' roll. That's not even jazz. They want to see you rock, rock hard and would you cheat them out of that by playing some cheapo piece of crap?

I should hope not.

The audience comes first and that's why I buy expensive basses. Shame on you cheapo lovers, won't you consider somebody other than yourselves for a change?[/quote]

That really is a very odd, completely misguided approach. The only things that matter are doing justice to the songs and performing to the audience the vision of your songwriter and band at it's best. If that can be done with a pole and a dustbin lid, then that's cool with me.

My basses are reasonably expensive because the basses I need to do my work properly and satisfy my own sound, reliablility and performance requirements happen to be that price. I don't mind buying one second hand either. I've played Squiers on stage and the modern Chinese one was pretty poor, the Japanese Silver series was good. My drummer noticed when I started playing a Hohner Pro Jack that the sound was much better, and the Warwicks even more so. I've settled on Warwick as my instrument of choice and I have one fretted and one fretless. I don't need a back up because they are super reliable and I use high quality strings which don't seem to break, even under heavy gig pressure.

I wouldn't play a Wesley because I wouldn't trust it to stand up to punishment or deliver the tone I need. The sound of the OP's might be good for his situation, but will the hardware and electronics and tone stand up to hard, prolonged use and BIG, transparent PAs? Maybe his ears and hands can't tell the difference? Who knows?

Edited September 15, 2009 by silddx

[bubinga5]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='599602' date='Sep 15 2009, 09:03 PM']And you're suggesting that they buy new really expensive tools just because their old ones are a bit dull? No, just sharpen them.

I don't really like this argument because you always get people who complain that their guitar or whatever is holding back their ability which is just not true at all because there are so many people who became amazing players with sh*te gear. The instrument simply does not make the player.[/quote]
I wasnt suggesting anyone should go out and buy an expensive instrument?..upgrading a bass is a great option..i have tricked up basses too..just to a tone i like to hear...

Yes your right, there has been many an amazing bassist who became great from inexpensive gear, but as they grew as musicians, they may have felt that the quality of the instrument needed to get better with them...i can bet most pro's didnt stick with there first budget instrument throughout there career..

each to there own..its what YOU like to hear.

Edited September 15, 2009 by bubinga5

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='599623' date='Sep 15 2009, 09:20 PM']Yes your right, there has been many an amazing bassist who became great from inexpensive gear, but as they grew as musicians, they may have felt that the quality of the instrument needed to get better with them...i can bet most pro's didnt stick with there first budget instrument throughout there career..[/quote]

What i'm saying, is what if they couldn't do that? There was a story on drummerworld who was one of the most amazing jazz drummers this guy had ever heard and yet he played on some flimsy beginner kit with beat up heads and awful hardware. He couldn't just buy a really nice drumkit because he didn't have enough money. Obviously i'm not saying that people shouldn't buy a nice bass if that's what works for them, it's just people should not expect to be able to play or not play an instrument just because of how good or bad quality it is.

[OutToPlayJazz]

In the classical world, once you get past grade 5 you need a better quality, more professional instrument, especially in the orchestral strings department where I come from. Having taught many players, this move invariably inspires them to play more and better.

Perhaps it's less so for electric instruments, but I know that if I have a lovely instrument that I adore the sound of, I'm definitely more inspired to play it, especially when they're working tools of my trade.

I just finished a two week run of the stage show, "Footloose." I played the whole two weeks on Status basses. Yes they're expensive. Yes, I could have done the whole run on a Squire Affinity series. Would I have enjoyed the playing as much? Would it have sounded as good? I doubt it. Obviously, Joe Public just notices the odd looking headless thing that he/she mistakenly thinks is a guitar, but I know the difference in terms of sound, quality and playability. And even though it's a large part of my living, I'm sure my playing standard rises to the occasion of playing something really nice.

Rich.

Edited September 15, 2009 by OutToPlayJazz

[doctor_of_the_bass]

Guys!

Some very interesting debate here and lots of opposing views - please can we chill out just a tad and I know b*llocks is a minor swearword but can we keep the lid on it a bit please!????

Anyway, we are VERY lucky as players to have such a plethora of choice when it comes to basses both cheap and expensive, we should be celebrating this!!

Nick

[Kev]

[quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='599768' date='Sep 15 2009, 11:41 PM']Guys!

Some very interesting debate here and lots of opposing views - please can we chill out just a tad and I know b*llocks is a minor swearword but can we keep the lid on it a bit please!????

Anyway, we are VERY lucky as players to have such a plethora of choice when it comes to basses both cheap and expensive, we should be celebrating this!!

Nick[/quote]
Sorry about that, perhaps 'absolute rubbish' would have been more appropriate

[chris_b]

You can love your cheap basses and get a "great" sound in your bedrooms, but, I play well on a good bass and better on a great bass, and I sound much better on a great bass. I know the audience doesn't know or care about the detail but I do and the guy who gave me the gig does. He will notice how I play, how I sound and how I fit in, and if I can impress him I will get more work. So it's not rocket science, I will use the biggest, bestest bass, amp and cabs I can afford. QED.

Edited September 15, 2009 by chris_b

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='Kev' post='599772' date='Sep 15 2009, 11:46 PM']Sorry about that, perhaps 'absolute rubbish' would have been more appropriate [/quote]

No probs!

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='chris_b' post='599800' date='Sep 16 2009, 12:39 AM']You can love your cheap basses and get a "great" sound in your bedrooms, but, I play well on a good bass and better on a great bass, and I sound much better on a great bass. I know the audience doesn't know or care about the detail but I do and the guy who gave me the gig does. He will notice how I play, how I sound and how I fit in, and if I can impress him I will get more work. So it's not rocket science, I will use the biggest, bestest bass, amp and cabs I can afford. QED.[/quote]

Funny you should say that, one of the musical director's I work with in theatre will actually send me home to fetch it if I turn up without my Vigier!

[GremlinAndy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='599583' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:41 PM']To Ou7shined....So when you bought a new 'better' instrument,you became more inspired to improve your
technique,so you have to practice to improve. The instrument gave you the inspiration to improve,which i said can
happen in an earlier post.

To Gremlin Andy...... You say that you SPECIFICALLY ruled out my argument,but then go on to say that
"given the *SAME* player, that player is UNDESPUTEDLY served better by a better instrument". This is
where my argument lies.I don't think it is undisputed. The player may not necessarily be better served on a better instrument.
Would Jaco have been a better player on a 'boutique' bass than on a stock Fender? No..He'd still play like Jaco.

Once again,I like and own 'Boutique' basses,but I will maintain that ultimately the player is more important than
the instrument.[/quote]

Goddamnit. No-one is disputing that.

but would he sound *equally* good on a 40 quid bass with bad intonation, and warped neck, crappy pots and crackly socket? and here is where I repeat *undisputedly* ...no. Therefore he WOULD be better served by a better instrument.
My argument holds up even when you try to use a silly example involving such a remarkable and unrepresentative (of the readers in this thread) player. (no offence to any players who reckon they *are* at Jacos level)

Nobody said "boutique", they said expensive (re-read the title.) And Jacos bass would have been expensive in it's day (and more so now obviously)

(Apologies for using an equally unrepresentative point there with the £40 bass, but expensive is just 'relative'. )

Edited September 16, 2009 by GremlinAndy

[JimBobTTD]

I play Ibanez basses. I have two 5 strings - the SR705 and SR1205.

I got the SR705 for £150.
I got the SR1205 for £500.

Is the SR1205 three times as good as the SR705? No. Because price has nothing to do with it. I paid under the odds for the SR705 and I would pay twice as much for another SR1205.

If we take out "expensive" and replace it with "high quality" (for that is what expensive suggests, to all intents and purposes), then the answer is more clear. Why buy a high quality bass? Why buy good quality (ie expensive) strings? Why buy decent cables? Why buy a decent amp?

[Doctor J]

[quote name='Kev' post='599587' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:46 PM']My apologies, but what a load of bollocks.

If anything, playing a £2k bass is the exact opposite of Rock and Roll.

I do get the feeling your just baiting though, as you surely can't actually believe in what you typed? [/quote]
I felt it was too obvious to require smilies

[quote name='silddx' post='599617' date='Sep 15 2009, 09:16 PM']That really is a very odd, completely misguided approach. The only things that matter are doing justice to the songs and performing to the audience the vision of your songwriter and band at it's best. If that can be done with a pole and a dustbin lid, then that's cool with me.

My basses are reasonably expensive because the basses I need to do my work properly and satisfy my own sound, reliablility and performance requirements happen to be that price. I don't mind buying one second hand either. I've played Squiers on stage and the modern Chinese one was pretty poor, the Japanese Silver series was good. My drummer noticed when I started playing a Hohner Pro Jack that the sound was much better, and the Warwicks even more so. I've settled on Warwick as my instrument of choice and I have one fretted and one fretless. I don't need a back up because they are super reliable and I use high quality strings which don't seem to break, even under heavy gig pressure.

I wouldn't play a Wesley because I wouldn't trust it to stand up to punishment or deliver the tone I need. The sound of the OP's might be good for his situation, but will the hardware and electronics and tone stand up to hard, prolonged use and BIG, transparent PAs? Maybe his ears and hands can't tell the difference? Who knows?[/quote]

Though clearly I need to re-evaluate

Seriously gents, I can't believe there are seven pages of justification one way or the other on this. Play what you like because you like it, there is no other reason or justification required.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Doctor J

[dave_bass5]

I just pay what i have to to get the bass i want.

Never bothered with what type of wood it has, I doubt i could tell anyway, not interested in the name or make BUT i do need a bass i can feel comfortable playing and sounds good (to my ears anyway).

Ive not read all this thread as im just giving my opinion and thoughts and i guess they dont really matter to anyone other than me.
I do agree with Doody about being inspired by the right bass. Ive had maybe 10 basses all my life but its really only recently that getting a new (and more expensive) bass has made me play a bit better, or at least renewed my enthusiasm.
At the moment im just getting used to my new DJ5 but since having it ive started to play finger style live, never been able to do that before. The reason is the bass just feels right and its helping me improve. The most expensive bass ive ever had is my Fender P5 but this hasnt had the same effect, as good as it is.

[stingrayfan]

Just to stoke the fire some more....

How many of us have bought an expensive 'brand' bass despite the fact that it didn't feel that nice and was a bit heavy to gig with?

I know I have.