Why buy an expensive bass?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Doddy' post='598788' date='Sep 14 2009, 10:27 PM']....I wasn't misrepresenting the discussion, I was refering to this quote....

"As your technique improves you reach a point where your playing allows you to go to the next level of instrument - because that instrument allows you to be more expressive. So again you gravitate to your desired point along the curve, this time governed by skill level rather than the thickness of your wallet.

Although there is the school of thought that says that if you play instruments that are beyond your ability then it forces you to get better so as not to sound like a twat."

[b] Your Instrument has no bearing on your skill level whatsoever,and buying a nice instrument will not force you to improve your abilities.[/b]

As I have said before, I own about 20 Basses,some cheap,some expensive, but I can play all of them comfortably. While the 'boutique' basses
are undoubtedly better quality and more 'fun' to play ,if I wanted to I could do anything on the less expensive basses.[/quote]

The thing is this is EXACTLY what happened to me. I don't see why you have such a problem with it.
When I first got into bass, I had already been a guitarist for many years and when I played bass I thought that I was doing fine on the relatively crappy basses that I had access to because basically I didn't know any better. Then one day I got a bass which was a step up from what I was used to and had a more open sound. When I played it, parts of my sloppy technique that had hitherto been disguised by the cheap basses relatively poor sound reproduction now stood out. I could have gone back to the cheapie bass and carried on scuffing out bass lines that punters wouldn't find offensive but instead I went with the nicer sounding bass and as a result it pushed me to become a better player. And as I developed as a bassist so did my taste in basses and each new bass taught me something new - sometimes nuances in technique other times maybe just inspiration to play a certain way and try out new stuff. Voilà....

.... and the same could be said for amps too. :ph34r:

I guess guys like me just learn as we go along while perhaps other guys maybe get taught everything they need to know from the start. I dunno.

[Pete Academy]

Using the car analogy, I've only ever owned cheap ones, as I see a journey as getting from A to B. If I made a long journey most days, I would be used to driving my Escort, and it would get me there OK. However, if I suddenly bought a Lexus, I would drive exactly the same but the journey would be smoother and therefore more enjoyable. That is, I would appreciate the luxury of the Lexus over the Escort.

I could play my band's current set with a Squier 5, but if I move up to a Roscoe, I would still use the same techniques I've learned over the years, but I would appreciate the luxury of a better-sounding and more versatile bass.

I think it depends what you're used to. Since I was a kid I've progressed through every step in terms of price and quality.

Same with a relationship: you can meet the person of your dreams and be happy without anyone else, or you can forever search for the partner of your dreams.

As Swiss Tony would say, 'Playing a bass is like making love to a beautiful woman...'

[Happy Jack]

Why buy an expensive bass?

Well, all the reasons given on the last few pages I guess.

But why do you think it's "expensive"?

Buy a £300 bass new, then try to sell it a few weeks/months/years later. You'll be very lucky to get £150 back for it. Now [i][b]that's [/b][/i]expensive.

Buy a pre-owned, pre-depreciated £2000 bass, and try the same thing. Assuming you chose sensibly in the first place, chances are you'll at least get your money back. Do it on a rising market and you'll make a handsome profit.

The cheapest bass I ever owned cost me £565 to buy and I sold it for £1200. So owning that "expensive" bass cost me ... erm ... minus £635. During a recession.

Once you've reached the point where you can afford a high-end bass then you should be able to avoid it costing you any significant amount of dosh.

Sometimes, the trusty old car analogy (Lexus -v- Ford) just doesn't work ...

[Killstarz]

Ok, Why buy expensive gear?

well, i buy expensive (for me) gear for a number of reasons.

1 - Cos i can. I have a decent job and earn a decent wage. I try to buy the best stuff no matter what i am doing.

2 - Cos i know the chances of getting high quality gear when spending a good wad of cash is higher than going for a cheaper alternative.

3 - Cos ive always wanted Fender/ampeg. All my favourite bass players use them and ever since i started playing i always wanted to play Fender basses through Ampeg amplification. Now i do and i love it.

4 - Cos i want people to look at my stuff and think 'that's a nice bass/amp, wish i had that'


that is honestly why i buy expensive stuff.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='598943' date='Sep 15 2009, 08:38 AM']Why buy an expensive bass?

Well, all the reasons given on the last few pages I guess.

But why do you think it's "expensive"?

Buy a £300 bass new, then try to sell it a few weeks/months/years later. You'll be very lucky to get £150 back for it. Now [i][b]that's [/b][/i]expensive.

Buy a pre-owned, pre-depreciated £2000 bass, and try the same thing. Assuming you chose sensibly in the first place, chances are you'll at least get your money back. Do it on a rising market and you'll make a handsome profit.

The cheapest bass I ever owned cost me £565 to buy and I sold it for £1200. So owning that "expensive" bass cost me ... erm ... minus £635. During a recession.

Once you've reached the point where you can afford a high-end bass then you should be able to avoid it costing you any significant amount of dosh.

Sometimes, the trusty old car analogy (Lexus -v- Ford) just doesn't work ...[/quote]
This is a good post - calling basses 'expensive' without this kind of analysis is meaningless.

And anyway, one person's 'expensive' is another person's 'bargain'.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Killstarz' post='598959' date='Sep 15 2009, 09:00 AM']Ok, Why buy expensive gear?

well, i buy expensive (for me) gear for a number of reasons.

1 - Cos i can. I have a decent job and earn a decent wage. I try to buy the best stuff no matter what i am doing.

2 - Cos i know the chances of getting high quality gear when spending a good wad of cash is higher than going for a cheaper alternative.

3 - Cos ive always wanted Fender/ampeg. All my favourite bass players use them and ever since i started playing i always wanted to play Fender basses through Ampeg amplification. Now i do and i love it.

4 - Cos i want people to look at my stuff and think 'that's a nice bass/amp, wish i had that'


that is honestly why i buy expensive stuff.[/quote]
Hat's off to you sir for keeping it real.

[Ou7shined]

As for the car analogy, I find it a slightly one dimensional argument. Sure physically A to B is possibly with car X or car Y but these aren't the only factors when making a comparison to a musical performance? Playing bass is not just about starting a song then finishing it.

Would you rather do A to B in my mums Micra with her at the wheel or come for a spin with me in my 350Z. Same journey, different experience in a multitude of aspects.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='599060' date='Sep 15 2009, 11:13 AM']Would you rather do A to B in my mums Micra with her at the wheel or come for a spin with me in my 350Z. Same journey, different experience in a multitude of aspects.[/quote]
Pics required before I can give a definite answer here I'm afraid.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Kev' post='598873' date='Sep 14 2009, 11:52 PM']The comment that should end all arguments. If the bass you picked up in the shop played and sounded better than any other in there, why should the price or brand effect your decision to buy it?

I think the biggest problem is people thinking they have £1000 or w/e to spend on a bass, and so they must spend as much of it as possible. Many of said people never pick up a bass under £200 in the shop with this in mind. And also, i feel that the fact that you [i]want[/i] the 'better' bass to play and sound better, it could overpower what the actual reality is

All my opinion, of course.[/quote]

Very true, a bit like if anyone can remember the start of the year, that woman out of the apprentice who lost the challenge because she was convinced she had to spend as much as possible of the £200 she was given for cleaning equipment.

[quote name='chris_b' post='598863' date='Sep 14 2009, 11:39 PM']You ask, "Why buy an expensive bass?", and then add "Seriously....why bother?” I guess it's difficult to understand why some one can want to drive a Ferrari when you're happy with an Escort.[/quote]

I think that's just it. I think it's pretty unfair to say that people shouldn't bother with expensive basses just because you're happy with a cheap westfield. People value things differently.
Same goes for people who are saying "you're paying a lot more money for not much of an improvement" Well the thing is that you might not think it's a big improvement but if you're a perfectionist about how your bass is, it's the seemingly small things that make all the difference.

Edited September 15, 2009 by EdwardHimself

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='599068' date='Sep 15 2009, 11:19 AM']Pics required before I can give a definite answer here I'm afraid. [/quote]
She's pretty much looks her age these days but everyone always said she looked like [url="http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/9552/epeel.jpg"]Dianna Riggs[/url] in the sixties.

[Killstarz]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='599045' date='Sep 15 2009, 10:59 AM']Hat's off to you sir for keeping it real. [/quote]

It's the truth though. none of this other 'it helps me express my self through my playing' bollocks.

When none bass players (and some bass players) go to a show they expect to see Fender and ampeg. all im doing is enhancing their gig going experience hahahahahahah

[Duarte]

You ask why buy something 'posh' after stating that you have compared your cheapo P-bass with a USA P-bass.

First off, I love P-basses, but would not call a USA P bass posh. If I wanted something to tinker with I'd buy a P-bass (I did, and it was fun) but a real posh bass sounds infinitely more complex, has more clarity, better playability, doesn't look like a generic bass, and won't fall apart after a year of use. A P-bass is a P-bass, yeah the cheaper ones don't sound as good, and the more expensive ones are more reliable, but at the end of the day, a P-bass sounds like a P-bass. Not a bad thing by all means, it's a classic sound that I love.

I wanted the incredible sound of the Bongo with the 4band EQ, 18 volts, neodymium magnets, massive humbuckers, insane looks and superb feel...tell me how to get all these things by tinkering a sh*tty old westfield and I'll do it (don't wanna spend more than £50)

[Kev]

[quote name='Duarte' post='599120' date='Sep 15 2009, 12:20 PM']You ask why buy something 'posh' after stating that you have compared your cheapo P-bass with a USA P-bass.

First off, I love P-basses, but would not call a USA P bass posh. If I wanted something to tinker with I'd buy a P-bass (I did, and it was fun) but a real posh bass sounds infinitely more complex, has more clarity, better playability, doesn't look like a generic bass, and won't fall apart after a year of use. A P-bass is a P-bass, yeah the cheaper ones don't sound as good, and the more expensive ones are more reliable, but at the end of the day, a P-bass sounds like a P-bass. Not a bad thing by all means, it's a classic sound that I love.

I wanted the incredible sound of the Bongo with the 4band EQ, 18 volts, neodymium magnets, massive humbuckers, insane looks and superb feel...tell me how to get all these things by tinkering a sh*tty old westfield and I'll do it (don't wanna spend more than £50)[/quote]


i think your last point might miss the point of the thread, as of course there is not a cheap alternative to a Bongo, but there is to a Sadowsky NYC P bass

[Gust0o]

I think we've missed the point that expense is relative - I have an accountant, who I would consider expensive, but then I'm in the novel position of needing an accountant to help me manage my money.

What's expensive to me is not necessarily expensive to the next man. I would not disparage someone who has saved dutifully to obtain an entry-level instrument, when it's obviously a significant commitment of their resources; nor any less so the chap who was spending c.$9,000 on his prefered instrument.

We're in danger of forumlating some very circular logic here, and infuriating ourselves with it. I don't think the Ferrari example helps - it's very much ingrained in the modern consumer psyche. And, just to ease the circular logic along, what does a Ferrari matter if you can't drive... ah, but it would force to you drive better... ad infitum, ad trolling. I think we owe ourselves a little better, and we might cool our tempers a little.

It is, as so many have said, a matter of personal choice - with the usual cut across of resources, access, etc. Ultimately, as with any consumer decision, we should get what we want (or a compromise thereof), be it "expensive" or otherwise. The better argument might be, in making your decisions, do you actually get the bass you want - or the one you think you should have, acknowledging the influence of brand/prestige and personal circumstances?

I should, on the face of it, be in the position of being an expensive bass buyer. I have a good career and I'm young enough to challenge further; I have a family business which means I'm not reliant on the lottery to pay for pension; yet drive a sh*tty S-reg and spent £120 on my last bass. Horses for courses. I wouldn't expect my own behaviour to necessarily reflect, exactly, on anyone else. We all live our lives in their myriad ways, and reach different outcomes.

[dub]

I've owned a lot of instruments over the years, some cheap, some expensive (from P bass copy to Wal) I always ended up selling them to pay for the next instrument or the rent, and have used a 5 string MM for a good few years now.

I bought a s/h squire jazz for my daughter, it sounds great which got me thinking so, I bought a s/h G+L tribute L2500 as a backup and I am amazed at how well made it is made and how close to an original G+L it sounds.

That said, I got lucky with both of these. If you try some instruments that are apparently the same model, you find out that they sound and play very differently from each other. There are only a few that really shine.
This is true of both expensive and inexpensive instruments, although the standard of expensive instruments is usually higher so the differences are less.

You can of course buy new pickups etc. but if you don't really like an instrument in the first place why buy it? and if it ain't broke..

Of course some expensive instruments are going to have a unique tone with their own special materials, pickup placement and electronics, and if you've got the money it's good to support the people who devote their lives to developing instruments.

But if you don't have much cash it's a good time to buy a cheap instrument. The licensed ones of classic designs (Squire, Tribute etc) seem to be the best of the copies. I reckon you just need to try a lot of them out.

Edited September 15, 2009 by dub

[Duarte]

[quote name='Kev' post='599136' date='Sep 15 2009, 12:35 PM']i think your last point might miss the point of the thread, as of course there is not a cheap alternative to a Bongo, but there is to a Sadowsky NYC P bass [/quote]

Ha, maybe. Although, it's not exactly a cheap bass...and sounds better than a cheap bass.

[wotnwhy]

why bother?

why bother getting out of bed in the morning when you can stay there?

why bother driving when you can walk?

why bother with a varied diet when bread and water will keep you alive?

why bother spending when you can save?

why bother wearing clothes when just covering your privates will do?

why bother being nice when you can be mean?

etc. etc.

all these questions are justified, but would you bother explaining yourself if asked?

[Kev]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='599355' date='Sep 15 2009, 04:07 PM']why bother?

why bother getting out of bed in the morning when you can stay there?[/quote]

To earn money and achieve happiness

[quote]why bother driving when you can walk?[/quote]

Gets you there faster, and looks cooler

[quote]why bother with a varied diet when bread and water will keep you alive?[/quote]

The lack of vitimins in your diet will lead to all kinds of disorders in the near and distant future

[quote]why bother spending when you can save?[/quote]

The thought that the saving will ultimately lead to spending.

[quote]why bother wearing clothes when just covering your privates will do?[/quote]

The horrifying risk of the mysterious homosexual semi.

[quote]why bother being nice when you can be mean?[/quote]

It doesn't get you sex

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Kev' post='599136' date='Sep 15 2009, 12:35 PM']i think your last point might miss the point of the thread, as of course there is not a cheap alternative to a Bongo, but there is to a Sadowsky NYC P bass [/quote]
I'm just wondering, could a G&L trib do Bongo?

On the other hand could a G&L trib be considered cheap? Cheaper than a Bongo yes but 4 times the price of one of these miracle Westfields.

Ugh. At the start of this thread I thought I knew what a cheap bass was and likewise an expensive bass. Now I don't. There's progress for ya.

[Kev]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='599378' date='Sep 15 2009, 04:30 PM']I'm just wondering, could a G&L trib do Bongo?

On the other hand could a G&L trib be considered cheap? Cheaper than a Bongo yes but 4 times the price of one of these miracle Westfields.

Ugh. At the start of this thread I thought I knew what a cheap bass was and likewise an expensive bass. Now I don't. There's progress for ya. [/quote]
Although i have never played a g&l trib, i have never played anything that has got close to a Bongo. If it didn't look the way it did, it would be my dream bass. Awesome bit of wood. The stealth one [i]almost[/i] makes me ignore the toilet shape, but not quite

Edited September 15, 2009 by Kev

[dub]

There's all kinds of cheapness in the s/h world, squire jazz was 100, G+L tribute 300.
Much cheapness

[wotnwhy]

Ha ha! i knew someone would have to answer each of those! ^_^

the point i was making was that a 'why bother' sorta question sorta answers itself

of course a cheap bass can do the trick. i have a lovely custom shuker with fancy woods, great hardware and one-off electronics. i also have a beat up OLP that can do every job i need a bass to do and although the tone can't vary as much as the shuker due to it being passive, it actually does some sounds better, and for some styles actually PLAYS better.

does this mean the shuker was a waste of money and that i was a fool to buy it? not by a long shot.. not by a very, very, very long shot..

money is just money, why NOT buy an expensive bass if you like it??

Edited September 15, 2009 by wotnwhy

[Noisyjon]

I play basses that I like and that I can afford.
Is that not the beginning and end of the debate?

I could've spent some time to find a cracking Westfield that will do me, but I didn't bother as I was looking at the price range of a good used Fender MIA P bass that offered me what I wanted 'out of the box'.
Likewise at the other end of the spectrum I could've looked at Fender Custom Shop/Laklands/Sadowskys/Allevas/etc but they were all out of reach for me finacially so I didn't even bother.

So the moral of my story is - get the best you can [i]for you[/i] on the budget you have be it £100 or £5,000.

[Tinman]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='599401' date='Sep 15 2009, 04:57 PM'].........why NOT buy an expensive bass if you like it??[/quote]

Beat me to it

Just because you can, obviously doesn't mean you necessarily have to but I bought my Shuker because I wanted to, simple as....

Edited September 15, 2009 by Tinman

[Mrs Tinman]

[quote name='Tinman' post='599431' date='Sep 15 2009, 05:22 PM']but I bought my Shuker because I wanted to, simple as.... [/quote]

...only after I'd made you promise to take me on an exotic holiday first!

(joke btw )