Learning to read.

[Dread Bass]

I am currently out of work as i have just finished my MA in Social Work. While I apply for jobs etc i have decided to learn how to read music as a challenge. I am going to try and practice every day. I have a book somewhere and i will up date this thread with a progress report on what im up to.

Any advice or tips? getting a teacher is not an option just now due to lack of funds.

[Dread Bass]

for those interested i will be using this book:

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musicians-Institute-Essential-Concepts-Reading/dp/B00144DX8C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1252713113&sr=8-2"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musicians-Institut...3113&sr=8-2[/url]

the first chapter which i will tackle tomorrow is on: the staff, the bass clef, notes, pitches intervals, accidentals, ledger lines and the bass fretboard.

[BigAlonBass]

It can be a right pain in the bum when you first get started, but personally, I think it's well worth the effort. You can go months without having to read Music, then all of a sudden you get a load of work because you're the only one in the area who can.
It'll probably be all explained in the book, but your Mantra from now on should be:-

(Treble Clef)
Lines:-Every Good Boy Deserves Football (I know it's Favour, but I'm a Geordie!)
Spaces:-FACE

(Bass Clef)
Lines:-Good Boys Deserve Football Always (Same rule as above)
Spaces:-All Cows Eat Grass

Once you can remember that little lot without having to think first, you're half way there.
Good Luck.

[ahpook]

it's something i keep promising myself i'll do, so good luck to you !!!

do let us know how you get on with the book - if it's any cop i might try it myself,.

[SteveO]

[quote name='metaltime' post='596209' date='Sep 12 2009, 01:41 AM']I am currently out of work as i have just finished my MA in Social Work. While I apply for jobs etc i have decided to learn how to read music as a challenge. I am going to try and practice every day. I have a book somewhere and i will up date this thread with a progress report on what im up to.

Any advice or tips? getting a teacher is not an option just now due to lack of funds.[/quote]

I've not seen that book so can't pass comment there, however I think there's 2 aproaches to reading music. the first is the logical aproach of reading the pitch and duration of the note plus any extras such as dynamics then moving onto the next note. The other aproach is you don't really scrutinise each individual note, but rather you read the music that the notes make up. It's the same way as when you read a sentance you don't pay much attention to the individual letters that make up the words. You should concentrate on the first of these to start with, look at the note and work out where it is on the fretboard and how long it lasts, play it then move to the next. After a short while you will memorise the notes (conciously or subconciously) and when you are reading and playing the music at normal speed the reading part will just be jogging your memory as to which notes come next. At the start you will probably be counting the lines under the note, maybe using a memory device such as the one BigAl mentioned to work out the note. Soon you will just look at the note and recognise it without having to count the lines (like recognising a letter without having to look at the shape of it). In my experience the vast majority of musicians will only learn to read to this level (which is not a criticism by the way) They will take a short while to practice a piece slowly before being able to play it at speed, and this level is perfectly good for all but the top jobs in orchestral music. The next step is to learn to sight read, which is where the 2nd approach comes in extremely useful.

I'd advise getting a real beginners book, beginners piano would probably be good as it will cover both clefs. They generally have well known tunes such as '3 blind mice' or 'london brigde is falling down'. Whilst you probably won't use them on stage knowing the tunes as you learn to read them makes it a hell of a lot easier than trying to learn the tune as well as learning how to read the notes. Once you can recognise the notes, reading comes into it's own and learning a tune from the dots becomes a doddle. If you want to progress onto sight reading then this is when you start listeninig to music whilst reading the notes (without an instrument) If you can listen to it then classical music is the best for this as firstly there is a huge volume of cheap scores out there (check out 'dover minature scores' at Amazon) and secondly most classical music is constantly changing with little repetition, so you're learning to read a greater variety of phrases for the same cost in time and effort.

Good luck with it, it's not as hard as many people make out. If it gives you any encouragement my 5 yr old can read music perfectly well and she isn't a prodigy by any stretch of the imagination.

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='SteveO' post='596434' date='Sep 12 2009, 11:31 AM']If it gives you any encouragement my 5 yr old can read music perfectly well and she isn't a prodigy by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote]


That's just depressing.

But excellent, just the same. I really hope she doesn't give up on it later. I did, and it's one of the biggest regrets of my life.

Good luck to metaltime! I'm working my way through this long, slow process too. Practise, practise, practise - you [i]can [/i]do it!

[Dread Bass]

Well i Just completed my first session. I did the first two chapters of the book as most of the content of the first i already understood. The main difficulty I found was getting dotted 8th note rhythms. That took a bit of getting used to but i think I'm getting it. I aim to try and do an hour each day on reading alone. I am also going to work through some general theory to compliment the reading practice.

@BigAl: Thanks that was helpful the book didn't give me a formula to remember the notes so that was useful.

@ahpook: Well if i can get the hang of it then anyone can. I'm also dyslexic so not sure if that will impact or not. We will see. Once i get the fundamentals down your welcome to a lone of the book.

@SteveO: Really helpful post thanks for that. As i mentioned above I'm going to crack on with some theory and the book i have is The complete idiots guide to music theory which i believe is mainly Piano based. Do you think this will be enough of a basis? once i get to the point where i can read read i.e somewhere near the first stage you point out I will defiantly be tackling some classical pieces. I have heard Cello suites are supposed to be useful.

Mods if you feel this should be in theory and technique feel free to move although i think is OK where it is.

[Dread Bass]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='596461' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:02 PM']That's just depressing.

But excellent, just the same. I really hope she doesn't give up on it later. I did, and it's one of the biggest regrets of my life.

Good luck to metaltime! I'm working my way through this long, slow process too. Practise, practise, practise - you [i]can [/i]do it! [/quote]

Thanks for the encouragement. How are you finding it?

[Hot Tub]

[quote name='metaltime' post='596484' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:18 PM']Thanks for the encouragement. How are you finding it?[/quote]


Very slow and painful to begin with, enormously frustrating at times, but as I began to be able to recognise the notes of the staff the whole learning process seemed to get quicker. I make a point of having a bass book or magazine with some transcription in it with me pretty much all the time. If I get a quiet break at work I go through the music and just read out the note names. But that's only part of it. You also need to know where the notes are on the fretboard, and in many cases there are two or more positions in which the same note can be played. For that I'm just following some really simple stuff in the books - play the note and say it's name at the same time. You feel a bit of a plum to start with though!

If it's any help, the book I'm mostly using is Music Reading For Bass by Wendi Hrehovcsik, part of the Musicians Institute Essential Concepts range, published by Hal Leonard, cat. no. HAL00695203. I'm finding it to be very well structured with good excercises which challenge me, but don't frustrate me. I'm currently fighting my way through the jungle of note durations and rest durations, all of which I think are at least as important as knowing the printed notes.

My problem really, is that I have the attention span of a small insect, and so usually end up playing along with stuff again....

[JBassist]

Did Anyone Else Look At The Title of the Thread And Piss Themselfs

[Dread Bass]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='596521' date='Sep 12 2009, 01:13 PM']Very slow and painful to begin with, enormously frustrating at times, but as I began to be able to recognise the notes of the staff the whole learning process seemed to get quicker. I make a point of having a bass book or magazine with some transcription in it with me pretty much all the time. If I get a quiet break at work I go through the music and just read out the note names. But that's only part of it. You also need to know where the notes are on the fretboard, and in many cases there are two or more positions in which the same note can be played. For that I'm just following some really simple stuff in the books - play the note and say it's name at the same time. You feel a bit of a plum to start with though!

If it's any help, the book I'm mostly using is Music Reading For Bass by Wendi Hrehovcsik, part of the Musicians Institute Essential Concepts range, published by Hal Leonard, cat. no. HAL00695203. I'm finding it to be very well structured with good excercises which challenge me, but don't frustrate me. I'm currently fighting my way through the jungle of note durations and rest durations, all of which I think are at least as important as knowing the printed notes.

My problem really, is that I have the attention span of a small insect, and so usually end up playing along with stuff again.... [/quote]

Cool sounds like you are getting there. Like you say its practice, practice, practice.

I am also using Music Reading for Bass by Wendi. So far so good.

[SteveO]

[quote name='metaltime' post='596482' date='Sep 12 2009, 01:17 PM']@SteveO: Really helpful post thanks for that. As i mentioned above I'm going to crack on with some theory and the book i have is The complete idiots guide to music theory which i believe is mainly Piano based. Do you think this will be enough of a basis? once i get to the point where i can read read i.e somewhere near the first stage you point out I will defiantly be tackling some classical pieces. I have heard Cello suites are supposed to be useful.[/quote]

I would treat theory as a seperate entity to reading music... you don't really need to know either to be able to do the other (although reading music helps a lot when it comes to learning theory). To continue the analogy with reading words, it's like the diference between being able to read the newspaper and understanding why 'A tale of two cities' is such a great story. By all means learn both together, but I'd do half an hour concentrating on reading then half an hour concentrating on theory. In about a month you won't be [u]learning[/u] to read any more (because when all's said and done there's not a lot to learn) but you will get better at reading as you practice your instrument or learn the theory from writen music.

When I was talking about reading classical stuff what I meant was that it will develop your sight reading faster to read a piece as you listen to it. Saying that it will also help a lot to read whilst playing too. Not that it is better than other styles of music for any snobbish reasons but because if a riff is repeated throughout the piece then you're only learning to read for the first instance of that riff. Anyway they tend to be a much better mental and physical workout than playing through whole lot o rosie a few times (That reminds me, I must get round to finishing off and posting the other Bach cello arrangements one of these days)

[mrcrow]

[quote name='metaltime' post='596209' date='Sep 12 2009, 12:41 AM']I am currently out of work as i have just finished my MA in Social Work. While I apply for jobs etc i have decided to learn how to read music as a challenge. I am going to try and practice every day. I have a book somewhere and i will up date this thread with a progress report on what im up to.

Any advice or tips? getting a teacher is not an option just now due to lack of funds.[/quote]


i got one of the teach yourself books..to read music..from the library

took me about a year to play and read well

[YouMa]

I can read but am very slow,i learnt with tab so i am very lazy at reading.

[iamapirate]

Whenever I have to learn something i either get given a) a chord chart or a CD a few days before the gig. But i don't play with orchestras or anything like that and if I ever do functions and get given a list of songs to learn, I spotify them and learn from that (and usually make a chord chart). it just seems more natural to work out what they're playing, and then to go ahead and just plain copy it

But obviously, there sometimes scenarios where you're given sheet music the evening before a matinee performance

[doctor_of_the_bass]

In the most simple terms (don't forget I'm from the Fens!!):

1. Get used to working out note length values using one single pitched note. Write down as many combinations of note length values as you can (in four four time!) and practice them until its second nature. Use a drum machine or loop to help you maintain time. Someone has already noted that after a period of time, you will start to `see' note length combinations as phrases and your brain won't have to read them - you will play them as second nature etc

2. Start writing out exercises that contain different note pitches (starting in the key of C Major for example; no sharps or flats) for example, A up to B, again, using various note lengths. Then, write out further exercises, going through all the pitched notes on the stave. Since you are now happy with the note value/rhythmic work, these should now become very easy to read.

3. Write out the Cycle of Fifths and start with a new set of exercises (similar to what you've already done in 2. above) with each Key in the cycle - you've already looked at C major above so start with G major which contains the F# note.
You've already looked at all of the other natural notes in C major so all you need to do here is think to play each F as F# as denoted by the # symbol on the F line. Don't forget that any F you see on the stave is to be played as F # (in this particular key!). Once you've done this for each key, you should have a much better understanding of reading! Don't forget that each key has a relative Natural Minor key (e.g. C major and A minor) so when you are reading, these keys share the same set of notes/accidentals!

ciao!

Nick

[flatwound]

let me know if the book isn't suitable and I will email you a copy of "Music Theory for Dummies",...I have it in .pdf form, and despite the name,... its excellent, it has taught me heaps already. !!
Not sure if that's legal or not, ...but...... I'll still sleep OK.

[endorka]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='596521' date='Sep 12 2009, 01:13 PM']...You also need to know where the notes are on the fretboard, and in many cases there are two or more positions in which the same note can be played.[/quote]

For this reason (and others) I find it helpful to work out a fingering scheme for each piece or exercise to ensure that I am playing it in exactly the same way every time, thus allowing the brain to train itself quicker than it would if you were playing the same exercise a different way every time you played it. It also helps you work out the most effecient fingering and shifting patterns necessary to play the part. Just write the number corresponding to whatever finger you use above each note in this way: 1 (for index) 2(middle) 3(ring) 4(pinky). It may sound trivial but I find it really speeds up the learning process, and is a staple of classical string playing. You'll get to the point where you don't need a number over every note, just the odd one here and there to keep you right.

Jennifer

[Doddy]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='596859' date='Sep 12 2009, 09:51 PM']Whenever I have to learn something i either get given a) a chord chart or a CD a few days before the gig. But i don't play with orchestras or anything like that and if I ever do functions and get given a list of songs to learn, I spotify them and learn from that (and usually make a chord chart). it just seems more natural to work out what they're playing, and then to go ahead and just plain copy it

But obviously, there sometimes scenarios where you're given sheet music the evening before a matinee performance [/quote]

There are also times where I have been given the music minutes before a performance.

It's not always an option to listen to the songs ahead of times and learn them-of course if you do that there are other variables
such as did everyone learn the same version?,In the same key? How are we ending? etc. If you have the dots,you know exactly
how everything goes,because it tells you. That's why a player who can read and groove will always get work.

As far as learning to read,whilst going it alone with a book is great for learning the basics,as with everything else it is better
to get some instruction from someone who will be able to tell you if you are correct-especially when things become trickier.

[Dread Bass]

Well completed today section. I went back over yesterdays exercises which involved 8th notes but all open E. I then moved on to include the first five frets of of the E string with accidentals. I just got up to getting the hang of 8th notes but it is tricky. Tomorrow i will add the first fove frets of the A string and see how i go.

I have felt that my playing has stagnated over the last 6 months so to address this i am going to relearn my scales and chords and try to play different fingerings of things. So far i have relearned:

Pentatonic:
Maj (3 fingerings)
min (3 fingerings)
Maj + min 2 oct

scales:
Maj (3 fingerings) + 2 oct
min (3 fingerings) + 2 oct

triads (all 3 fingerings)
Maj
min
Aug
Dim

7th Chords (all three fingerings) arpeggios
Maj
Dom
min
min b5
dim

I'm working through Intermediate Electric bass by Dave Overthrow.

@ iamapirate: The main reason i am learning is to gain a better understanding of music opposed to practical reasons. I just feel it will give me better understanding of music. But as you rightly pint out there is no use in being good at reading but unable to play to a chart etc. Learning to read is a small part of what I'm practicing just now.

@ Doc of bass: thanks that will be useful once I'm getting the fundamentals down.

@flatwound: Thanks for the offer. I will see how i progress on the book i have and if its not going well i will shoot you a PM

@ Doddy: I know it would be better using a teacher but I will just have to persevere just now.

@ Endorka: thanks i will remember that as i progress sure it will be useful

[Dread Bass]

I'm finding using this thread quite useful as a practice diary so i will keep updating until people get bored.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Now, make sure you get each day's practise timed and signed by your mum for next week...

Seriously though, try applying it with a double bass tutor book. York Studies for double bass or Double Bass solo 1 are good places to start. That way you're not just cramming theory, but applying what you're learning through playing.

Next stage is to find a copy of Fred Paterno's "The Literate Bassist" on amazon or somewhere similar. But most of all, keep at it. It's definitely worth it.

Rich.

[Dread Bass]

Well today i worked on adding the first five frets of the A string. Its starting to get tricky now but with enough practice i will get it. I also learned the modes of the Maj pentatonic scale which was fun.

I also managed to get hold of a copy of Bach for bass so when im getting the hang of reading i can have a crack at that.

@OTPJ: thanks for the recommendations i will keep my eye open for those titles.