Tonewoods

[Tinman]

Does anyone know of a website that extensively covers the properties of tonewood in relation to bass guitars?

Cheers

Pete

[Tinman]

Cheers dlloyd

Edit: The site raises some interesting points for me and explains why my Ibanez basses are so annoyingly bright - too much maple

Edited May 23, 2007 by Tinman

[R,5,R,5...]

Ken Smith's page is very useful too:

[url="http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/woodpagecontents.html"]http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/wo...gecontents.html[/url]

[R,5,R,5...]

Then there is Matt Schmill's wood page at

[url="http://www.fbbcustom.com/"]http://www.fbbcustom.com/[/url] > woods

I don't rate his worksmanship, but he has good knowledge of woods (he is a friend of Ken Smith's).

[Tinman]

[quote name='R,5,R,5...' post='5061' date='May 23 2007, 12:35 PM']Ken Smith's page is very useful too:

[url="http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/woodpagecontents.html"]http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/wo...gecontents.html[/url][/quote]
Thanks fella. It gives me a few ideas for when I see Jon Shuker on Saturday

Edit: So many choices!!! I think I'll just talk to Jon but at least I've got a little more idea now.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Tinman

[R,5,R,5...]

Good luck. A good idea is to think in terms of woods that balance each other out, for example a soft-ish core (eg mahogany) with harder wood facings (eg macassar ebony. By the way, that's going to be my choice when I raise enough money for an Alembic series fretless...

[Tinman]

[quote name='R,5,R,5...' post='5071' date='May 23 2007, 12:52 PM']Good luck. A good idea is to think in terms of woods that balance each other out, for example a soft-ish core (eg mahogany) with harder wood facings (eg macassar ebony. By the way, that's going to be my choice when I raise enough money for an Alembic series fretless...[/quote]

Thanks mate *scuttles off to look up macassar ebony*

I looked at the Alembic site once, scared myself half to death

[Kiwi]

Alan (AGC) does a fantastic maple/wenge combination for his necks. I'm not a fan of the sound of wenge necks by themselves but in moderate amounts they do wonders for maple!

I like the idea of a stiff, absolutely rigid neck being dampened by softer body woods.

[R,5,R,5...]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='5082' date='May 23 2007, 01:12 PM']Alan (AGC) does a fantastic maple/wenge combination for his necks. I'm not a fan of the sound of wenge necks by themselves but in moderate amounts they do wonders for maple!

I like the idea of a stiff, absolutely rigid neck being dampened by softer body woods.[/quote]

That's also a good idea. Same sort of principle. Alembic (them again) also do ebony and maple necks that must be pretty close to graphite in terms of stiffness.

[Alpha-Dave]

[quote name='R,5,R,5...' post='5185' date='May 23 2007, 04:35 PM']Alembic (them again) also do ebony and maple necks that must be pretty close to graphite in terms of stiffness.[/quote]

I'm not sure; the ebony laminate that Alembic use is pretty small for the amount of difference the claim it makes. I'm of the opinion that a wood must make up at least a 3rd of the neck-mass to make a difference, and on an Alembic it can only be 10-15% at most (they are quite thin strips!). The necks that Alan at ACG is making (one for me) that is 50% ebony is more likely to make a difference I think. I would have gone for 100% ebony, but aparently there are stability issues with a 1-piece

Edit: this is the sort of single-laminate I mean, that I'm sure is more cosmetic than they claim: [url="http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_direwolf.html"]http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_direwolf.html[/url]

This one however is more like it! [url="http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_leftisright.html"]http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_leftisright.html[/url]

Edited May 23, 2007 by Alpha-Dave

[R,5,R,5...]

[quote name='Alpha-Dave' post='5194' date='May 23 2007, 04:52 PM']I'm not sure; the ebony laminate that Alembic use is pretty small for the amount of difference the claim it makes. I'm of the opinion that a wood must make up at least a 3rd of the neck-mass to make a difference, and on an Alembic it can only be 10-15% at most (they are quite thin strips!). The necks that Alan at ACG is making (one for me) that is 50% ebony is more likely to make a difference I think. I would have gone for 100% ebony, but aparently there are stability issues with a 1-piece

Edit: this is the sort of single-laminate I mean, that I'm sure is more cosmetic than they claim: [url="http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_direwolf.html"]http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_direwolf.html[/url]

This one however is more like it! [url="http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_leftisright.html"]http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_leftisright.html[/url][/quote]

Here is an even better example -- I think we may be over 50%, certainly in terms of mass!

Edited May 23, 2007 by R,5,R,5...

[DaBassMonsta]

[quote name='Tinman' post='5057' date='May 23 2007, 11:29 AM']The site raises some interesting points for me and explains why my Ibanez basses are so annoyingly bright - too much maple[/quote]
It's because the oaks are too lofty, grabbing up all the light, allegedly.

[Tinman]

[quote name='BlueBear' post='5284' date='May 23 2007, 07:06 PM']It's because the oaks are too lofty, grabbing up all the light, allegedly.[/quote]

I expect that would make sense if I actually understood what you were talking about

[Kiwi]

Well, my Alembic Elan 6 had ebony facings and ebony laminates and still managed to sound dark despite having a maple core!! There's so much to be said for maple as a neck material in terms of its tonal characteristics but it can't be swamped with other woods.

Don't get me wrong, I love graphite to bits and it will beat maple hands down in terms of attack and sustain but in terms of matching it to a suitable body wood, its a finer balance to achieve. I would LOVE for someone to make a graphite necked bass with a bubinga or wenge body, I reckon it would be an awesome instrument.

[Alpha-Dave]

Good call R5, I hadn't seen that one.

CK: I can see where you're coming from and with a pair of single coils, or 'buckers in parallel you may be right, but stick a pair of high output EMGs on there and it might as well be made of plastic and cork because it'll sounds like any other with those p'ups (ok maybe not that extreme, but you get the gist ...)

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Alpha-Dave' post='5319' date='May 23 2007, 08:30 PM']CK: I can see where you're coming from and with a pair of single coils, or 'buckers in parallel you may be right, but stick a pair of high output EMGs on there and it might as well be made of plastic and cork because it'll sounds like any other with those p'ups (ok maybe not that extreme, but you get the gist ...)[/quote]
LOL, you don't sound like you're a fan of EMG's

[quote name='BeLow' post='5325' date='May 23 2007, 08:53 PM']CK's experience with his dark sounding ebony maple Alembic bass just reminds me that although I have started to get a feel for bass construction, I am a long way from knowing it all.[/quote]
Just turn up to a bassbash and have a thrash . You can test stuff out - like comparing jazz basses, or neck laminates or pickups. I've found talking to luthiers who have experimented really helps clarify the folklore from fact. LIke Rob Green was the first luthier who said to me don't believe all the bollocks about tonewood characteristics. You can find that sometimes different woods will give similar characteristics if they have similar qualities.

To my mind, that makes manufacturers such as Ken Smith or Ernie Ball who can maintain consistency despite often unseen variables in tone wood characteristics that much worthy of respect (at least in terms of their materials choices).

[Guest]

Today i got an email from Warmoth, finally my neck is ready
The decision process when buying a neck is hard, the process i went through went like this, first off the body i had was walnut now the warmoth site describes it as at the warmer end of the tone spectrum. Working with it it's hard and when struck it sounds 'fast' .For this reason i went for solid rosewood with a ziricote fingerboard (described as sounding similar to rosewood). Hopefully i will have a bass that's warm but with plenty of punch and a smooth top end, not really a scientific process ,i just thought some woods might give me what I want sound wise. Together with a pair of darkstars and a yet to be decided preamp should be a corker, BUT i still feel the choice of pickups and preamp may be more important choices within reason

[Alpha-Dave]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='5329' date='May 23 2007, 08:58 PM']LOL, you don't sound like you're a fan of EMG's [/quote]

Yes and no, I think they do their job perfectly, but I think their job is to have a high out put to noise ratio, and I think that a lot of the acoustic subtleties of an instrument are lost in that process (as it is even when wiring coils in serise or parallel).

Concerning materials variation, I asked the guys at overwater why they didn't use computer modeling to find the best resonance and combination of materials for the ultimate bass, they said that it's impossible because the materials vary so much from tree to tree, the best example being an acoustic guitar manufacturer who makes dozens of sound boards that look identical, then goes along the line tapping them to select the absolutly best and most resonant for the top-end models.

[Bushmaster]

[quote name='Tinman' post='5301' date='May 23 2007, 07:52 PM']I expect that would make sense if I actually understood what you were talking about [/quote]

It's a quote from Rush's "The Trees" ([i]Hemispheres[/i], 1979).

[Waldo]

My tonewood of choice is graphite

[DaBassMonsta]

[quote name='Tinman' post='5301' date='May 23 2007, 06:52 PM']I expect that would make sense if I actually understood what you were talking about [/quote]
Good point, I have a bad habit of being confusing.

[quote name='Bushmaster' post='5835' date='May 24 2007, 03:56 PM']It's a quote from Rush's "The Trees" ([i]Hemispheres[/i], 1979).[/quote]
That's the badger.

[simon73]

Thats one of the best explanations I have seen explaining different tone. Now saved to my favorites as it will be a really helpfull little tool.




[url="http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfm"]http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfm[/url]

Edited May 24, 2007 by simon73