Bass setup for giging

[hitchy64]

Hello fellow bassmasters,
In a gig situation do you just use your amps for sound or do you mic up a smaller amp/combo and put it through your PA. My Ashdown combo has a 'Tuner/Line' output socket, can I plug a line in here and plug into a PA and just use my Ashdown as a backline or shall I have to get a bigger amp setup?
I need some help here to understand the best way to go about setting up my rig.
Cheers Hitchy

[EssentialTension]

Which Ashdown combo is it? Some of them have a DI out. If it has that you use that.

Edited September 19, 2009 by EssentialTension

[LukeFRC]

big venues I have played have done

bass - di box to desk - amp
and then miced the amp so they have two signals.

smaller places just taken the DI out before the amp.

flaw with using just your amp is it increases the on stage volume which is never normally a good thing

[hitchy64]

It's an Electric Blue 180, yes it has a DI output. I was told this was for recording and once conected no sound would emit from the speaker.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='603036' date='Sep 19 2009, 06:04 PM']It's an Electric Blue 180, yes it has a DI output. I was told this was for recording and once conected no sound would emit from the speaker.[/quote]
I don't think that's correct.

From the Ashdown website:

[quote]a front panel-mounted balanced DI output for connection to a PA or recording console[/quote]

Edited September 19, 2009 by EssentialTension

[Les]

No matter what size gig we do, everything goes through the PA. I use the DI output on my Trace Elliot.

Think you've been given duff info about your DI output disabling the speaker, easy to check though.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='603022' date='Sep 19 2009, 05:19 PM']My Ashdown combo has a 'Tuner/Line' output socket, can I plug a line in here and plug into a PA[/quote]
The tuner/line output is probably not suitable for a DI to the PA due to wrong impedance and being unbalanced. I think you'd use that either for a tuner or to slave up another amp.

[The Funk]

I always take my own DI. Use your amp so you can hear yourself on stage and let the PA deal with the sound outfront.

[clauster]

Another Ashdown EB180 user here.

The DI doesn't cut the speaker, but turning down the master gain does.

TBH I'm not a great fan of the combo sound, but the DI out from the head though a decent PA sounds glorious IMO.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='603036' date='Sep 19 2009, 06:04 PM']It's an Electric Blue 180, yes it has a DI output. I was told this was for recording and once conected no sound would emit from the speaker.[/quote]

Another Ex EB user here as well.
I used a EB 180 C-115 for over a year. No problem using the DI out AND getting sound out of the speakers.

Edited September 19, 2009 by dave_bass5

[Cat Burrito]

I mic my amp up. One thing which amazes me about this site is that nobody ever mentions kit shares. I find with bass all too often there is a house backline or a kit share which prevents me from using my own gear. Granted, I could always take my own amp but as bass amps aren't the lightest I tend to go with that arrangement

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='603229' date='Sep 19 2009, 11:53 PM']I mic my amp up. One thing which amazes me about this site is that nobody ever mentions kit shares. I find with bass all too often there is a house backline or a kit share which prevents me from using my own gear. Granted, I could always take my own amp but as bass amps aren't the lightest I tend to go with that arrangement[/quote]

There has been quite a few threads on kit sharing IIR.

We do functions, weddings etc so we never have to share. That why I never talk about it ;-)

[TimR]

If your PA has subs fine, otherwise don't bother. Learn to use the EQ on your amp and work out best positioning for your cab. ie In a corner as close to a back wall as possible. Depending on what type of music and the size of venue 180 watts should be ok for less than 100 people, any more than that and I think you will struggle.

You can take a line out from your amp to the PA, just make sure you plug into a line-in input on the PA as opposed to a mic level input. If you have a PA with balanced mic inputs ie 3pin XLR then use the DI.

We always put our guitarist through the PA by taking an output from his amp effects send jack to a line in on the PA. This means we can control his stage level and room level much better.

Edited September 19, 2009 by TimR

[dave_bass5]

Actually i beleive the 180watts can only be achived with an extra cab. Its more like 120 watts i think. And even that would be pushing the amp to distortion.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='TimR' post='603236' date='Sep 20 2009, 12:07 AM']If your PA has subs fine, otherwise don't bother. Learn to use the EQ on your amp and work out best positioning for your cab. ie In a corner as close to a back wall as possible. Depending on what type of music and the size of venue 180 watts should be ok for less than 100 people, any more than that and I think you will struggle.

You can take a line out from your amp to the PA, just make sure you plug into a line-in input on the PA as opposed to a mic level input. If you have a PA with balanced mic inputs ie 3pin XLR then use the DI.

We always put our guitarist through the PA by taking an output from his amp effects send jack to a line in on the PA. This means we can control his stage level and room level much better.[/quote]

While bass straight from a DI sounds fine I don't think I would for electric guitar.
I find mic the cab will sound better, you can use some kind of power soak to get the volume down yet still push the valves.

[TimR]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='603264' date='Sep 20 2009, 12:51 AM']While bass straight from a DI sounds fine I don't think I would for electric guitar.
I find mic the cab will sound better, you can use some kind of power soak to get the volume down yet still push the valves.[/quote]

Normally I would agree, but our guitarist uses a very clean Vox amp. All of his modelling effects are from a digitech multi FX unit and we get an amazing sound just from that set up. I've even done some recording direct from his fx out.

[thisnameistaken]

I always DI before the amp, I use my amp as a monitor, try to keep the level down. And try to get friendly with the sound guy so he doesn't just turn me into inaudible rock-EQd mush.

It's weird, most guys I come across want to cut my mids out totally, regardless of what they're getting through the DI. I'm holding a Thumb bass, I might quite like to occupy the mids! I think it's because they're used to mixing rock bands and they don't give a sh*t what the mix sounds like so long as they've got an uncomfortable volume level. It's always really hard to convince FoH guys to just turn it down a bit and not EQ the living sh*t out of everything.

[OldGit]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='603022' date='Sep 19 2009, 05:19 PM']Hello fellow bassmasters,
In a gig situation do you just use your amps for sound or do you mic up a smaller amp/combo and put it through your PA. My Ashdown combo has a 'Tuner/Line' output socket, can I plug a line in here and plug into a PA and just use my Ashdown as a backline or shall I have to get a bigger amp setup?
I need some help here to understand the best way to go about setting up my rig.
Cheers Hitchy[/quote]

What size and type of PA are you talking about?

[The Funk]

[quote name='TimR' post='603278' date='Sep 20 2009, 01:24 AM']Normally I would agree, but our guitarist uses a very clean Vox amp. All of his modelling effects are from a digitech multi FX unit and we get an amazing sound just from that set up. I've even done some recording direct from his fx out.[/quote]

If there's already speaker modelling from his multi-FX, then there's no reason why it can't go directly into the PA like that.

[hitchy64]

[quote name='OldGit' post='603296' date='Sep 20 2009, 02:40 AM']What size and type of PA are you talking about?[/quote]
We have'nt got a PA of our own yet, but the place we rehearse has a PA setup. Only the singer has used it, I don't know what make or spec it is. I must pay more attention!!
We are not gigging yet, but are getting close

[Apex]

Getting a good, balanced FOH sound using just on-stage amps is difficult and seems to require considerable experience and discipline from the whole band. We have neither!

On top of that the ability to hear one another across the stage can be difficult to achieve without monitors, and that requires some PA routing (or possibly a very comprehensive back line?!).

You say you don't have a PA yet. Venue kit will be very varied and you may have to use it from time to time, but a note of caution of you are getting your own (which I would recommend if you can). We bought a second-hand Behringer desk off fleabay. Comprehensive, but with everything but the drums going through it we had a serious problem with stability. everything set up and balanced nicely, next thing a mic or the keyboard has dropped out. We didn't know whether this was a fault in the desk or some other problem, and everyone would tell us different things - PA for mics only - don't use it for the bass - use it for everything...

In the end we sought advice from Behringer (who were very helpful) and in consequence bought an extra power amp. Problem solved, sound balance good, monitoring good, happy band and happy sound man!

[OldGit]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='603417' date='Sep 20 2009, 11:06 AM']We have'nt got a PA of our own yet, but the place we rehearse has a PA setup. Only the singer has used it, I don't know what make or spec it is. I must pay more attention!!
We are not gigging yet, but are getting close [/quote]


Ah Ok
Well it depends ..

If I was you I'd make absolutely sure you can hear yourself Ok when your band is going for it. Worry about that at this point.
If you play somewhere with a big PA where the backline goes through it they will be well setup to get your bass into the PA - either via a DI box or the DI from your amp. IME PA people would much rather use a send from one of their DI boxes than the DI from your amp which may be dodgy, or at least an unknown quantity.

If you have to be involved in the PA buying decisions/payment for your own band then that is another thing entirely with about 30,000 variables and needs a thread of its own.

A band starting out playing original stuff will probably do a fair few gigs using whatever is provided for the 30 minute slot on a shared bill.
You plug your bass into whatever is supplied by the venue or lent to you by other bands.
The important part there is learning how not to upset the PA person or the owner of the gear (see multiple threads passim). If that's the situation you have no need to worry about how the sound gets to the front of house, it will just happen.

Once you get to playing your own gigs and arranging your own PA the amount of bass you can, and should, put through the PA front of house and monitors varies again.

People will tell you that a Small venue mixer amp with 2 1x12 speakers on sticks for FoH and a few monitors will not take any bass in it, or bass drums, or all the backline without harmng the vocals. However that's what we do, very sucessfully. True most of my bass in the venue comes from my super clear backline, but some of the bass guitar mids go into our small FoH speakers to throw the sound to the back of the room at head height. Same with the bass drum. That way I can be less loud on stage.
That does take some practice, a subtle touch on the knobs and good amount of agreement between band members. Explaining to the vocalist that a touch of bass in "his vocal PA" will not make his vocals distort may be hard ...

So ..... Don't jump to fast into DI-ing your bass unless you are playing big PA gigs of your own from the start. (If you are can you tell us the secret )

[OldGit]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='603238' date='Sep 20 2009, 12:14 AM']Actually i beleive the 180watts can only be achived with an extra cab. Its more like 120 watts i think. And even that would be pushing the amp to distortion.[/quote]


120 watts is not enough to survive realistically with a band with a normal drummer and a few guitarists in a club or pub.

So I'd say your first step is to add an extension speaker cab to get the full 180 watts and to shift more air (and look cooler) or upgrade to 300+ watts as a minimum.

Ideally you want to run your amp nowhere near flat out or you get into (non optional) distortion and stuff.

Edited September 20, 2009 by OldGit

[hitchy64]

[quote name='OldGit' post='603534' date='Sep 20 2009, 01:12 PM']120 watts is not enough to survive realistically with a band with a normal drummer and a few guitarists in a club or pub.

So I'd say your first step is to add an extension speaker cab to get the full 180 watts and to shift more air (and look cooler) or upgrade to 300+ watts as a minimum.

Ideally you want to run your amp nowhere near flat out or you get into (non optional) distortion and stuff.[/quote]
On it's own my EB is not enough, the owner of our rehearsal barn says I can use his 4x10 cab so I never have to use my combo past half volume anyway
Cheers for all the advice guys, it's much appreciated.

[OldGit]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='603637' date='Sep 20 2009, 03:50 PM']On it's own my EB is not enough, the owner of our rehearsal barn says I can use his 4x10 cab so I never have to use my combo past half volume anyway
Cheers for all the advice guys, it's much appreciated.[/quote]


You are welcome.
You may find a gig different to a rehearsal studio though. A pub full of people absorbs a lot of bass and, worse, the people themselves make a lot of noise .
Try your combo and an extension and see how it goes ..