Opinions on Custom Shop Fenders please

[Sibob]

Hey guys!

I'm potentially going to pull the trigger on something! If you saw my post in this forum about a particular Jazz bass, you have a good idea!

Anyway, I've never played one.....a custom shop that is. I'm more than happy with my 2003 US standard jazz and my 1973 jazz. So, I want your opinions on Custom Shop basses.

Anyone who is just going to say "go Lakland" or "go Sadowsky", please only do so if you've either owned a Custom Shop or have played one extensively

Funx
Si

[chris_b]

Overpriced!

[Sibob]

Thanks :snob:

anyone else?
Si

[thisnameistaken]

I don't have any experience of custom shop Fenders, but I am curious: What exactly is it you're after, over and above your existing Fenders? Is it a tone thing, or a feel thing, or...?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='613511' date='Oct 1 2009, 03:50 AM']I don't have any experience of custom shop Fenders, but I am curious: What exactly is it you're after, over and above your existing Fenders? Is it a tone thing, or a feel thing, or...?[/quote]
+1.. I'm intrigued, too.

FWIW, I've played a few. A few were VERY nice, but a couple were dogs... for the money.

Unless you're prepared to take a chance, play them first!

[bh2]

PMT in Oxford had (has) a very nice limpy white one... tried it and was impressed. £1200 though but me old skip from the briney.

[lozbass]

I've only owned a Masterbuilt - they're hand-built by one 'Masterbuilder' in the Custom Shop rather than 'team-built', but I can offer an opinion based on that. It was a Jazz fretless, based on a '64 NOS (but 2TS and an ebony, unlined board). It was absolutely beautifully constructed with superb attention to detail, excellent timbers and a fabulous nitro finish. It was the equal in terms of craft work and finishing to some very high-end boutique instruments (I've had a couple of Sei Jazzes and have played countless other super Js). Playability was excellent and the tone was what you'd expect. The neck was super-slender and general build and feel was lovely: I wouldn't have sold the bass if I thought I'd any chance of ever being able to play it without embarrassment. There are photographs in the marketplace section here - the bass was sold around 2-3 months ago - it's worth a look, though my photography can't do the instrument justice. Based on my experience, I wouldn't have any problem with a CS - I do, however, think they're over-priced given the alternatives.

[OldGit]

I don't qualify on the playing experience but ....
We've seen a few fake CS Fenders come by on ebay so make sure it's a real one...
Also, although I appreciate BIN aspect of GAS in action, there is a very interesting new Shuker just about to arrive that may be of interest to someone looking at a CS Jazz ....

[BassBod]

I've tried a few over the years, not extensively and never owned one. The Pino Pbass was very nice, but it was a good authentic Pbass copy painted a funky colour with rusty bits. I think you've got to try the bass out, check out the feel and the sound and don't take much notice of the custom shop marketing. If you like it and can use it, good.

I must have played 5 or 6 CS basses of various sorts, and I would've bought maybe 2 of those, but only if they came up secondhand at a major reduction of their original retail price. By contast I've owned two Bravewoods and would happily own another if I could find one.

[sshorepunk]

I had a CS Jazz a few years back, it was a team built bass, very nice neck, probably one of the best 4 string necks I've wrapped my hands around. Very well built, but given the custom options from just UK luthiers, I wouldn't go that route again (I am a sei bass owner)
It's a well built stock jazz at the end of the day, you'll find a US deluxe that sounds and feels as good if you shop around

Tony

[ezbass]

Played my first custom shop yesterday, a Reggie Hamilton 5. Easily the best 5 neck I've ever played and I had just tried a Lakland 5 which are reckoned to be something very special and I found the Fender much better suited to my hands. But these puppies are well expensive, although compared to US Laklands, Sadowskys, etc not too bad I guess.

[Sibob]

Ok so, perhaps a bit of context is needed!
I'm very happy with my US Jazz and my '73 Jazz, but I saw this bass below and just fell in love with the spec. You can't get this colour etc as a standard Fender model. I know a lot of people don't get on with Fender's, but I really dig the brand, I dig the history and so a CS is just another step towards a nice collection I guess. Great basses are great basses, regardless of what's on the headstock...I know that, but for me, there's something about having Fender on there .

[i](Disclaimer - I am also GASing for a Levinson Blade jazz.....so i'm not completely lost lol)[/i]

The spec would be the same as this masterbuilt, just team built:

[url="http://img139.imageshack.us/i/03fenderjazzbasssonicbl.jpg/"][/url]

It would be built from new, I wouldn't be paying retail, in fact a new Sadowsky metro would be more expensive for me.

New opinions?
Si

[OldGit]

[quote name='Sibob' post='613706' date='Oct 1 2009, 11:49 AM']Ok so, perhaps a bit of context is needed!
The spec would be the same as this masterbuilt, just team built:

[url="http://img139.imageshack.us/i/03fenderjazzbasssonicbl.jpg/"][/url]

It would be built from new, I wouldn't be paying retail, in fact a new Sadowsky metro would be more expensive for me.

New opinions?
Si[/quote]


Depends on the discount, really.

[Sibob]

[quote name='OldGit' post='613709' date='Oct 1 2009, 11:52 AM']Depends on the discount, really.[/quote]

[quote name='Sibob' post='613706' date='Oct 1 2009, 11:49 AM']...a new Sadowsky metro would be more expensive for me.[/quote]

[EdwardMarlowe]

Compared to buying from equivalent alternatives, the Fender CS products don't seem to be overpriced to me. There is a whole other debate to be had as to whether the CS basses and equivalent non-Fender alternatives are overpriced [i]as compared to basses in general[/i] at the next price band don - the old law of diminishing returns rears its head again. That's a different thing, to my mind. One ting fender does offer over the competition [i]is[/i] the brand. Personally, I don't care much for some of the opinions I've read elsewhere online to the effect that "Fender has a traidtion of rock and roll unlike these Asian guitars built by people who aren't even musicians" blah blah blah... [i]As an instrument[/i], to me it doesn't matter, Fender or no, if all else is good. That said, I'm realistic enough about money that I would find it hard to ever rule out selling any particular instrument, so resale potential is always going to be part of the package for me. The reality is that it will always be easier, IMO, to sell on a Fender CS for more of your original outlay than it will any other brands, especially smaller-scale luthieras, no matter how good the instrument.

FWIW, I also have a bit of a hunch that just perhaps you get more [i]bass[/i] for your money paying £2K for a Fender-type than for something at the same price where more of the budget has gone on primarily cosmetic elements such as fancy woodfigured tops, fancy inlays, and so on.

All talk of price aside, I find the CS Fenders really impressive, beautiful instruments, and yes, I believe a step up from the production line equivalent. money no object, I'd jump at the chance of owning one. In the interests of full disclosure, though, I should also add that I am a lefty, so part of my consideration in whether the extra price was worth it would inevitably be the value I would see in having choices that may otherwise not be open to me, such as a maple board, full choice of colours, etc.....

[lozbass]

The Masterbuilt Jazz (sonic blue) in the photograph is just gorgeous - I thought long and hard about coughing up to Rumbleseat for it. In the end, I don't think the price is justified given the history. If you can bring something similar in for less than the price of a Metro, I'd be really tempted. Bear in mind, it could be crap - not all the CS basses I've seen or played have been great (some have been very ordinary indeed - I should have mentioned this in my last post). I don't think there are many basses that look more cool than a sonic blue Fender Jazz (with MHS and early '60s tuners) - for the money though, I'd want something guaranteed to play extremely well

[Sibob]

This is the only thing that slightly worries me.....is ordering blind.
I have a mate who ordered two CS strats and loved both of them, I'd hate to go to this effort for something that is a bit average. I'm not expecting it to be the bass to end all basses, to be the holy grail.....it's a tool. But I would expect a step up from my US standard in fit, feel and finish.

Hmmmm
I guess there is the resale element if it doesn't live upto expectations.....it is the only way, after all, to get this spec bass as a Fender.

Si

[lozbass]

I don't know exactly what you'd need to pay for the bass as spec'd but I think that you'd be looking at a decent resale value if the bass didn't live up to expectations. I think too that you could expect a step-up from standard in all the dimensions listed (though there's always a risk). Whatever the outcome, the bass should look as cool as.....

One thing you might want to bear in mind is currency fluctuations - no guarantees but the £ is looking weak (and could get more so) - maybe order soon at a fixed price?

If you're feeling seriously flush, there's an Alleva in sonic blue on Talkbass - it's a very high spec model with some extremely desirable features (from a currently much in demand builder). I had a couple of pops but gave up. Just over £3k could get it into the UK (and I think you'd be guaranteed a very spectacular instrument).

[wateroftyne]

If you do go for it, get lollipop tuners.

[Beedster]

Si
See my post about the Fender 09 series in my current for sale thread, especially the comparison with FCS and Sadowsky. I've owned five FCS basses and none have ever really done it for me. I hear a lot of people say great things about them, but I guess on such a subjective issue playing first is the only sensible decision. I know of at least one BC member who had a shocking time with a FCS Jazz, was mightily f**ked around by them and eventually sold it at a considerable loss.
All the best
Chris

[lozbass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='613913' date='Oct 1 2009, 03:48 PM']If you do go for it, get lollipop tuners. [/quote]

Oh yes! and dots, bound and MHS to complete the '66 look (I'm getting a little too excited here...)

[lozbass]

[quote name='Beedster' post='613935' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:12 PM']I know of at least one BC member who had a shocking time with a FCS Jazz, was mightily f**ked around by them[/quote]
The guy that originally spec'd the Masterbuilt that came to me had a very bad experience - the bass didn't arrive as he'd ordered it and when the corrections were effected, Fender conspired to mess up the finish by screwing the ashtrays on too tightly (hence cracking the lacquer)...so the story goes...

[RhysP]

Stupidly overpriced IMO.
I've never really got the "Masterbuilt" thing with Fender, as they're basically wooden Meccano kits. OK, so you'd (supposedly) be getting better woods than a standard USA Fender, but there's not that much BUILDING goes into a Fender - certainly not in the same league of craftsmanship as an archtop hollowbody instrument or whatever.
At the end of the day it's just two lumps of wood screwed together. The neck & body will still be cut by a machine, it's just having a bit more time taken over it in the finish & set-up.

[Sibob]

So i suppose this is another point of contention.
How are CS & MB basses actually built? using CNC, or by hand?

Using the same 'Meccano' way of thinking, as an example surely an Alleva Coppola isn't worth £4000 for just being bolted together!? (neck through's ignored ), hand built or not.

Beedster - What was it about the CS's that didn't quite do it for you?

Si

[Beedster]

[quote name='Sibob' post='614023' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:30 PM']Beedster - What was it about the CS's that didn't quite do it for you?

Si[/quote]


Simples: I expected so much more from instruments in that price range.

OK, I might not be a good enough or sufficiently experienced player to benefit from the higher priced instruments (I've said the same about Sadowskys), perhaps in the same way perhaps that I probably wouldn't be able to drive a Maserati any faster than my Audi. However, that aside, when having paid £2000+ for a CS bass and you are confronted by the usual poor Fender QC (pockets mms wider than heels, frets that need work from the factory, strings that don't line up well with the neck), and given all this it still doesn't sound a whole lot better than an MIA, you have to wonder whether you are buying a better built instrument than factory or simply one that suffers from all the usual Fender woes but with slightly more time spent developing them.

In a truly blind test I'd sincerely doubt that more than a tiny percentage of players would be able to distinguish a CS from a good stock MIA, especially the recent MIAs (large quantities of bias due to the fact that I'm currently selling a recent MIA acknowledged).

Si, bottom line is you won't know until you try and no amount of other people's experience can ever - or perhaps should ever - make the decision for you. I'd play as many as you can, perhaps ask anyone who owns one to take it to the upcoming bash?

Chris

Edited October 1, 2009 by Beedster