Was our 'gig etiquette' really that bad?

[Musky]

Interesting that so many people don't consider heads to be part of the backline (at least for purposes of kit sharing). I've never come across this before and I've got to admit that if a venue or band said they were providing backline I'd assume this meant both the amp and cab.

[tonybassplayer]

[quote name='Musky' post='615862' date='Oct 3 2009, 05:12 PM']Interesting that so many people don't consider heads to be part of the backline (at least for purposes of kit sharing). I've never come across this before and I've got to admit that if a venue or band said they were providing backline I'd assume this meant both the amp and cab.[/quote]


+1

In my limited experience of multiple bands playing ( charity gigs etc ) and being told "backline is provided" I have always found it to be that drums, amps, cabs etc are all provided with most drummers ( but not all ) taking their own snare, kick pedal, sticks and cymbals to give them that "familiar" feel

Tony

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Musky' post='615862' date='Oct 3 2009, 05:12 PM']Interesting that so many people don't consider heads to be part of the backline (at least for purposes of kit sharing). I've never come across this before and I've got to admit that if a venue or band said they were providing backline I'd assume this meant both the amp and cab.[/quote]

Me too. This divergence of understanding reinforces the need for clear comms.

[MB1]

MB1.
Im Very much a "Run What you brung" type a guy!....if you bring Nowt?...Expect to shout!

[lanark]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='615626' date='Oct 3 2009, 12:17 PM']Fair enough. I've never had a head that couldn't cope with having no cab connected. It's probably a good thing -- I'd have killed a fair few of my own by now if I had. [/quote]

It sounds like a huge design flaw to be destroyed rather than simply cut out if turned on with no amp. It can happen accidentally in *so* many different ways, from someone not knowing what they're doing, to a cable being pulled out by accident.

[Wil]

It is a flaw, yep. That's marshalls for you! Great sound but flakey design.

[Tengu]

Whenever I have been on a multiple bill I have made a point of getting the number of the guy in the other band/s that deals with their technical stuff. That tends to be the bassist, naturally.

I tell them what we have available to bring and ask what they are providing. I don't like turning up not knowing what we will be using.

I also think it is odd that some consider backline not to include the head. Surely if you are providing both wouldn't you have connected it all properly when you did your sound check? Why would anyone else need to muck around with cables?

[ase_one23]

my policy is, if you're using someone else's gear, ALWAYS find the guy who's gear your using, introduce yourself, confirm that it's ok, offer him a pint. if he says no thanks to the pint, if you see him drinking later on, buy him one anyway.

[Wil]

[quote name='Tengu' post='616616' date='Oct 4 2009, 05:02 PM']I also think it is odd that some consider backline not to include the head. Surely if you are providing both wouldn't you have connected it all properly when you did your sound check? Why would anyone else need to muck around with cables?[/quote]

This is a fine theory, until you introduce the universal constant - at least one and most likely a large portion of the bands you might encounter on a tour will be comprised of either:

a) teenagers
b ) f***wits
c) both.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Wil

[ase_one23]

[quote name='Wil' post='616772' date='Oct 4 2009, 07:50 PM']This is a fine theory, until you introduce the universal constant - at least one and most likely a large portion of the bands you might encounter on a tour will be comprised of either:

a) teenagers
b ) f***wits
c) both.[/quote]


which is why i have produced 2 signs, one for the top of my head and one for my cab, reading:

"do not remove any cables from this amp. if you do not know what the word impedance means, and how to calculate it, step the f*** back."

i make this point quite clear, in an albeit somewhat friendlier manner, to any other bassists and the sound guy at each gig.

[ahpook]

my thoughts are this:

even if the venue/management/whatever have told you that the headline band were providing amps and drum kit, i'd still get in contact with them to verify it and say 'thank you very much'. this also avoids any confusion about what 'backline' is or isn't.

loan of drum kit (to my mind, and to every drummer i've played with) does [i]not[/i] include cymbals and snare - each drummer should bring their own breakables.

pints and a hearty handshake are always offered to whoever gear you've borrowed. that's not gig ettiquette, that's just common decency.

i think the band the OP was playing with was being a little precious...but a wee bit of communication goes a long way.

Edited October 4, 2009 by ahpook

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Musky' post='615862' date='Oct 3 2009, 05:12 PM']Interesting that so many people don't consider heads to be part of the backline (at least for purposes of kit sharing). I've never come across this before and I've got to admit that if a venue or band said they were providing backline I'd assume this meant both the amp and cab.[/quote]
+1

[Crikey!]

backline i take to mean as cabs + drums shells.

We've had confusion before so if we're lending gear we specify cabs + drum shells ONLY.

We never lend out our breakables and expect other bands to bring theirs. Unless we've arranged it in advance. I'll let people use my head if i know them and they've contacted me about it beforehand. We always use our own breakables. Usually our full backline.

speak to whoevers gear you use before and after you play, make sure its alright and thank them, thank them onstage too and especially if you're supporting, its a good chance to build up some excitement about the next band.

Any touring band that lends me a cab can come sleep on my floor. I had bands ask to use my head while we were touring and they just got a straight up no. but i lent my cab out nearly every night.

[yituool]

I just recently experienced what the angered band had experienced.

My band were playing a gig with 5 other bands, and everyone was expected to bring their own amps, so I did. Well, NONE of the other bass players bothered to bring an amp, so I had to use mine as a backline. None of them asked me before using my amp, but I didn't really mind (only one thanked me for it at the end). But what did annoy me a bit was when other bassists started fiddling around with the amp, messing about with the EQ, which I had fine tuned for my own sound, and even upping the gain far too much, so that the peak overload light was flashing like a squirrel on crystal meth. When this happened, I explained to the bassist what he's done wrong, and asked him not to do it again (not angrily), but I would not've considered writing a message of complaint on myspace the next day. However it did teach me that if you are going to borrow someone else's amp, it's only fair that you should leave the settings as they are, and that should be part of gig etiquette.

Edited October 11, 2009 by yituool

[Les]

Got this particular nitemare to come. We're doing a big charity do with 3 other bands at the end of November, don't know much about them, couple are quite young original/cover bands so might not have much in the way of gear.

They're all using our PA and I'm not sure what's been sorted out backline wise.

I just know this is going to be a pain. As we're "headlining" for want of a better word, plus we are the only ones being paid I don't want our sound ballsed up.

Want to be helpful, especially for the younger bands but I'm starting to dread this.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I once did a gig with a couple of other bands and as we were headlining, the other bassists used my ashdown stack. It was only a small pub, so the bass didn't go through the PA. The girl (employed by the venue) running the PA twice asked me to turn down the bass amp while one of the other bass players was playing, as she didn't know which one was the volume knob. I felt such an ar$e doing that - what do I care if his band sounded awful due to him being too loud?

[Steve Dixon]

if a bass player in another band asks me nicely if he can use my rig, then I'll usually let them... I take them up on stage and show them the basics (it's a rack so it'd be easy for a numpty to mess up), check whether their bass is active or passive so we can put the 'pad' in etc, show them where the EQ knobs are etc

I did a gig recently, and I was kind enough to do the above, and I told the guy DON'T turn the power amp channels up beyond 22 because it'll CLIP... if the red light starts flashing, just knock it back slightly... we're talking about 800 watts of bass at that volume, so it's not exactly quiet prior to the power amp clipping light coming on...

I came in halfway through the set... both channels' clipping lights were blinking away merrily with every single note... that's the last time i'll help THAT guy out if I ever share a bill with him...

grr

oh, and my amp is NOT for the sound guy to lend out... if I thought that was gonna happen i'd lock the rack case until it was time for our band to go on

Edited October 13, 2009 by Steve Dixon

[witterth]

I had a situation in the early 90s where a band I was playing for was supporting an "also ran" "madchester" band who had some reasonable, little success but nothing big time!kwim?,
both bands had good deals at the time BTW (and we were no better! if not worse! and were certainy support) but at the time there were quite big(ish) gigs involved,any way at a gig halfway through the 10 dater tour, in glasgow (I think) the bass player of the main turn
was having problems with his Jazz(It simply and strangley wouldn't work, now I dont care) and as I being a more of a "muso" head ( which I have since found out he found "amusing") had a stingray fretted&fretless and status,all of which I was using for the gig. d tunes ect.
Anyway on discovering his own guitar was Fcuked He helped his 'effin' himself to my fretted stingray for the sound check AND subsequent gig , now our tour manager and theirs sought me out as I watched him "take" my guitar said they "hoped it was ok" and .. oh well.... I said it was cause I thought It was the right thing to do to help out.....
but from him?.... not a word! thanks? beer from his rider? not even an offer of replacment strings!! in fact one of them asked if I wanted a picture of the Git playing.... I ...declined...the .. the...
giftless poltroon.
Now amps cabs I can take, but your guitar without asking yourself well .. bad one
You know who you are if you read this..... doubt it... Because its probably too "muso" for you.
Hes called "Justi#" BTW...HA Ha very indie rock n roll "mondays" is that!

god I feel better for that.. and the moral children, is ALLWAYS ask, and do it youself. dont leave it to someonelse.... you'll just look BAD
(not in a "good" way BAD )

Edited October 13, 2009 by witterth

[MythSte]

If a band provides backline, I'd expect drums (minus snare, pedal and symbols) and bass amp. Unless otherwise stated. this has been the case for most every gig ive ever played, and ive played my fair share!

[Zombywoof]

In my experience, it's the done thing to use the headline act's drum kit (except cymbals, snare and pedals) and bass gear. I always try to check with the bassist beforehand, if I can't contact him then I'll take mine as a precaution and ask him on the night. Never had a problem. I always ask regards mucking about with EQ and such and always, always, always buy him a pint. It's the Bristol way!

[Doddy]

I have a problem with gear sharing. I always carry my gear with me and expect others to do the same.
There are only 2 or 3 people who I would lend my gear to.
Even if I know that there is backline 'provided',I take my own amp-and usually use it.
I once did a gig where,during soundcheck,a group of lads walked in and told us that they were supporting us,
and where do they plug in. Apparently,the promoter had told them-and not us- that they were opening for us and could use are
gear. Wrong!!!
We told them to bring their stuff in,only to find out that they had only brought their guitars with them. Anyway,they went
back home without playing.
No one should be expected to let other bands use their stuff.I don't care if you are 'headlining' (an ego boosting way of
saying on last) or whatever,if you know what you are doing it only takes a few minutes to change the stage over.

[MythSte]

[quote name='Doddy' post='625675' date='Oct 14 2009, 02:18 AM'][b]if you know what you are doing[/b] it only takes a few minutes to change the stage over.[/quote]

There in lies the problem im afraid! I dont think its unreasonable for drums and bass amp to be supplied by headlining band. I think your well and truly in the minority as far as always using your own gear is concerned. Especially if your talking drums and all.

[Geoff]

Backline to me means lending out drum shells and cabs and I would never expect to use anyone elses amp (mine's got my sound at the end of the day!) I can understand lending out cabs, especially when other bands have to travel far, but amps and drum breakables can easily be fit in any car.

I really dont get why anyone would be playing live if they dont own thier own gear, seems totally stupid to me.

[woodyratm]

I am happy to let another band use my Cab if they ask.
But there is no chance i'm letting another band use my head or bass. Been burned with that one before.

Eg spend ages getting a sound i like, for some band to come mess with all my settings and EQ.

Oh yeah couple that with not being thanked for using the gear or helping me load the stuff out. Yes thats right just stand and watch me drag my cab up stairs on my own.

If they ask me, i'm happy to let them use the cab though.

[Doddy]

[quote name='MythSte' post='625689' date='Oct 14 2009, 03:22 AM']There in lies the problem im afraid! I dont think its unreasonable for drums and bass amp to be supplied by headlining band. I think your well and truly in the minority as far as always using your own gear is concerned. Especially if your talking drums and all.[/quote]


I do think that it is unreasonable for the last band on to supply the amps and drums.
If you do a gig,you should have your own gear-it's pretty simple. I know guys who have supplied their
backline and had it trashed. Forget that!! I don't want to even risk it.
As far as drummers having to supply the kit minus 'breakables'-I disagree with that too.Every part
of the kit can be classed as 'breakable'(Heads and Hardware especially).
Carry your own gear and you can do what you want with it. No one should be expected to
supply their gear for other bands to use.

What it is ultimately down to,is lazy sound engineers who can't be bothered with the hassle of
a couple of plugs.